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Turkish MD-83 Crash

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Turkish MD-83 Crash

Old 30th Nov 2007, 08:54
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Here's a publication from the Turkish newspaper Hurriyet. (In brackets a translation by a friend of mine)
SAAT (Time) 01.18
Kaptan Pilot: Isparta Kule, iyi geceler. (Tower, good evening)
Isparta Kule: İyi geceler, devam edin. (Good evening, continue...)
Kaptan Pilot: Atlasjet KK 4203, Isparta VOR üzeri. (KK 4203 overhead Isparta VOR)
Isparta Kule: Anlaşıldı. In-bound oluş ikaz. (Roger, report in-bound)
SAAT (Time) 01.36
Kaptan Pilot: Isparta kule, in-bound olduk
(Tower, established in-bound)
Isparta Kule: Anlaşıldı Atlasjet. Yaklaşmaya devam edin.
(Roger, Atlasjet. Continue approach)
Uçakla yapılan son konuşmada pilotlar in-bound oldukları yani pisti karşıladıklarını kuleye bildirdiler. Bu noktada uçağın pist başından uzaklığı yaklaşık 18 kilometre. MD-83 tipi uçağın bundan sonra alçalma yaparak piste iniş yapması gerekiyordu.
(last transmission by the crew was 'established in-bound' 18km from the rwy-at this point the MD-83 should normally start it's final approach/descent).
Source: Hürriyet

Last edited by MaxBlow; 30th Nov 2007 at 08:56. Reason: spelling
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:04
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Just to repeat a previous question, is EGPWS mandated for Turkish aircraft? I'm sure we can all learn from whatever the outcome of the investigation brings.

From the guardian :
A blogger on the Professional Pilots Rumour Network suggested the state of the wreckage implied the crash was a "slow speed impact" and maybe caused by a stalled engine or other problem as the pilot prepared to land.


That link to the Guardian - it has an advert for Vodafone half way down where it shows a phone capable of downloading funny videos from U-Tube. The caption is 'A LAUGH WHEN YOU NEED ONE'. I'm sure the families will really appreciate that and will all be rushing out to buy one. Innapropriate or what.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:07
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Not the first time this has happened here:

Date: 09/20/1976
Location: Karatepe Mountains, Turkey
Airline: THY Turkish Airlines
Aircraft: Boeing 727-200
Registration: TC-JBH
Fatalities/No. Aboard: 154:154
Details: The aircraft struck Mt. Karatepa during an approach to land. The crew attempted a landing at Isparta instead of Antalya.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:09
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If the flight was established inbound, then perhaps an error made on a
step down alttitude on the approach.

Don't know the approach for the runway, but assume there would be
a couple of steps with hills like those ones arround the airport.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:10
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I had trouble seeing the images...can anyone tell me the position of flaps/slats and landing gear?

does anyone have a copy of the approach?

CFIT?


very sad
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:21
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The pictures remind me of pics of the Trident crash just out of Heathrow in the 70s where the aircraft stalled and landed flat in a field with little forward velocity. There was no fire, the airframe was largely intact, though distorted, and all on board died. Most died quickly but one or two were removed alive by rescuers only to later succumb. A relatively unusual type of crash. Always stikes fear in me that one as my parents drove round the roundabout in Staines seconds before it crashed there. They heard a big bang and thought it was a gas explosion or something only realising later when they heard the news.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:43
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Was the B727 which crashed in 1976 on approach to the same airfield at Isparta?

Subject to copyright of course, can someone post the approach procedures for Isparta?
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:52
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looking on metar at the time of accident and that they were 10nm out when established,shouldn't they have Visual contact with airport?
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:03
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there are some maps and charts here:
http://www.jacdec.de/news/news.htm

http://www.jacdec.de/media/pdf/LTFC_Isparta.pdf
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:11
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at night there is still ablack hole

The terrain was propably not lighted and looks steep there, gear and flaps in landing position to silence EGPWS, sinkrate not that high.

On my plane i would only be warned by stepdown constraints. Non precision at night ist still a killer.

just a thought....sad story.

is there a md jockey out to check this.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:15
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maybe I'm being dumb here but from the charts the final approach path to 05 is over the water. If they impacted high ground 4km SW of the airport they were way off course from the final approach track. From the charts available there is no primary procedure, just a secondary let down in the hold.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:17
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The whole point of egpws is that the gear, flaps, and low descent rate DON'T silence the warning!
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:24
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If the aircraft crashed 4km SW on approach to 05 then would'nt that put it more or less on the extended centreline of the rwy in an area of flatish gnd at the head of the lake. Looking at Google earth, this area is more or less the same elevation as the rwy thr with higher gnd to the north.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:28
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I was looking at the hill to the west of the field?
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:29
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What about radar monitoring?
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:29
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did the copi paid for building time?
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:36
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Looking at the image, the rwy is 3km long, so 4km SW would be roughly where that elongated brown mountain type of feature is???
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:57
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Originally Posted by Propellerhead
The whole point of egpws is that the gear, flaps, and low descent rate DON'T silence the warning!
That is quite correct. However, the Terrain Clearance Floor function of EGPWS provides no warnings within cca 2 NM from the runway. According to Earl's post, the crash site is 7 NM far. However 4 km would be too close for EGPWS to alarm.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 11:02
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Wonder what the difference in cost is between dealing with this incident and an ILS or MLS installation?
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 11:16
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maybe they couldn't install an ILS, because of the obstacles...

Anyway, every airliner crew must be able to deal with NPA (Non Precision Approaches). Because we have so many ILS, people lack the training for NPAs.

Dani
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