Guard (121.5) police get it wrong
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Guard (121.5) police get it wrong
Flying around Europe we get used to pilots using 121.5 for wrongly contacting handling, chatting to other company etc and invariably a split second later an American voice shouts " You're on guard ".
However last Thursday crossing northern Germany D-**TP transmitted a Mayday with with undercarriage problem.
A discussion with controller ensued and then all of a sudden the usual American voice shouts " You're on guard ".
We were surprised at this but the controller said quick as a flash " shut up this is a genuine emergency".
We monitored this for another twenty minutes or so and astonishingly several more American voices were heard to say the same thing.
Eventually the controller told everybody to be quiet.
We descended and missed the outcome but hope that the crew and D-**TP had a succesful resolution to their emergency.
However last Thursday crossing northern Germany D-**TP transmitted a Mayday with with undercarriage problem.
A discussion with controller ensued and then all of a sudden the usual American voice shouts " You're on guard ".
We were surprised at this but the controller said quick as a flash " shut up this is a genuine emergency".
We monitored this for another twenty minutes or so and astonishingly several more American voices were heard to say the same thing.
Eventually the controller told everybody to be quiet.
We descended and missed the outcome but hope that the crew and D-**TP had a succesful resolution to their emergency.
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Half the problem is that the 'listeners in' are on speakers and only hear a part of the conversation so it becomes automatic to jump in and say, "you are on guard". I believe that one member of crew should always have at least one ear on their headphones monitoring the R/T.
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I was asked recently by ATC to relay a message on 121.5 to another aircraft that had lost contact and a Speedbird came up and said "Why dont you shutup you are on guard". The half whits they give a radio licence to beggers belief sometimes.
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Some of the Guard Police need their handcuffs attached tightly around their necks!! 
Sometimes it can be useful to politely remind someone on 121.5 trying 2 - 3 times for the handling company; if you really have to say anything, try - "You are on 121.5" - don't say "On Guard" as that can sound like "Go ahead" & you will get the full handling message!!
For this case though, very curious - why a Mayday for an undercarriage problem?? Surely a PAN would have been more appropriate as something that will affect the safety of the aircraft, a Mayday transmission is for circumstances affecting the aircraft right now. Handling or performance difficulties maybe?
Sometimes it can be useful to politely remind someone on 121.5 trying 2 - 3 times for the handling company; if you really have to say anything, try - "You are on 121.5" - don't say "On Guard" as that can sound like "Go ahead" & you will get the full handling message!!
For this case though, very curious - why a Mayday for an undercarriage problem?? Surely a PAN would have been more appropriate as something that will affect the safety of the aircraft, a Mayday transmission is for circumstances affecting the aircraft right now. Handling or performance difficulties maybe?
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Isn't it the same with the slightly more legitimate 'blocked' call? Half of the time this 'blocked' call re-blocks the previously blocked controller who obviously realises that something went wrong with his transmission..followed by another 'blocked'.
By the way, I always thought the guard police tend to have the same cultural background as the infamous Practice-Pan Brigade
By the way, I always thought the guard police tend to have the same cultural background as the infamous Practice-Pan Brigade
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Originally Posted by essexboy
I was asked recently by ATC to relay a message on 121.5 to another aircraft that had lost contact and a Speedbird came up and said "Why dont you shutup you are on guard". The half whits they give a radio licence to beggers belief sometimes.
What is even more irritating (and possibly dangerous) is the chimp(s) who think it's amusing to transmit "go ahead" immediately after somebody has made an inadvertant transmission on 121.5 to, for instance, their operators. Not amusing, not big, not clever.
On top of that, there's no pleasing some people: practise pan at 1740 today - after being told by London Centre that his position indicates south west of Ashford by 4 miles, fella asks for a steer to MAY and complains that the controller told him he was 26 miles from MAY when his GPS says it's 24 miles.
On top of that, there's no pleasing some people: practise pan at 1740 today - after being told by London Centre that his position indicates south west of Ashford by 4 miles, fella asks for a steer to MAY and complains that the controller told him he was 26 miles from MAY when his GPS says it's 24 miles.
Last edited by Il Duce; 17th May 2008 at 17:00.
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Isn't it the same with the slightly more legitimate 'blocked' call? Half of the time this 'blocked' call re-blocks the previously blocked controller who obviously realises that something went wrong with his transmission..followed by another 'blocked'.
By the way, I always thought the guard police tend to have the same cultural background as the infamous Practice-Pan Brigade
By the way, I always thought the guard police tend to have the same cultural background as the infamous Practice-Pan Brigade
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It would be trivial to modify the software on modern radios to alert pilots when they're transmitting on 121.5. But then, there are any number of possible technical fixes for what is really a matter of self-discipline and professional conduct.
It would be even cheaper to remind pilots to listen to what's going on before assuming the role of spectral guardian. First rule of operating a transmitter: listen first.
And aren't people supposed to identify themselves when first transmitting? It's standard procedure on most voice radio comms.
If none of that works, there are always anti-radiation AMRAAMs.
R
It would be even cheaper to remind pilots to listen to what's going on before assuming the role of spectral guardian. First rule of operating a transmitter: listen first.
And aren't people supposed to identify themselves when first transmitting? It's standard procedure on most voice radio comms.
If none of that works, there are always anti-radiation AMRAAMs.
R
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If the pilots who say "you are on guard" are known as the "Guard Police," are the people who 'police' the "Guard Police" known as the "Guard Police, Police?"
What do Americans sound like on the radio?
If an Italian pilot went to school in the UK and learned to speak English there, does he then become a Brit when he speaks English on the radio?
If it makes you feel any better these "Guard Police" twits do the same think here in the states.
Hmmmmm.
What do Americans sound like on the radio?
If an Italian pilot went to school in the UK and learned to speak English there, does he then become a Brit when he speaks English on the radio?
If it makes you feel any better these "Guard Police" twits do the same think here in the states.
Hmmmmm.
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I believe we all can agree on some of the fundamental problems on 121,5.
The french need to stop using it as a handling frequency.
The germans need to stop interrupting all conversations with the usual "You're on guard" bull****.
Thirdly, the english need to stop, or at least cut down on the amount of practice calls.
Just my tuppence worth... 
The french need to stop using it as a handling frequency.
The germans need to stop interrupting all conversations with the usual "You're on guard" bull****. Thirdly, the english need to stop, or at least cut down on the amount of practice calls. Just my tuppence worth...
PENKO.
Quote >the same cultural background as the infamous Practice-Pan Brigade < unquote.
I'm just a little concerned at the arrogance of the inference made above.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Practice Pan/Fix on 121.5 is a legitimate R/T call in the UK when teaching students Lost Procedure. D&D are quite happy to oblige if the freq. is not occupied. You see, the UK has more than its fair share of controlled airspace compared with other countries.
Perhaps, as occasionally happens, you would prefer to arrive late in your hotel bar, having been delayed by some poor sod who didn't call for a fix when uncertain of position.
He/she then spent the next 10-15 minutes wandering around in the TMA, having not been taught a simple means of avoiding trouble.
Never been lost yourself, old son ?
Rgds, Sleeve. (Let's just say I've been around a bit.)
Quote >the same cultural background as the infamous Practice-Pan Brigade < unquote.
I'm just a little concerned at the arrogance of the inference made above.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Practice Pan/Fix on 121.5 is a legitimate R/T call in the UK when teaching students Lost Procedure. D&D are quite happy to oblige if the freq. is not occupied. You see, the UK has more than its fair share of controlled airspace compared with other countries.
Perhaps, as occasionally happens, you would prefer to arrive late in your hotel bar, having been delayed by some poor sod who didn't call for a fix when uncertain of position.
He/she then spent the next 10-15 minutes wandering around in the TMA, having not been taught a simple means of avoiding trouble.
Never been lost yourself, old son ?
Rgds, Sleeve. (Let's just say I've been around a bit.)
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and who is the guy who keeps burping...... is the other guy in the cabin or are they both having a giggle/competiition as to who has the best burp. Someone is obviously having more fun than me.
It always seems to be in spain did'nt realize the spanish had such a sense of humour.
Never had the unpleasure of flying with a 'guard'. Wonder if they are aware that 99% of the guys sitting next to them must be thinking 'A hole'
It always seems to be in spain did'nt realize the spanish had such a sense of humour.
Never had the unpleasure of flying with a 'guard'. Wonder if they are aware that 99% of the guys sitting next to them must be thinking 'A hole'
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Of course. How else apart from an often congested primary ATC frequencey can you do this?
It's standard to pop in a quick, Qantas ____ can you come up on 123.45 please? Simple, quick, doesnt hurt anyone.
Half the controllers in Europe use 121.5 to try to track heavies on the wrong primary frequency too btw.
It's standard to pop in a quick, Qantas ____ can you come up on 123.45 please? Simple, quick, doesnt hurt anyone.
Half the controllers in Europe use 121.5 to try to track heavies on the wrong primary frequency too btw.
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Sleeve Wing wrote
Don't worry sleeve, no arrogance intended. I know practice pans are allowed in the UK on the international emergency frequency... we've had that discussion already. I just find it a little ironic that those who most vehemently complain when 'YOU ARE ON GUAAARD' are probably the same ones who annoyed the rest of Europe during their 'days of practice' in the UK .
Quote >the same cultural background as the infamous Practice-Pan Brigade < unquote.
I'm just a little concerned at the arrogance of the inference made above.
I'm just a little concerned at the arrogance of the inference made above.
.
I just find it a little ironic that those who most vehemently complain when 'YOU ARE ON GUAAARD' are probably the same ones who annoyed the rest of Europe during their 'days of practice' in the UK
Oh and when are the guard police going to learn to time their admonishments so that they don't block each other out as they all leap on the PTT at once.
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Reportedly it was a Cessna 340 doing some training flights out of EDBC.
Produced some confusion on 121,5 and had another aircraft´s crew doing an "inspection" of their landing gear.
Finally made it safely back into Cochstedt.
Produced some confusion on 121,5 and had another aircraft´s crew doing an "inspection" of their landing gear.
Finally made it safely back into Cochstedt.
Listening first
Penko -
My training included practice PAN calls, and our UK safety group recommends occasional use to keep in practice.
And it is their observation that it keeps them in practice too.
IMHO one big advantage of this policy is that if I ever need 121.5 for real I will already be habituated to the procedures, including listening first.
My training included practice PAN calls, and our UK safety group recommends occasional use to keep in practice.
And it is their observation that it keeps them in practice too.
IMHO one big advantage of this policy is that if I ever need 121.5 for real I will already be habituated to the procedures, including listening first.