BA Pilots to ballot for strike over OpenSkies

[DickChomh]

As i said they're just opinions,and if I was BA I would agree..(fair point?)..But the ball was dropped by the unions years ago,principally by lack of union repersentation in the low cost operators.Will BALPA win ?,possibly,but that only secures the T&C'S in BA, it will not change industry standard.Don't claim to fight outside your ring.

If others opinions (and I agree with you!) contradict your own, please keep it professional and rebut with coherient fact...cheap shots are to easy and below us.

[Hand Solo]

But the ball was dropped by the unions years ago,principally by lack of union repersentation in the low cost operators.

Perhaps that BALPA representation in Easyjet was a figment of my imagination. I believe Ryanair spent an awful lot of money suing BALPA over REPA too. Unsuccesfully I might add. If there's no representation in the LoCos it's because there aren't enough members pushing for it, not because BALPA is uninterested.

Outside of BA nobody could care less about balpa

Try telling that to Britannia and Virgin crews.

[bullshot]

Where is this 'ban' chaps? I am a paid up member of BALPA and have not received notification of any ban. I cannot find reference to any ban on the BALPA website.
So, if there is a ban, perhaps BALPA should notify its members - until it does pilots can feel free (if they want to) to apply to any Airline that they desire.
BTW - a wagging finger on Pprune does not constitute a ban - just, it would appear to me, an attempt at intimidation.
When a BALPA ban appears, I will certainly not be contravening it - unlike many BA Pilots in OZ in 1989! - but of course most of you Chaps were still at school then...
Cheers
BS

[papa2andcharlie]

IFALPA Homepage, bottom right:

http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/recruitme...0-%20BALPA.pdf

[Open Lies]

Not just finger wagging here

.

The IFALPA recruitment ban looks pretty real to me..... (as previously discussed on page 17 of this thread.)

http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/recruitme...0-%20BALPA.pdf

[overstress]

...and around we go again!

Dickchomnh: if the perceived industry leader manages to lower its terms, then what message does that send out to the rest of the industry?!

So I refute that it only affects BA.

Not interested in fighting outside the ring, thanks.

BA pilots are engaged in their own fight and your support is welcome, but only in a moral sense.

But I appreciate you are just trying to wind-up the Nigels but perhaps you are a tad short on facts? The ban on recruitment for example

[411A]

These BA BALPA folks will have about as much success as the 49'ers did at CX...the bottom will fall out, leaving them with egg on their collective faces.

Their time has come and gone, unions (in nearly every industry today, not just airlines) have a much less collective voice than even a few years ago, and it will continue.
Folks who don't wake up to this very basic fact will be sore losers...personified.

[overstress]

411A: Can't you sleep? It's 0530 in Arizona... will you promise to resign from the forum when 'these BA BALPA folks' (me, my colleagues and friends) prove you very wrong? No, I didn't think so... how about a promise to eat your hat instead? Don't bother to reply to me as I'm just about to place you on ignore, so I won't see it - Cheers!

[James T. Kirk]

Leave it Kevin, he's not worth it!

[M.Mouse]

....unlike many BA Pilots in OZ in 1989!

Did any BA pilots work in Oz during the 1989 fiasco?

[Caudillo]

Putting the guy on ignore is not going to change the facts. I don't care for a lot of his posts but despite your ostrich reflex, he has it spot on. Trade unionism is a dying breed in the UK.

[Simmans]

I browsed to this site several days ago in an attempt to find out what the grievance was all about.
My reason for doing so is ultimately selfish, as I've booked the family across the pond for a holiday at end of March.

Though annoyed we've been unlucky enough to be attempting to jet off in the middle of potential industrial action, I must admit, that having read many of the postings here, and also browsing to the BALPA site, I would tend to side with you for taking this action. In truth, I'm more angry with the seeming intransigence of BA management, dragging the company through the mire again in an attempt to bring about a reduction of your T & C's by the back door.

I do hope that a 'peaceful' resolution will still be possible and that you manage to get the company to see sense. Given the recent profits forecast, it does seem bizarre that your management should see fit to potentially destroy the company over the well earned pay of those who made those profits possible in the first place?!?

Going back to my 'selfish' reasons once more, my booking, for non-flexible business class tickets were made with a 3rd party travel company (lest that makes any difference) If things do come to the worst, would I be correct in assuming I'd not be eligible for any refund given the cancellation was caused by Industrial Action' ie 'outside BA's Control'? Where exactly would I stand in such a situation, other than the proverbial 'Creek with no paddle!'

Best wishes for a speedy & successful resolution, and apologies if, as a Newbie, I've wandered slightly off topic on this my first posting! -I'm only self loading cargo after all!

[M.Mouse]

Trade unionism is a dying breed in the UK.

I would have to disagree. The way I see it is that trade union power has been curbed to an acceptable level when compared to the ruinous abuse of power by Scargill, McGahey, Scanlon and other assorted left wing militants in the late 60s and early 70s.

Trade union members can take a stand in a dispute but have to comply with the legislation giving ALL members the opportunity to vote (and in private), give the employer statutory notice of any union action and in carrying out that action an employee does run certain risks as does the union as well should the union not comply properly with the law.

It does serve to emphasise how serious the issue is that BALPA are prepared to lead its BA members into a dispute that 99% of us believe is justified but would all rather was not being forced upon us by a management who must think we are all complete idiots.

411A appears to hate unions, BALPA and especially BA pilots as he never misses an opportunity to make provocative and antagonistic posts on a thread whenever one or preferably all three are involved.

[overstress]

I don't care for a lot of his posts but despite your ostrich reflex...

My neck is short and fat. I prefer to keep my blood pressure down, hence the ignore.

Trade unionism may be a dying breed in the UK. That is irrelevant if there is a large strike mandate in this dispute, and the action actually takes place with the desired result.

Watch this space...

[Shark Slayer]

M.Mouse If they worked for Britannia they might have!

[Hand Solo]

Originally Posted by Caudillo

Putting the guy on ignore is not going to change the facts

Fortunately 411As posts rarely relate to the facts of the case. He is nothing more than a reactionary old union-buster unburdened by knowledge of employment law or industrial history. 411A is the Daily Mail of management pilots and his posts are rather like a midge bite, irritating but entirely inconsequential. I'd quite like to put him on my ignore list but I feel a strange personal responsibility to point out what utter garbage he spouts, lest any free thinking reader of PPRuNe believe he has something worthwhile to say.

[The Sandman]

Methinks 411A needs to remember that the world works in cycles. We are currently somewhere in the downswing of unionism - probably near the nadir, that was caused by (a probably much needed) reaction to the excesses of militant unionism as referred to above. But we now appear to be in the period in which similar excesses of management engender a unionizing response that reverses the trend. Watch this space over the next 10 years or so...

[M.Mouse]

M.Mouse If they worked for Britannia they might have!

But that is not quite the same thing which is why I posed the question.

As far as I am aware no BA pilots worked in Oz during the mass resignation in 1989.

I do in fact know one pilot who did. However he was not freelance and was working for a British airline who were operating in Australia at the time to fill the gap caused by the dispute. He had not long qualified and was deep in debt so was faced with a dilemma, resign on a point of principle or go where he was told by his employer.

I digress.

[lexoncd]

I fear that if you were to ask any of the SLF left stranded at Heathrow during the industrial action of recent years how they feel about another BA stike then the answer is clear.

Many other sectors of the UK have seen changes to their long established working practices. Heaven forbid even the chaps at Vauxhall and Ford at Speke accepted some years ago that to preserve their operations in the Uk things had to change.

GP's, Banking sector you name it they've all experienced change......

The question is dealing with the change and ensuring that a satisfactory deal is obtained. heaven forbid if there were sufficient slots at Heathrow to allow a true competitor to BA. Here we have BA taking what they're good at to a competitors door....encouge it don't fight it.

[randomair]

lexoncd,

"Here we have BA taking what they're good at to a competitors door....encourage it don't fight it."

Have you read the previous posts by BA pilots? Because they are encouraging it, just not solely under the managements own terms. All they want is a single seniority list, Is that too much to ask? Obviously management have a hidden agenda somewhere, and that has been discussed already.

randomair