Turkish MD-83 Crash
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hello,
I totally agree with you. But, What I noticed so far is that, accident investigation reports are not reaching to the individuals and public without being destorted or manupulated. I hope this time it works as you expect.
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Accident report
sinanerdem
You say reports are distorted. Is there a report available - distorted or not -in English do you know?
You say reports are distorted. Is there a report available - distorted or not -in English do you know?
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A message to PBL...
PBL, it pleases me to note that you have belatedly acknowledged CFIT as the most likely cause of this accident. (Exactly as some of us did over 3 months ago) May I respectfully remind you that you disparaged me when I took Skydrol Leak to task for his ludricous analysis (stall, low-level impact, engine-out etc) on November 30th and that you diagnosed "loss of control" in your post of December 4th? You suggested in an early post that those of us who suggested CFIT and dismissed some outrageous suggestions, should "have the grace to apologise." Looks like I won't have to eat humble pie for a while. Cheers, bm
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At this point we still don't know for sure what happened, so an open mind is of utmost importance. CFIT is one of many possibilities.
Last edited by punkalouver; 20th Mar 2009 at 21:20.
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A message to me! What fun!
BoeingMEL, you'll get no credit from me simply for guessing right. Indeed had you said "It was CFIT" when first hearing the words "commercial airplane crash" you would historically have been right about, oh, 40% of the time IIRC.
Well, technically SL is still more or less right, and if you want to contrast your guess with his then I still think SL's was better. I think the wreckage suggests he stalled it in. The details of the track seem to show, though, that he pointed it at the mountain on what he thought to be an approach, which makes classifying it as CFIT more sensible than as LOC. It seems the radar tracks are all anyone's got, so I doubt we'll hear much more about this accident.
Not because of your beliefs, obviously, but because you were unnecessarily rude. And I am glad to see you are still smarting from the reprimand. 
PBL
Originally Posted by BoeingMEL
PBL, it pleases me to note that you have belatedly acknowledged CFIT as the most likely cause of this accident. (Exactly as some of us did over 3 months ago)
Originally Posted by BoeingMEL
May I respectfully remind you that you disparaged me when I took Skydrol Leak to task for his ludricous [sic] analysis (stall, low-level impact, engine-out etc) on November 30th and that you diagnosed "loss of control" in your post of December 4th?
Originally Posted by BoeingMEL
You suggested in an early post that those of us who suggested CFIT and dismissed some outrageous suggestions, should "have the grace to apologise."
PBL
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The unfortunate thing is that people speculate when they have no idea what they are talking about.
Last edited by punkalouver; 20th Mar 2009 at 21:22.
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Accident Investigation Report revealed
At least the official report was submitted. It was kept secret, but today Turkish press reported it extensively.
a couple of days ago the Minister gave a press conference and claimed that the accident was "an ordinary CFIT." However the continued press digging in. The 361-page report laid bare serious misgivings such as:
1) Both CVR and FDR had not been working for eight days before the accident. And plane continued flying in that state!
2) EGPWS was faulty, the audible warning was not working, and it was recorded by the pilots before the flight!
3)The pilots' training and experience with MD83 were very limited, below standarad, and they were flying to Isparta for the first time.
4) The approach data was not keyed into the FMS
5) During final approach the pilots experienced a flap/slot problem.
6) That event created loss of spatial awareness and the pilots made a 30 dgr error on the final turn, heading 253 instead of 193, and flew into the mountain.
Let us press on to avoid yet another whitewash with "pilot error" pretext. This whole event was a corporate manslaughter/murder case where the liability goes high into the the state authorities that were supposed to oversee civil aviation.
a couple of days ago the Minister gave a press conference and claimed that the accident was "an ordinary CFIT." However the continued press digging in. The 361-page report laid bare serious misgivings such as:
1) Both CVR and FDR had not been working for eight days before the accident. And plane continued flying in that state!
2) EGPWS was faulty, the audible warning was not working, and it was recorded by the pilots before the flight!
3)The pilots' training and experience with MD83 were very limited, below standarad, and they were flying to Isparta for the first time.
4) The approach data was not keyed into the FMS
5) During final approach the pilots experienced a flap/slot problem.
6) That event created loss of spatial awareness and the pilots made a 30 dgr error on the final turn, heading 253 instead of 193, and flew into the mountain.
Let us press on to avoid yet another whitewash with "pilot error" pretext. This whole event was a corporate manslaughter/murder case where the liability goes high into the the state authorities that were supposed to oversee civil aviation.
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The accident report
MaxBlow
The report was prepared in English. However I was not able to see the full report niether in Turkish nor in English.
The press reported that the Accident Report was submitted to the Public Prosecutor investigating the incident. So far as I see, the case is considered sub judice and the Accident Report is part of the evidence, so they did not disclose it.
Yet another example of lack of transperancy and public scrutiny over the civil aviation matters in Turkey.
If I somehow get a copy of the report, I will post it.
The report was prepared in English. However I was not able to see the full report niether in Turkish nor in English.
The press reported that the Accident Report was submitted to the Public Prosecutor investigating the incident. So far as I see, the case is considered sub judice and the Accident Report is part of the evidence, so they did not disclose it.
Yet another example of lack of transperancy and public scrutiny over the civil aviation matters in Turkey.
If I somehow get a copy of the report, I will post it.
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Accident Report
Today press reported that a copy of the Accident Report was delivered to one of the Defence Lawyers.
That Lawyer said that as the report was highly technical, the Defence team get it studied in detail before they give copies to the victims' relatives.
Maybe a real chance at the end to get hold of a copy...
That Lawyer said that as the report was highly technical, the Defence team get it studied in detail before they give copies to the victims' relatives.
Maybe a real chance at the end to get hold of a copy...
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Ref post 281, why are German investigators looking into
the accident? Was it a leased aircraft?
Seems to me that there is a total lack of any responsibility
for the state of the aircraft maintenance that is a major
contributor to this awful combination of events.
It doesn't surprise me somehow. I wonder why?
the accident? Was it a leased aircraft?
Seems to me that there is a total lack of any responsibility
for the state of the aircraft maintenance that is a major
contributor to this awful combination of events.
It doesn't surprise me somehow. I wonder why?
