Guard (121.5) police get it wrong
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Slam dunk
Is that perhaps because only one country provides a unit staffed with controllers and equipment dedicated to providing a service solely for pilots in emergency and for those pilots wishing to practice emergencies?
You might be interested to know that by far the most common call made by the D&D controllers at London Centre is to CAT requesting them to go to a new freq as they are not listening out on the freq that should be on.
This Practise Pan bashing is so tedious, there have been numerous surveys & the amount of training calls is minimal (and vastly outweighed by the rubbish flying around on guard) and decreasing in the present finacial climate.
DD
Is that perhaps because only one country provides a unit staffed with controllers and equipment dedicated to providing a service solely for pilots in emergency and for those pilots wishing to practice emergencies?
You might be interested to know that by far the most common call made by the D&D controllers at London Centre is to CAT requesting them to go to a new freq as they are not listening out on the freq that should be on.
This Practise Pan bashing is so tedious, there have been numerous surveys & the amount of training calls is minimal (and vastly outweighed by the rubbish flying around on guard) and decreasing in the present finacial climate.
DD
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121.5Mhz guards
Chris Higgins
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Six pages of thread on how to use 121.5...and judgments on whether or not an undercarriage problem, that might have severed a hydraulic line and ruptured a wing panel, might constitute a "real" emergency or not. I think that some people might be in a hurry to judge and short on the bigger picture here. The "on guard" crap has been going on for the last 25 years and seems to be a by product of bored pilots in automated cockpits with nothing better to get their panties in a wad over.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Six pages of thread on how to use 121.5...and judgments on whether or not an undercarriage problem, that might have severed a hydraulic line and ruptured a wing panel, might constitute a "real" emergency or not. I think that some people might be in a hurry to judge and short on the bigger picture here. The "on guard" crap has been going on for the last 25 years and seems to be a by product of bored pilots in automated cockpits with nothing better to get their panties in a wad over.
Yesterday, 17:26 #Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
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Location: Europe
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Guys, once again. If you hear someone talking in a 'foreign' language on 121.5...don't immediately assume it is chatter and do not shout 'GUARD'. As I overheared today, a Spanish speaking pilot was so obviously trying to contact Barcelona ATC for a very valid reason, just to be interupted by 'ON GUAAAARD'.
Just don't.
Very true, those sky gods who think that international aviation is their domain . A sad and pathetic bunch!
Yesterday on 121.5 there was somebody who'd got into deteriorating weather conditions in Bedfordshire. She'd sensibly called up D&D and was getting vectors and traffic information; sounded quite stressed. Every now and then a voice from the other side of the Atlantic would chip in with "you're on guard" or "stop talking on guard", even when it was the D&D controller who was speaking.
121.5 has a proper use as an urgency/emergency frequency... It doesn't have to be kept silent all the time otherwise what's the point of having it?
Listen before you "butt in", please, it might be a real emergency and one day it might be you who's desperately trying to make contact and having your message drowned out by the guard police...
121.5 has a proper use as an urgency/emergency frequency... It doesn't have to be kept silent all the time otherwise what's the point of having it?
Listen before you "butt in", please, it might be a real emergency and one day it might be you who's desperately trying to make contact and having your message drowned out by the guard police...
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Hmmm, between the 'guard police' and the 'practise PAN's' and the 'idle chit-chat', there can be only one logical solution...de-select 121.5 on the audio panel.
The Flight Engineer or First Officer can monitor if they so desire...most don't, for the afore mentioned reasons.
Works for me.
Arabian Gulf excepted.
The Flight Engineer or First Officer can monitor if they so desire...most don't, for the afore mentioned reasons.
Works for me.
Arabian Gulf excepted.
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Gentlemen you profess to be professional pilots...................
Some of you need to act your age & not your shoe size!
411a. What a glorious example you must set to your crew
Some of you need to act your age & not your shoe size!
411a. What a glorious example you must set to your crew
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Yesterday on 121.5 there was somebody who'd got into deteriorating weather conditions in Bedfordshire. She'd sensibly called up D&D and was getting vectors and traffic information; sounded quite stressed. Every now and then a voice from the other side of the Atlantic would chip in with "you're on guard" or "stop talking on guard", even when it was the D&D controller who was speaking.
For the vast majority of heavy metal flying around, you're almost certainly likely to be talking to an ATC unit. If you have an emergency, who are you going to tell ?? The ATC guy you are currently in 2 way contact with and knows where you are, what type of aircraft, where you're going to, plus all the traffic around you, or by using 121.5 ?? I'd suggest the former.
So why the big need to actively monitor 121.5, and chip in whenever it is being used, in airspace where there are ample communications if you have an emergency ? SOPS may say you have to do so (the monitor bit at least), but what do the SOPs wish to acheive ?
The only reason I can see for CAT monitoring 121.5 in Europe is so that we can track down traffic who is no longer on the frequency that they should be. Maybe we should provide a dedicated frequency for that issue and leave 121.5 to those who really need it. CAT could then monitor their new frequency which will only be used to tell you that the fighters are about to be launched against you if you don't get in touch with who you should be. The flight deck crews will then be able to enjoy their cheese board in peace, simply monitoring the 'naughty boy' frequency on box 2 as part of their SOPs, and leaving people on 121.5 to deal with emergencies or practices.
Job done
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I'd heard that as well. I think it is time to start identifying these Guard Police idiots using the automated fixer service available in D&D. If there is no doubt as to their identity, then the authorities should be raising formal complaints with the aircraft's State of Registry. Maybe then the penny will drop that their interventions are unwelcome and hampering proper use of the frequency.
Sadly this is not new. Nearly twenty years ago, I was in a Canberra over Europe & we lost all electrics except the standby radio.(Only worked on 121.5/243.0) So whilst talking to our No.2 & ATC, some (American) person kept butting in to tell us we were "on guard".............................
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Agree with PPRuNe Radar, however I do have a couple of points -
Firstly if people did not use 121.5 incorrectly in the first place, then it would not be so busy that crews found it a distraction to monitor.
Secondly - I thought we were talking about professional crews here? How about selecting 121.5 when you are in the cruise i.e. when your workload is lower? You could turn it down/off during take off an landings. Are professional crews really saying that it would be too difficult to monitor in the cruise?
If you hear transmissions on Guard a professional would listen out first, it's easy enough to work out if a two way conversation is going on, even if you can only hear one side of it.
Listening out before jumping in with 'you're on Guard' would also give you the opportunity to check what is being said and whether it is someone merely chatting or whether it is actually being used for what it is set up for i.e. emergencies or practices.
121.5 is monitored on the ground in the UK by people who are professional, however pilots can assist because coverage might not always be great, but listen out first it's not difficult!
And to claim it's too difficult to have in the background in the cruise is laughable.
Firstly if people did not use 121.5 incorrectly in the first place, then it would not be so busy that crews found it a distraction to monitor.
Secondly - I thought we were talking about professional crews here? How about selecting 121.5 when you are in the cruise i.e. when your workload is lower? You could turn it down/off during take off an landings. Are professional crews really saying that it would be too difficult to monitor in the cruise?
If you hear transmissions on Guard a professional would listen out first, it's easy enough to work out if a two way conversation is going on, even if you can only hear one side of it.
Listening out before jumping in with 'you're on Guard' would also give you the opportunity to check what is being said and whether it is someone merely chatting or whether it is actually being used for what it is set up for i.e. emergencies or practices.
121.5 is monitored on the ground in the UK by people who are professional, however pilots can assist because coverage might not always be great, but listen out first it's not difficult!
And to claim it's too difficult to have in the background in the cruise is laughable.
Last edited by anotherthing; 2nd Jun 2008 at 08:26.
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Yup. Professional crews just get on with the job, and don't worry about the nonsense heard on 121.5 or wherever. It really isn't earth-shattering stuff. Bigger things to think about, folks.
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This thread beggars belief. (but now I'm adding to it, so not quite sure what that means!)
Hands up all those who have never made a mistake/switch pigz......must be great to be perfect. Personally, I think New York Centre very much enjoyed my description of a sunny day over Manhattan and the likely conditions for the crossing some years ago.....
Also, with some 11 hours under my belt, I was mightily grateful for the training fix on 121.5 (and also on 243.0 at a slightly later stage if memory serves me correctly).
Surely courtesy is the watchword? If it's a quick tx on the wrong freq and then goes away, no harm done. If it's the persistent call to ops etc, a polite reminder might be appropriate. If it's continuous light, occasional moderate, chat, leave it to the professionals on the ground.
Just a thought. Oh, and 411a et al, you really might like to keep monitoring it, lest one of Her Majesty's finest (or maybe an F3) decides to come and have a little looky.
(but now I'm adding to it, so not quite sure what that means!)Hands up all those who have never made a mistake/switch pigz......must be great to be perfect. Personally, I think New York Centre very much enjoyed my description of a sunny day over Manhattan and the likely conditions for the crossing some years ago.....
Also, with some 11 hours under my belt, I was mightily grateful for the training fix on 121.5 (and also on 243.0 at a slightly later stage if memory serves me correctly).
Surely courtesy is the watchword? If it's a quick tx on the wrong freq and then goes away, no harm done. If it's the persistent call to ops etc, a polite reminder might be appropriate. If it's continuous light, occasional moderate, chat, leave it to the professionals on the ground.
Just a thought. Oh, and 411a et al, you really might like to keep monitoring it, lest one of Her Majesty's finest (or maybe an F3) decides to come and have a little looky.
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Redskin Blue : "we are approaching target confirm 2 o'clock FL310"
"Redskin Blue that is affirm reported L1011 no radio contact for 15 minutes entered Maastricht UAC 10 minutes ago"
Redskin Blue : "Roger, Tristar is confirmed , closing in.
"Redskin Blue confirm cockpit safe?"
Redskin Blue : "Standby one , I confirm old Tristar , lightly damaged hull , freighter , see crates with one day chickens behind last 10, no 12 windows stand by there's passengers as well in front part of aircraft I see quite a few bewilderd unconfirmed passengers.
"Redskin Blue roger that old Tristar combo pax freighter say pax state"
Redskin Blue : "pax not repeat not hostile, bad shaped aircraft , aileron is flapping a bit and leading edge flap seems loose on this side as well, stand by closing in on flight deck"
"Redskin Blue roger" -light background rumble and sounds of laughter-
Redskin Blue : "Wait there's three guy's in the flight deck smoking Havana's !"
"Redskin Blue that's 411A allright , standard ops return to base".
"Redskin Blue that is affirm reported L1011 no radio contact for 15 minutes entered Maastricht UAC 10 minutes ago"
Redskin Blue : "Roger, Tristar is confirmed , closing in.
"Redskin Blue confirm cockpit safe?"
Redskin Blue : "Standby one , I confirm old Tristar , lightly damaged hull , freighter , see crates with one day chickens behind last 10, no 12 windows stand by there's passengers as well in front part of aircraft I see quite a few bewilderd unconfirmed passengers.
"Redskin Blue roger that old Tristar combo pax freighter say pax state"
Redskin Blue : "pax not repeat not hostile, bad shaped aircraft , aileron is flapping a bit and leading edge flap seems loose on this side as well, stand by closing in on flight deck"
"Redskin Blue roger" -light background rumble and sounds of laughter-
Redskin Blue : "Wait there's three guy's in the flight deck smoking Havana's !"
"Redskin Blue that's 411A allright , standard ops return to base".
411A: Hmmm, between the 'guard police' and the 'practise PAN's' and the 'idle chit-chat', there can be only one logical solution...de-select 121.5 on the audio panel.
The Flight Engineer or First Officer can monitor if they so desire...most don't, for the afore mentioned reasons.
Works for me.
Arabian Gulf excepted.
The Flight Engineer or First Officer can monitor if they so desire...most don't, for the afore mentioned reasons.
Works for me.
Arabian Gulf excepted.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Yesterday on 121.5 there was somebody who'd got into deteriorating weather conditions in Bedfordshire. She'd sensibly called up D&D and was getting vectors and traffic information; sounded quite stressed. Every now and then a voice from the other side of the Atlantic would chip in with "you're on guard" or "stop talking on guard", even when it was the D&D controller who was speaking.
121.5 has a proper use as an urgency/emergency frequency... It doesn't have to be kept silent all the time otherwise what's the point of having it?
Listen before you "butt in", please, it might be a real emergency and one day it might be you who's desperately trying to make contact and having your message drowned out by the guard police...
121.5 has a proper use as an urgency/emergency frequency... It doesn't have to be kept silent all the time otherwise what's the point of having it?
Listen before you "butt in", please, it might be a real emergency and one day it might be you who's desperately trying to make contact and having your message drowned out by the guard police...
FW - you have a pm.
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Roidelstein & G-SXTY thank you very much. For some reason the new thread has been moved to Private Flying instead of being left here as had been discussed and agreed with P Pop last night. 
I'm not sure the relevant people will read it there which is a shame. They really were an absolute menace and caused a lot of stress - I worked in a very stressful job so I'm used to working on the "cope now, panic after it's all been sorted" principle so I don't tend to get upset too easily but they were making life extremely difficult. I hope D&D takes it further.
I'm not sure the relevant people will read it there which is a shame. They really were an absolute menace and caused a lot of stress - I worked in a very stressful job so I'm used to working on the "cope now, panic after it's all been sorted" principle so I don't tend to get upset too easily but they were making life extremely difficult. I hope D&D takes it further.
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It is really rather simple. D&D can easily fix anyone who transmits on 121.5 and they should report any unauthorised transmission to the CAA. There is a bit in the ANO about endangering an aircraft:
This should be pointed-out to the so-called professional pilots who take it upon themselves to police guard. I wonder what the WWII pilot thought about the pathetic behaviour of our modern day aviators.
Endangering safety of an aircraft
73 A person shall not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person therein.
73 A person shall not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person therein.
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If you are not being addressed to , please say nothing on 121.5.
If you transmit on 121.5 identify yourself! That is good airmanship.
Imagine if your " on guard " trasnmission blocked the frecuency for 20 min due to a stuck mike! Would you feel stupid.... Get a life guys!
The other day someone said: You are on guard!
The repply couldn't be better: So are you!
If you transmit on 121.5 identify yourself! That is good airmanship.
Imagine if your " on guard " trasnmission blocked the frecuency for 20 min due to a stuck mike! Would you feel stupid.... Get a life guys!
The other day someone said: You are on guard!
The repply couldn't be better: So are you!