Article by COLUM KENNY of the Irish Independent.
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Mr Kenny could then have written an informative piece along the lines of "Ever wondered what happens when an airliner goes around?". He could have explained what happens, why it appears dramatic and why the go-around might be flown in the first place. He could have explained what the noises of the gear and flaps are, why the nose rises so much, why the aeroplane banks at relatively low levels. But that would not have been dramatic enough for him or his his editor, so we get this simplistic, shallow hype instead.
This is a rather poor example of work - utterly typical of the majority of journalists when they get near an aviation story. It doesn't even report facts so mucvh as the journalists's emotions - two very different things.
PPRUNERS - think on this. We know that 95% or more of all aviation-related stuff that appears in the popular press is poorly researched, innacurate, fabrication, hype or just plain nonsense. We know that because it's our field of expertise. Now think of how much you read in the press that is not in your field of expertise.....................
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Never forget a little knowledge is dangerous 
When it comes to aviation journalists seem to have a little knowledge and make up the rest. Except of course for a few well known aviation publications.
When it comes to aviation journalists seem to have a little knowledge and make up the rest. Except of course for a few well known aviation publications.
short flights long nights
We really need to start an award for this stuff...on a yearly (twice yearly??) basis.
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.....and 10 minutes on the phone to research a few facts would have allowed him to write an article with all the sensationalist twaddle removed. Whilst the noises and aeroplane manoeuvres may seem dramatic to the non-aviator, any pilot (or even experienced traveller) could have explained to Mr Kenny what it was all about.
To be fair to Mr Kenny, he did spend his 10 mins (at least) speaking to an airline and an airport authority and less he has completely misquoted his sources, the information supplied has not exactly shed the light it could have done on the situation.
I wonder what he would have written if he had been put through to the chief pilot or some other authority figure from the flight deck community, who had explained the situation and allayed his fears?
But he did make the effort, so I don;t think he should be criticized for that.
whoop whoop
I understand our frustration, but I don't believe this guy is an aviation journo - just a journo.
If you read the piece again, there is no mention of plunging aircraft, screaming pax etc etc, just a layman's description of the event he experienced and some comments on go arounds that show he is a layman; but I don't see anny of the sh*t stirring rubbish that I read in other paper.
In other words, here there MAYBE a guy who would write a good piece with the right info - I'm not aline pilot, so I cant do it, but perhaps someone else can.
Experience in other fields suggests that guys like Mr Kenny can be helpful if steered in the right direction.
.....and 10 minutes on the phone to research a few facts would have allowed him to write an article with all the sensationalist twaddle removed. Whilst the noises and aeroplane manoeuvres may seem dramatic to the non-aviator, any pilot (or even experienced traveller) could have explained to Mr Kenny what it was all about.
To be fair to Mr Kenny, he did spend his 10 mins (at least) speaking to an airline and an airport authority and less he has completely misquoted his sources, the information supplied has not exactly shed the light it could have done on the situation.
I wonder what he would have written if he had been put through to the chief pilot or some other authority figure from the flight deck community, who had explained the situation and allayed his fears?
But he did make the effort, so I don;t think he should be criticized for that.
whoop whoop
I understand our frustration, but I don't believe this guy is an aviation journo - just a journo.
If you read the piece again, there is no mention of plunging aircraft, screaming pax etc etc, just a layman's description of the event he experienced and some comments on go arounds that show he is a layman; but I don't see anny of the sh*t stirring rubbish that I read in other paper.
In other words, here there MAYBE a guy who would write a good piece with the right info - I'm not aline pilot, so I cant do it, but perhaps someone else can.
Experience in other fields suggests that guys like Mr Kenny can be helpful if steered in the right direction.
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Many pilots fail to realize that a go-around scare probably half of the pax on the plane ****less. They don't know what's going on and assume the worst, near miss etc.
I've seen go-arounds covered in the media far more sensationalist than in Mr. Kenny's piece. The article illustrates the need for some kind of public education with regards to go-arounds. Maybe it should be included in an FAQ in the inflight magazine... In any case, always make a PA as soon as possible after a go-around, explaining what happened and why, and stressing that it is a controlled operation and not out of the ordinary. Don't tell them you practice it two times a year in the sim, they don't find two timeas a year reassuring. Just don't let them leave the plane thinking they experienced a near miss...
I've seen go-arounds covered in the media far more sensationalist than in Mr. Kenny's piece. The article illustrates the need for some kind of public education with regards to go-arounds. Maybe it should be included in an FAQ in the inflight magazine... In any case, always make a PA as soon as possible after a go-around, explaining what happened and why, and stressing that it is a controlled operation and not out of the ordinary. Don't tell them you practice it two times a year in the sim, they don't find two timeas a year reassuring. Just don't let them leave the plane thinking they experienced a near miss...
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fireflybob,
my post is self explanatory.
however I have been involved in FDM analysis since its inception and responsible for its application in two uk companies.
I didnt say it isnt a normal maeuvere. I inferred that people dismiss them as a normal occurrence and not worth mentioning.. They are not. A landing should be the normal occurance from an approach.
I also stated that they are messed up to some degree. That means anything from poor tracking, speed control to piss poor flying and dangerous practice. You see thats the beautiful thing about the phrase I used.it covers the small to large errors. If such an alledged straightforward maneuvere causes so much hassle then why is it fobbed off as a non event? arrogance? probably. It isnt a non event and to act that it is indicates,from my 25 years in the business an accident waiting to happen from some skygod or other. Thats why we have fdm now.
How many times have you practiced go arounds on good engines in the sim from a non usual vertical or lateral position? Try it.ask the IP to insert it at random in the two days. Watch the fingers and thumbs, the poor fd work, tracking and flap discipline. Lets say ga 1600 feet flap 25, level off 2500feet with a turn at 185kt at x miles followed by a further climb and then aninstruction from atc to do something else. Ie not a briefed GA from decision alt at a familiar airport.
Or simpler at man go around at 350 feet. ..initial clean up roll mode 0 dme or 750'. I'll bet it gets screwed and the turn is missed due to a late roll mode, or the ga is cancelled due to ap selection because it wasnt in a set sequence that you practice so well.. I could go on ive seen many but quite frankly i cant be arsed anymore.
Rick .
good post. My thoughts exactly
my post is self explanatory.
however I have been involved in FDM analysis since its inception and responsible for its application in two uk companies.
I didnt say it isnt a normal maeuvere. I inferred that people dismiss them as a normal occurrence and not worth mentioning.. They are not. A landing should be the normal occurance from an approach.
I also stated that they are messed up to some degree. That means anything from poor tracking, speed control to piss poor flying and dangerous practice. You see thats the beautiful thing about the phrase I used.it covers the small to large errors. If such an alledged straightforward maneuvere causes so much hassle then why is it fobbed off as a non event? arrogance? probably. It isnt a non event and to act that it is indicates,from my 25 years in the business an accident waiting to happen from some skygod or other. Thats why we have fdm now.
How many times have you practiced go arounds on good engines in the sim from a non usual vertical or lateral position? Try it.ask the IP to insert it at random in the two days. Watch the fingers and thumbs, the poor fd work, tracking and flap discipline. Lets say ga 1600 feet flap 25, level off 2500feet with a turn at 185kt at x miles followed by a further climb and then aninstruction from atc to do something else. Ie not a briefed GA from decision alt at a familiar airport.
Or simpler at man go around at 350 feet. ..initial clean up roll mode 0 dme or 750'. I'll bet it gets screwed and the turn is missed due to a late roll mode, or the ga is cancelled due to ap selection because it wasnt in a set sequence that you practice so well.. I could go on ive seen many but quite frankly i cant be arsed anymore.
Rick .
good post. My thoughts exactly
I agree with Lou Stulewater. I cannot tell you how many go-arounds I have seen flown inaccurately in years of training and examining. I have lost count of how many times I have briefed pilots that there is no point in flying a beautiful ILS if you then screw up the go around. I have also lost count of how many times I have told them that, if they screw up the go around, then they are also going to have to fly the ILS again.
Now that is not to say that we are talking about dangerous manoeuvres. We are talking about inaccuracies such as poor tracking etc.
Another consideration is that go arounds are normally practiced twice a year in the simulator. As often as not they are practiced at MLW with one engine out.
I once had to go around at LGW in a DC10-30 after a flight from LAX. The aircraft was very light and all engines were operating. The rate of climb when I hit the TOGA button was astronomic and it was quite difficult not to bust the missed approach altitude believe you me.
So, go around manoeuvres are normal manoeuvres but they are not practiced as often as some of our brethern seem to think is necessary.
The travelling public need to have little to fear sitting in the back whilst a go around manoeuvre is being flown. You are in safe hands but the guys in the front will be working quite hard for a little while so don't expect an immediate passenger announcement.
Now that is not to say that we are talking about dangerous manoeuvres. We are talking about inaccuracies such as poor tracking etc.
Another consideration is that go arounds are normally practiced twice a year in the simulator. As often as not they are practiced at MLW with one engine out.
I once had to go around at LGW in a DC10-30 after a flight from LAX. The aircraft was very light and all engines were operating. The rate of climb when I hit the TOGA button was astronomic and it was quite difficult not to bust the missed approach altitude believe you me.
So, go around manoeuvres are normal manoeuvres but they are not practiced as often as some of our brethern seem to think is necessary.
The travelling public need to have little to fear sitting in the back whilst a go around manoeuvre is being flown. You are in safe hands but the guys in the front will be working quite hard for a little while so don't expect an immediate passenger announcement.
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I fully agree with what many have said - i.e. make a passenger PA as soon as is practicle ... I always do this myself - it calms veryone down.
HOWEVER, the travelling public DON'T require an explanation for every manouevre we fly , and there is no reason to educate them on the finer points of a go-around.
We (the public) do not question a surgeon, nor a lawyer, nor the bus driver when he has to brake sharply ...
Just allow the professionals to do their job for chr1st sake !
If you don't trust your pilots, DON'T GET ON THE AIRPLANE
HOWEVER, the travelling public DON'T require an explanation for every manouevre we fly , and there is no reason to educate them on the finer points of a go-around.
We (the public) do not question a surgeon, nor a lawyer, nor the bus driver when he has to brake sharply ...
Just allow the professionals to do their job for chr1st sake !
If you don't trust your pilots, DON'T GET ON THE AIRPLANE
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Those of you who are not familiar with the Irish media ought to be informed of the nature this particular newspaper before making further judgements on the journalistic standards in said article.
The 'Sunday Independent' (affectionately known in Ireland as 'The Sindo') is part of Independent Newspapers Group (ING), a publishing company owned by 'Sir' Tony O'Reilly, an Irish multi millionaire businessman. More on him later.
The Sindo is a newspaper in similiar vein to the UK tabloid 'The Sun'. It is a scandal sheet masquerading as a broadsheet (in only the thinnest of disguises). It is legendary among Irish newspapers for its willingness to print any lie or innacurracy it believes will sell to the public. It's cover page normally consists of a bombastic headline juxtaposed with a picture of a scantily clad female - not a 'serious' image right from the start.
The inner pages continue in much the same vein - little actual news, but plenty of innuendo, insinuation, sensationalism, prurience and character demolition. It focuses heavily on 'celebrity' stories and is as Right Wing in its politics as Bill O'Reilly.
Just as an example of its gutter journalism, the same issue which carried the article we're discussing also printed a 'report' from a journalist who had interviewed a DRUG DEALER who informed her that his best customers for his cocaine business include 'an airline pilot'. No names, no evidence, just a despicable accusation, allegedly from a self admitted criminal.
Mr.O'Reilly - the proprietor - sets the tone for this rag. His company ING effectively controls 80% of the Irish print media, and he is not averse to using this influence to ridicule, undermine or even destroy his victim du jour. His own Right Wing agenda is well documented and reflected in the editorial direction he encourages, witness his papers history of union bashing. The sacking of journalists who don't toe the party line was well demonstrated by the departure of Justine McCarthy after she wrote an article sympathetic to workers in the Irish Ferries dispute in 2005.
In short - if you MUST read a comic like this, please don't be foolish enough to take anything written therein seriously.
The 'Sunday Independent' (affectionately known in Ireland as 'The Sindo') is part of Independent Newspapers Group (ING), a publishing company owned by 'Sir' Tony O'Reilly, an Irish multi millionaire businessman. More on him later.
The Sindo is a newspaper in similiar vein to the UK tabloid 'The Sun'. It is a scandal sheet masquerading as a broadsheet (in only the thinnest of disguises). It is legendary among Irish newspapers for its willingness to print any lie or innacurracy it believes will sell to the public. It's cover page normally consists of a bombastic headline juxtaposed with a picture of a scantily clad female - not a 'serious' image right from the start.
The inner pages continue in much the same vein - little actual news, but plenty of innuendo, insinuation, sensationalism, prurience and character demolition. It focuses heavily on 'celebrity' stories and is as Right Wing in its politics as Bill O'Reilly.
Just as an example of its gutter journalism, the same issue which carried the article we're discussing also printed a 'report' from a journalist who had interviewed a DRUG DEALER who informed her that his best customers for his cocaine business include 'an airline pilot'. No names, no evidence, just a despicable accusation, allegedly from a self admitted criminal.
Mr.O'Reilly - the proprietor - sets the tone for this rag. His company ING effectively controls 80% of the Irish print media, and he is not averse to using this influence to ridicule, undermine or even destroy his victim du jour. His own Right Wing agenda is well documented and reflected in the editorial direction he encourages, witness his papers history of union bashing. The sacking of journalists who don't toe the party line was well demonstrated by the departure of Justine McCarthy after she wrote an article sympathetic to workers in the Irish Ferries dispute in 2005.
In short - if you MUST read a comic like this, please don't be foolish enough to take anything written therein seriously.
All the points re money and putting quarts in to pints and nimbys are well taken. Furthermore, I appreciate the job that all of you do (I was privileged to ride a number of jump seat departures and arrivals over the years pre 9/11). I once saw the "clearance in the flare" happen from the jump and the (apparent) calm in the cockpit was impressive.
But you do yourselves a disservice when you slag off the journos. You need them on your side so they don't write sensationalist rubbish.
But you do yourselves a disservice when you slag off the journos. You need them on your side so they don't write sensationalist rubbish.
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I frequently get a good laugh out of sensationalist reports of go arounds. Some are quite hilarious. Mr Kenny's is not the worst I've seen and amounts to no more than a filler that journalists waste their lives writing. But to be fair to the average passenger a go around is scary. I experienced only one as a pax. My gasp of exasperation because I knew I was about to miss my connection was misinterpreted by the woman beside me as fear and she glanced at me worriedly. I apologised and explained that most probably it was simply because the aircraft ahead was slow to clear the runway. Kudos to me when it was announced as exactly that. I explained go arounds and she relaxed.
Like it or not go arounds are a bit scary for the uninitiated and scary for those like Mr Kenny with a little knowledge.
It is surprising to me, sometimes just how little knowledge of flying so many passengers have despite the huge growth in air travel. It is still something of a mystery to many people. Every trivial incident seems to garner acres of newsprint. I'm not sure how this kind of negative attitude can be reversed.
So I guess we'll have to put up with this kind negative press.
I wonder if any of thought to contact Kenny directly and educate him a bit more. (Not abuse him
)
It would do no harm.
Like it or not go arounds are a bit scary for the uninitiated and scary for those like Mr Kenny with a little knowledge.
It is surprising to me, sometimes just how little knowledge of flying so many passengers have despite the huge growth in air travel. It is still something of a mystery to many people. Every trivial incident seems to garner acres of newsprint. I'm not sure how this kind of negative attitude can be reversed.
So I guess we'll have to put up with this kind negative press.
I wonder if any of thought to contact Kenny directly and educate him a bit more. (Not abuse him
) It would do no harm.
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Yes, though only a PPL and I don't have the same perceived authority as a line pilot.
Given it was written by a layman, I thought the article was a reasonable attempt and the journo might actually do a good job with a better grasp of the subject.
Yes, though only a PPL and I don't have the same perceived authority as a line pilot.
Given it was written by a layman, I thought the article was a reasonable attempt and the journo might actually do a good job with a better grasp of the subject.
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But you do yourselves a disservice when you slag off the journos. You need them on your side so they don't write sensationalist rubbish.
It is surprising to me, sometimes just how little knowledge of flying so many passengers have despite the huge growth in air travel. It is still something of a mystery to many people. Every trivial incident seems to garner acres of newsprint. I'm not sure how this kind of negative attitude can be reversed.
So I guess we'll have to put up with this kind negative press.
So I guess we'll have to put up with this kind negative press.
These are not mere "Passengers". They are so-called "Professional Journalists".
In my humble opinion - a "Professional" is required to know what they are talking about, rather than discrediting themselves by printing rubbish. Otherwise, why waste our money and time buying and reading their trash?
After all, these are the very same people who comment on our "generous wages" and "cushy working conditions"! They seem to expect us (and the credulous public) to blindly accept their pronouncements as gospel truth, when the reality is that most of their 'NEWS' is nothing but mere Opinion from a bunch of ignorant lazy hacks with a domineering editor who is employed by a millionaire proprietor with a clear agenda.
We need to "suck up to them" and "get them onside"?
Excuse me, we are not politicians. We don't need to give a damn for journalists opinions - stick them.
What matters is the truth.
If you journos wish to print lies and spin then go ahead and be damned - they sell well. The only people you fool are yourselves and the ignorant public. Don't try to rope professional pilots into your sleazy circle of back-scratching pols and hacks.
This is the level at which tabloid 'journalism' operates in the UK/Irish press - pure guttersniping bull****. There are decent journalists out tere Danny, no doubt, but bull**** is bull****, and a hack is a hack - especially when employed by the bottom-feeders like the Sindo.
Desrt2005, I'm sure Tony O'Reilly deeply appreciates your craven and snivelling imprimatur.
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This would be the same Colum Kenny that is the journo and college professor on journalism in Rathmines or at least he used to be. When the industry needed an 'expert' to talk to about radio stuff they would turn to this guy for advice! To be honest I expected more from him than this crap but thats the indo for you. More and more like the Star every day.
Incidentally, The BCI, those are the boys that regulate the broadcast industry in Ireland take broadcasting breaches very seriously. Things like 'dead air' are one such incident. However I dont think the BCI will be informed of this incident and I certaintly dont think the newspapers will carry a big story tomorrow about the 'loss of communications' at a Dublin radio station. In my business (radio) this is a big deal!
http://www.radioviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=395
I think Mr Kenny should stick to talk of radio and leave the stuff that he has no idea about alone. Or would he prefer if the offending pilot landed and plowed into the back of the departing traffic.
Sorry he is now in DCU. I suggest you send him an email.
http://www.dcu.ie/info/staff_member.php?id_no=987
Incidentally, The BCI, those are the boys that regulate the broadcast industry in Ireland take broadcasting breaches very seriously. Things like 'dead air' are one such incident. However I dont think the BCI will be informed of this incident and I certaintly dont think the newspapers will carry a big story tomorrow about the 'loss of communications' at a Dublin radio station. In my business (radio) this is a big deal!
http://www.radioviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=395
I think Mr Kenny should stick to talk of radio and leave the stuff that he has no idea about alone. Or would he prefer if the offending pilot landed and plowed into the back of the departing traffic.
Sorry he is now in DCU. I suggest you send him an email.
http://www.dcu.ie/info/staff_member.php?id_no=987
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"methinks though does protest to much"
In 20000 or so hours I have performed only a few go-arounds as opposed to "discontinued approaches" However as a trainer I have observed a multitude of screw ups in the sim, usualy with all engines operating. Is just something that we dont do very often and with modern aircraft perfomance it all happens a bit quick.
I thought the artical just expressed a laymans opinion, why get excited?
In 20000 or so hours I have performed only a few go-arounds as opposed to "discontinued approaches" However as a trainer I have observed a multitude of screw ups in the sim, usualy with all engines operating. Is just something that we dont do very often and with modern aircraft perfomance it all happens a bit quick.
I thought the artical just expressed a laymans opinion, why get excited?
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time for a new forum?
you know, I would almost suggest a new forum along the lines "stupid stuff in the press today" and all these threads could be shunted there never to return! It must make up at least 10% of the traffic on rumours and news, and there's obviously a hard core of people that get some satisfaction over nit picking over the missed school/wrestling pilot/screaming engines sections of each report!
Doesn't anybody have an off switch where they can just ignore these threads when they appear?
G
Doesn't anybody have an off switch where they can just ignore these threads when they appear?
G
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Originally Posted by Gullyone
I thought the artical just expressed a laymans opinion, why get excited?
Why get indignant?
Because this is not just a laymans opinion - it is an opinion from a journal with an axe to grind. An agenda to discredit.
I've tried explaining this, but you obviously aren't getting my drift.
Can anyone get hold of the e-mail adress of Mr. Kenny? I would love to e-mail him the link to this thread!
Let's see what Mr. Kenny has to say to all this journo-bashing.
Let's see what Mr. Kenny has to say to all this journo-bashing.