Guard (121.5) police get it wrong

[PENKO]

I can live with the argumnet that most calls on 121.5 are pilots who call ops without checking which frequency the actually use. However these asre spaced evenly over the whole week.

Practice pans may be a minority, but they are heavily concentrated in the weekends, especially on sunny sundays... which make them a bigger problem all round.

[Final 3 Greens]

Practice pans may be a minority, but they are heavily concentrated in the weekends, especially on sunny sundays... which make them a bigger problem all round.

You just don't get it, do you Penko?

Practiec Pan and Training Fix are recognised practices in the UK and supported by the UK authorities.

And they don't care about your opinion - and neither do I.

Please go away.

[ShyTorque]

with all the UK prats calling for practise PANS at all hours.
A pox on these folks.

I suggest the 'prats' are those who cannot understand the system or cope with managing their radio volume, even when multi-crew. Perhaps these folk could find a job where their intellect and aptitude aren't so badly challenged.

[in my last airline]

Did anyone hear the muslim call to prayer on 121.5 a couple of weeks ago around sunset in Rammadan? Nobody said anything, now thats unusual!
(Over mid west France somewhere). I'm not joking by the way.

[Capt H Peacock]

They were there again today, obstructing a frequency collect call which happened to be conducted in French.

Once again for those who seem to have difficulty with the concept:

Do not transmit on 121.5 unless you are in distress or have an important message concerning the regularity of flight.

ps or play your ipod - you tosser

[dont overfil]

This is unbelievably infantile. You must accept the rules of the country you are in or near. If you are a citizen of that country there is a proceedure to get these rules changed if it is deemed neccessary, if you are not, shut up!
Christ this is supposed to be a forum for professionals. I would not dream of criticising another countries rules.
DO.

[niknak]

Possibly misuse of the frequency a few weeks ago, all the same it did make me smile:

"London Centre this is ****05 (non UK operator), what is the frequency?"

"****05, this is London Centre on 121.5, what frequency do you want?"

"I don't know Sir, that is why I am asking you..".

In all seriousness though, we monitor the frequency on the ground and we must hear our colleagues at D & D politely ask pilots if they require assistance several times a day because said crews are not observing correct procedures.

[ManaAdaSystem]

"You must accept the rules of the country you are in or near."

Ditto!

[Foxy Loxy]

Just for the record....

On the day that DX called D&D, I happened to be sat bored at work (RAF Wyton) listening to 121.5. I heard the whole thing from start to finish. I was sat there bored because of unforecast crap wx, which is what caught DX out in the same area. I was appalled at the "You're on Guard!" calls broadcast when it was utterly obvious that she was in difficulties that day. There can be NO excuse for the so-called Guard Polizei to behave in the way that they did. One day, perhaps, they could well cost someone their life simply by blocking out an essential transmission from D&D.

Good on you, DX

[Reimers]

You just don't get it, do you Penko?

Practiec Pan and Training Fix are recognised practices in the UK and supported by the UK authorities.

And they don't care about your opinion - and neither do I.

Please go away.

Neither do you get it!
Here on PPrune some people like to discuss things they find interesting, care about or find troublesome. Some posts contribute more than others, some merely state again something that was said some pages ago.

If you don't care, why don't you stay away yourself? As this thread now has close to 30000 views, some find it interesting. Several pages of posts have accumulated, and you just pop up and shout at someone who is just as entitled to his opinion as everyone else?

I also find guard annoying to listen to, because of all the noise. Half a century ago someone else found HF a pain to monitor and he invented SELCAL, so that aircraft could pe paged individually. Perhaps today with more and more aircraft not monitoring 121.5 at a reasonable level, purchasing a SELCAL tone emitting device would enable ATC centers to page aircraft they can't reach otherwise.

[golfyankeesierra]

I also get very annoyed by practice pans over the UK, but I also accept the fact it's an established procedure over there and as such we have to live with it.

What I don't understand that so many uk pilots go to lengths to defend it , but must know that all the talking on "the other set" only increase the chances to miss transmissions on the primary and also cause a lot of pilots to turn the volume down on 121,5 (I do, over the UK).

Although I think the UK controllers are the best in the world, little things like this (and f.i. the pre-WW2 quality of the transmitters/mic's, and ground infrastructure on airports, to name a few) sometimes make me feel I am not in Europe

[Lurking123]

Regardless, it is completely un-professional for any pilot to scream "you're on guard" within half a second of any transmission without actually listening to the content of that transmission.

Guys, start behaving like professionals and maybe then you can have a go at the UK procedures.

[doubledolphins]

Just a thought.. When the guard police say "You're on guard!"when they are clearly not in distess them selves who tells them off?

"you're on guard"
"No, you're on guard"
"you're on guard"
"you're on guard"
"you're on guard"
"you're on guard"
"No I'm on guard, and so's my wife!"

Sorry

[Final 3 Greens]

and you just pop up and shout at someone who is just as entitled to his opinion as everyone else?

I don't agree with some things that are laws in other countries.

However, I respect the other state's right to make these laws and abide by them when in country.

What I am seeing from people like PENKO and you is UK bashing. When you are a UK citizen you are entitled to have an opinion (for you elect the people who make the laws), until then you merely have an opinion, whch is rather different.

I am a holder of a UK R/T licence and am sick of hearing t*ssers on 121.5 clogging up the important emergency frequency with cr*p.

We have all seen the example of DX Wombat and the so called professionals who engage in this guard policing are an utter disgrace, doing their colleagues no favours in creating an impression that the word "professional" relates more to pay than behaviour.

The CAA stats show that the majority of 121.5 transmission come from CAT, the D&D people need the practice and the authorities set the rules.

GYS

You say

What I don't understand that so many uk pilots go to lengths to defend it

Probably because we all know people (or know of people) who have been in distress and then been helped by this unique system.

I appreciate your open minded attitude and respect your professional approach.

[ChristiaanJ]

golfyankeesierra,

I take it from your remarks, that you do not have the equivalent of D&D in the Netherlands.
So who do you call when you're "in the sh!t" over there, as DX was?

[Reimers]

What I am seeing from people like PENKO and you is UK bashing. When you are a UK citizen you are entitled to have an opinion (for you elect the people who make the laws), until then you merely have an opinion, whch is rather different.

I have absolutely no idea why me stating that others may voice their opinion on this topic constitutes UK bashing.
Shouting "on guard" does not help things, but voicing one's opinion here might help everyone understanding the other side better. I suggested some way that ATC can get in contact with planes that tune 121.5 but don't listen in. Yes, this is just an opinion, but voiced on this site in a friendlier way than your "go away", which is more of a matter of "bashing" everyone that is not your opinion.

[anengineer]

Surely, after ten pages of debate and quoting of regulations etc, it just boils down to the simple fact that some people get a self-important buzz from telling others off. That little moment of feeling superior is what it's all about for them. It's certainly not restricted to pilots, you see it everywhere. Those that get too addicted to the buzz end up as traffic wardens.

[cockney steve]

As this thread now has close to 30000 views, some find it interesting

and, hopefully, some of the viewers have learned that it's better to remain silent and let people wonder if you're stupid, rather tan open your mouth and dispel any doubts.

Yesterday afternoon, two 2 Irish commercial a/c discussed photo opportunities and exchanged names on 121.5 in the eastern atlantic.

In which case a timely reprimand would have been in order.......but I'm sure they would have shut up the instant someone else started to transmit on frequency.


When in Rome.........

[Out Of Trim]

411A Doesn't get it either!

411A - Guess what's going to happen when you're in desperate need of help and call out on 121.5 - about 6 yank prat guard police will shout out you're on guard and you won't get any assistance.

I'd like the guard police types to be intercepted - ordered to land and heavily fined.

Perhaps the problem would then go away!

[Final 3 Greens]

but voicing one's opinion here might help everyone understanding the other side better.

There is no other side here.

Flying through UK airspace is a privilege and requires compliance to UK laws.

If people don't like UK laws, then I suggest they bid for other routes.