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SAS Q400 gear collaps CPH 27/10

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SAS Q400 gear collaps CPH 27/10

Old 16th Dec 2007, 15:25
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When did this assembling take place, before the first gear collapse or after the first inspection?


If using the incorrect type of grease caused the corrosion, it must have been applied a long time before the first gear collapse, for enough corrosion to develop.

If it was used after the inspection, it canīt have anything to do with the gear collapses, isnīt that right?!
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Old 16th Dec 2007, 16:14
  #322 (permalink)  
 
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Ladusvala,

The inspections only took place after the second main gear failure (the first two were in a short space of time) these inspections were to find evidence of corrosion on the rest of the fleet. The third incident has nothing to do with the type of grease used.
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Old 16th Dec 2007, 18:37
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My question still stands...

...because Iīm trying to find out if the gear collapses has something to do with the type of grease used (as Bombardier seems to suggest in itīs info that Kiwiconehead refers to)
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Old 16th Dec 2007, 20:43
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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Two different gear collapse mechanism at work in the three accidents.

First two - attributed to corrosion, in turn partly attributed, it seems, to use of non-standard grease. Aircraft had presumably been like this for a while, in order to corrode. Grease presumably applied during some routine maintenance or inspection action.

Then ... mandatory inspections.

Then ... third gear collapse, apparently due to the much discussed migrating O-ring. Migration believed to have been facilitated during the disassembly/reassembly required for the mandatory inspections.

The only link between the grease/corrosion and the third accident is that it prompted the inspections, which caused maintenance to be done in the area, which apparently caused the O-ring migration.

That's my understanding of the situation, from watching the various discussions and reports.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 04:12
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Talks of SAS now ordering CRJ 700-900 to replace Q400? Looks like both are settling behind he scenes??????
http://epn.dk/industri/article1204734.ece

Friend of mine from CPH sent this to me. Can anybody fully translate it?
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 07:17
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The reason that the corrosion wasnīt discovered was that the failed part wasnīt supposed to be inspected before sometime in the future.

If the failed part hasnīt been disassembled, how can the non-standard grease cause the corrosion of the threads?


Maybe thereīs other reasons, except for an inspection, to disassemble the part but then it seems to have been done on all SAS Q400īs.
If it happends frequently, maintenance personell should have seen the corrosion before the part failed.

Is the info about the non-standard grease just Bombardier blowing smoke?


Can someone who has read the Bombardier info, tell us if the non-standard grease was used before or after the gear collapses?



It would be an elegant solution if SAS replaces the Q400īs with CRJ 700-900, both for SAS and Bombardier. The decision is supposed to be taken on a board meeting today, monday.
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Old 18th Dec 2007, 08:25
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Advantageous trade-in terms?

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Old 20th Dec 2007, 05:05
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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Can someone who has read the Bombardier info, tell us if the non-standard grease was used before or after the gear collapses?
Is this guy for real?
If the final report shows it, accept it! SAS tech is probably good but not perfect. I am sure that BBD is partially at fault too....
Problems happen all the time in aviation might I remind you? Can you honestly give me an example of a perfect airplane????
How many more euro agencies have to confirm that the Q400 does not have a design flaw before you guys give up?
If they used a corrosive grease.....well, it happened. What are going to do about if. If BBD did not provide check for grease, well it happened.
Moral of the story, now both know better!
BBD is not putting out lies! Nor is SAS publically going against the information.
Stop your pro SAS attitude & focus on the facts with a neutral perception!
It looks like both want to settle behind the scenes. BBD will most probably give them a really good deal. I would really like to see CRJs in SAS colours! If this is the case, the lawsuit must be out the window....
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Old 20th Dec 2007, 06:58
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flaps2billion

Are you for real?

Ladusvala is simply asking where to find the information, that SAS has used the wrong grease. And honestly, I can't find it in the report you are refering to.

It's a valid question, but you seem to know it all, so maybe you can post a link to mentioned information, instead of puffing smoke.
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Old 20th Dec 2007, 07:31
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He's trying to defend his aircraft company while asking for a neutral standpoint from everyone else.

Not very neutral is it?
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Old 20th Dec 2007, 11:09
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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Flaps2billion

Final report? Have I missed something? I can only find a preliminary report, the latest
http://www.hcl.dk/graphics/Synkron-L...d%20header.pdf

Canīt see anything about grease in this report. I am also interested to read the document you are refering to.

Last edited by F_Hercules; 20th Dec 2007 at 12:38.
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Old 20th Dec 2007, 11:59
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Thanks Miraculix.

Chksix and Flaps2billion, I really hope that SAS maintenance hasnīt made a misstake with the grease but at the same time I like to know the truth and thatīs why Iīm asking for facts.

Why canīt you just provide a link to the report you are refering to? That would make it more credible and easier to believe.
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 19:49
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I have it on paper......but will send as soon as I can find it online!

Wait for the final report, wait...
Unlike the media in your countries!
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 19:52
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Also, correct me if I am wrong. But I don't think there has been a prelim. report for the first two accidents?? Only the third?

If so, then the lubricant problem may has yet to be official????
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 20:30
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The link in my post above is to a preliminary report for the first accident.
I havnīt seen any report from Lithuania för the second accident.
Below you will find the latest preliminary report for the third accident
http://www.hcl.dk/graphics/Synkron-L...K_03112007.pdf

We are all waiting for the final reports! But no info about grease in the preliminary reports yet.....
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 10:59
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On a paper here in front of me it say's: "flaps2billion is a Xxxx", now does that mean its true? See my point?

In one post you refer to a report that has not even been produced, saying one company is in the wrong another in the right. In another you tell people to wait for the report, while you yourself hammer one of the companies.
Funny how one set of rules apply for you and another for the rest of us.

I have flown several Bombardier turboprop products and honestly, Bombardier has not produced a good turboprop since the De Haviland Twinotter, loved that plane! (take care of its nosewheel though )
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 14:32
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And I loved the Dash 7 (6000 hrs) and Dash 8 (11.500 hrs)

Great aircraft for the regional market.

The press is able to kill any aircraft.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 16:56
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Hello DH7 Fan!

Who ever you are - I was propably flying Copilot with you a decade ago.
I did not really fall for the DH7 in the 1000h I flew one. But the DH8-300 are good solid airplanes and the DH8Q400 is a real pilotīs plane.

SAS tried to destroy the reputation of that plane in order to handle their own media problems.

Had they succeded that would have endangered a lot of jobs in Europe, US and Canada. Non wonder people are upset.

Blaming others is no way to handle a crisis.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 18:12
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SAS tried to destroy the reputation of that plane in order to handle their own media problems.
Absolutely! But that doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with the plane.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 23:03
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On a paper here in front of me it say's: "flaps2billion is a Xxxx", now does that mean its true? See my point?

In one post you refer to a report that has not even been produced, saying one company is in the wrong another in the right. In another you tell people to wait for the report, while you yourself hammer one of the companies.
Funny how one set of rules apply for you and another for the rest of us.

I have flown several Bombardier turboprop products and honestly, Bombardier has not produced a good turboprop since the De Haviland Twinotter, loved that plane! (take care of its nosewheel though
On paper here in front of me it say's "Miraculix is a pro/SAS nationalist ",now does that mean its true? See my point?

When coming into this forum, I was just trying to give balance to all the pro SAS B.S that was flooding around. Counter-acting people who already came to conclusions long before any report!
BTW, those can't be the full prelim. reports! The one I saw on the third was longer then that...

You must have bad judgment! I have been flying the Dash 8 for 6 years & what an amazing aircraft! Is there anything in the past 25 years that can compete? Saab??

Dehavilland Canada & now BBD, have an excellent reputation for making some of the finest Canadian turbo prop aircraft worldwide.
Not every aircraft is perfect, but still excellent! The Q400 is still selling strong as all clients know that the SAS incidents were isolated! Danish, Canadian & Euro agencies confirm that.....

99% of the customers believe that the Q400 is the best in it's category! Hands down.

I also loved flying the Twin otter when I was younger!
Oh ya genius....BBD never produced the DHC6 as De havlilland was under Hawker Siddley in the 1960s!

I know where you are trying to go with this! Your just like all the others who have decided on this matter since day 1!
Well sir, all I tell you is wait & see!
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