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SAS Q400 gear collaps CPH 27/10

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SAS Q400 gear collaps CPH 27/10

Old 25th Jan 2008, 20:14
  #361 (permalink)  
 
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Are they stored by SAS and Wideroe ? Notes elsewhere say they have gone from their initial parking points. Have they returned to North America ?
Most of them are stored at their respective bases, while some are stored elsewhere. None has gone over the pond, AFAIK...

...and Wideroes fifth Q400 is in Canada, ready for delivery...
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Old 25th Jan 2008, 20:19
  #362 (permalink)  
 
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Finn47, it *could* mean that correctly designed parts were assembled incorrectly, rather than a design flaw.
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Old 25th Jan 2008, 20:35
  #363 (permalink)  
 
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Since when would a faulty filter constitute as a major design flaw?
When it means that a relatively large percentage of landings are controlled crashes due to undercarriage not deploying correctly, because of a design aspect??
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Old 25th Jan 2008, 22:07
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When it means that a relatively large percentage of landings are controlled crashes due to undercarriage not deploying correctly, because of a design aspect??
Incorrect statement. The faulty filter only accounts for the third accident. The first two were due to corroded bolts!
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Old 26th Jan 2008, 10:23
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Hold on a minute! I was merely answering the OP's question.

One of the crashes was caused by a defective filter but a relatively LARGE NUMBER of other planes have been found to be suffereing the same problem.

In due course, how many of these other defective planes would have suffered the same fate as the first one? I'd wager the chances were fairly high.

I'd say that constitutes a major design flaw, wouldn't you? If the landing gear had been designed differently then it is very likely landing gear would be near 100% reliable...

Also, it is not clear whether the two planes with corroded bolts had deficient filters or not. It is also not clear whether the faulty filters could contribute to the corrosion or otherwise aggravate the problem.

What is clear is that the landing gear needs investigating and potentially re-designing. It seems that maintenance/inspection procedures should be tightened up too, and documentation re-writing.
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Old 26th Jan 2008, 10:58
  #366 (permalink)  
 
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Hold on a minute! I was merely answering the OP's question.
No, you are speculating an answer is more accurate.

In due course, how many of these other defective planes would have suffered the same fate as the first one? I'd wager the chances were fairly high.
Speculation.

I'd say that constitutes a major design flaw, wouldn't you?
Speculation

If the landing gear had been designed differently then it is very likely landing gear would be near 100% reliable...
Speculation

Also, it is not clear whether the two planes with corroded bolts had deficient filters or not.
If thats true, what's your point?

What is clear is that the landing gear needs investigating and potentially re-designing
.

Speculation.

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Old 26th Jan 2008, 12:41
  #367 (permalink)  
 
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flaps2billion:

Please, show me one Canadian report which makes definate claims prior to a final report?
It appears you live in Montreal, so you've obviously heard of the "Journal de Montreal"... their recent coverage on the Air Canada in-flight upset has been almost pure speculation.

Maybe you don't consider the "Journal de Montreal" to be a Canadian publication?
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Old 26th Jan 2008, 14:16
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I ve taken the trouble to read through the Luftfartvaesenet 's reports on the last accident, in English and Danish, as well as the the article in BT, the latter being a good example of SAS PR efforts and Bombardier bashing it would seem to me.

The prelimanary, but updated reports state clearly that a MLG component (MSV) was replaced by a nosewheel MSV that had been 'worked' by maintanance services. In order to fit this modified part into the MLG, fttings from the original MSV were used, those possibly 'hiding' an O-ring that later on caused the accident.

(Ref http://www.hcl.dk/graphics/Synkron-L...K_03112007.pdf page 2)

Can a manufacturer be accused of design flaws if a company doesn t use the right parts and follows its own procedures during maintanance operations?

Looking forward to the final report.

Fly safely.

Last edited by borghha; 26th Jan 2008 at 14:30. Reason: Adding reference doc SLV
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Old 26th Jan 2008, 14:40
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Originally Posted by borghha
The prelimanary, but updated reports state clearly that a MLG component (MSV) was replaced by a nosewheel MSV that had been 'worked' by maintanance services. In order to fit this modified part into the MLG, fttings from the original MSV were used, those possibly 'hiding' an O-ring that later on caused the accident.
AFAIK - That is a BBD approved procedure, discribed in the AMM.
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 01:53
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Can a manufacturer be accused of design flaws if a company doesn t use the right parts and follows its own procedures during maintanance operations?
Bingo!

That is a BBD approved procedure, discribed in the AMM.
Is it a Goodrich or BBD approved procedure?

It appears you live in Montreal, so you've obviously heard of the "Journal de Montreal"... their recent coverage on the Air Canada in-flight upset has been almost pure speculation.
??? Im not talking about speculation...I am talking about absolute statements prior to final report..

Was the article headline similar to this, "Air Canada has been flying dangerous airplanes for years when the aircraft rolled 60* for no apparent reason."


so, it is not clear whether the two planes with corroded bolts had deficient filters or not
That's just speculation. The reports I have seen so far indicate that they are isolated problems.

Why is SAS the only company that had a corrossion problem? Horizon operates on the west coast & have been flying their q400s for a while, with no corrossion.


It seems that the article was written by a political writer. Judging by the way he wrote the propaganda piece, he knows very little about aviation. The writer makes a big deal about a little thing without looking at all the facts. The writer talks as if the faulty filter caused all three accidents! Did he at least mention that a NOn avaition grade/ corrosive lube was used on the gears??

It seems that the media is trying to convince the people that SAS is not at fault. The investigation is still not finished! We don't if the faulty filter is the cause. Its goodrich who makes the gears....not BBD.

Making a big deal out of the little things in order to convince the people is wrong!
& making statements, "SAS has been flying dangerous airplanes," is shameful!

The thing the pisses me off is, that an average person can pick up the paper, read the article & say, "wow! those airplanes are dangerous."
If the investigation favours BBD....will the media & politcians take the time to apologize to the BBD company???
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 02:33
  #371 (permalink)  
 
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Its goodrich who makes the gears....not BBD.
As much as I hope that BBD is not at fault here.....The gear on the Dash 8 is part of the Dash 8. Just like the infamous rudder power control unit servo valves built by Parker Hannifin for the 737 are part of the 737.
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 08:29
  #372 (permalink)  
 
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I quote Flaps2billion:
"Did he at least mention that a NOn avaition grade/ corrosive lube was used on the gears??"

Thatīs speculation. Iīm still waiting to see any document saying this, I have also asked you guys to post it on Pprune.


Isnīt it right that BBD is now changin the design of the filters?
Why are they doing that if nothings wrong with them?


Does it matter if itīs a Goodrich or BBD approved procedure when itīs approved in the AMM?!


Headlines like "SAS has been flying dangerous airplanes" doesnīt help SASīs image so I donīt think that they wanted the article printed.
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 09:27
  #373 (permalink)  
 
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@flaps2billion - Just out of curiosity – what is your profession, and whom do you work for?
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 15:52
  #374 (permalink)  
 
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There are rumours that Wideroe is operating their DHQ400 fleet again. Can anybody confirm this?
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 17:33
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Negative, they are not.
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 17:47
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There are rumours that Wideroe is operating their DHQ400 fleet again. Can anybody confirm this?
No, they don't...
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 18:46
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SAS Q400 gear collapse....

I have heard that Wideroe have agreed with Bombardier to return their existing complement of 400`s to Bombardier and shall take delivery of new generation 400`s (five machines) in March.
How do you like them apples!
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 19:52
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Actually I would like that.
I have also read the same rumour in norwegian papers.
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 21:00
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Flyingbug,

I'm an Engineer by trade and when you see a number of catastrophic failures you check things out pretty carefully!

When you subsequently see problems with additional items out in the field alarm bells start to ring as it's apparent there is some kind of problem!

You can't seriously be telling me that this is all coincidence, surely??

Even if the fault is down to maintenance being carried out correctly (or incorrect assembly), it's still a design issue! Either your documentation is inadequate or the thing you designed is inherently difficult to maintain. Either way the designer is ultimately at fault.
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Old 27th Jan 2008, 22:51
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Negative, they are not
.

My friend, who is a test pilot for BBD, told me that they will be receiving new Q400s.

I tried to look it up on google & found this picture:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...AINST%20('+


Concerning the corrossive lube......that's the talk around BBD. Note that others have given the info on this thread...if you look back. So it's not just me.
Judging by the way the media in your country has been telling the story, do you think they want to make this public?
All I have to say is, wait for the final report on the first two accidents.

The EASA strongly believes that the problem lies between maint. & fault design. Now that they have discovered the problem, they

I have one question though.
What is it not an SSV valve on the right main gear that was replaced on Oct. 16th, that triggered the rogue o-ring to migrate in the hydralics lines?


what is your profession, and whom do you work for?
I fly Fly Dash8 & teach M/IFR.......whom do I work for? None of your business!
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