Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
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I've posted on this thread before, and then just monitored it. I thought, we all have had bad experiences but agreed with the posters that said here we are, complaining on a rumour network site; however this won't change the security regulations with regards to flight crew/CC in (and i refer to UK) airports and agreed with those who said someone, somewhere, has to do something about this.
I will now post the experience i had yesterday, going through staff channel, at EMA; there will be no accusations, no swearing, no pointing out the obvious; just what happened.
As required i put everything in the tray, the clear plastic bag as well, took my shoes off, my jacket off, the whole lot. Went through the gate to notice there were a lot of SS in the room. Two of them were monitoring the operating SS, taking notes and keeping "an eye open". To be honest i thought nothing of it, and went to get my stuff. Then the screen operator asks to have a look in my handbag. I say sure, go ahead. He then took everything out from my clear plastic bag and simply asked me "what do you want to leave behind?". Rather confused i asked why do i have to leave anything behind. The answer was simple "the plastic bag can't be sealed, you have too much stuff; it needs to be sealed". I felt forced shall i say to agree (it was a first in 18 months i operated out of EMA, never before i had problems with my bag not being sealed) and then chose what i leave behind so that the plastic bag can be sealed;
I asked for a receipt to collect my items when i return. I've been told that one can not be issued with a receipt and that the items will be disposed.
I am now without a L'Oreal Mascara worth £6.99 and a 100ml L'oreal hair spray worth about £3. (my fingertips really want to type a point but i did promise i won't).
Rgds,
ATS
I will now post the experience i had yesterday, going through staff channel, at EMA; there will be no accusations, no swearing, no pointing out the obvious; just what happened.
As required i put everything in the tray, the clear plastic bag as well, took my shoes off, my jacket off, the whole lot. Went through the gate to notice there were a lot of SS in the room. Two of them were monitoring the operating SS, taking notes and keeping "an eye open". To be honest i thought nothing of it, and went to get my stuff. Then the screen operator asks to have a look in my handbag. I say sure, go ahead. He then took everything out from my clear plastic bag and simply asked me "what do you want to leave behind?". Rather confused i asked why do i have to leave anything behind. The answer was simple "the plastic bag can't be sealed, you have too much stuff; it needs to be sealed". I felt forced shall i say to agree (it was a first in 18 months i operated out of EMA, never before i had problems with my bag not being sealed) and then chose what i leave behind so that the plastic bag can be sealed;
I asked for a receipt to collect my items when i return. I've been told that one can not be issued with a receipt and that the items will be disposed.
I am now without a L'Oreal Mascara worth £6.99 and a 100ml L'oreal hair spray worth about £3. (my fingertips really want to type a point but i did promise i won't).
Rgds,
ATS
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Idiot Supervisor
The other day I set off the beep in the arch.
The supervisor searched me really thoroughly, as you do if you think I was a terrorist.
While he was doing all this I said to him, you know you can search me all you want, but if I brought my airplane through this place you wouldn't let it through would you.
Why not? - He asked.
I said because it's full of metal, liquids a huge axe and a tiny bit of fuel too and it's being made all ready for me to use right now - just outside!!!!!! Hehehehe.
He was truly stunned by this - loved it!!!
The sec. girl next to him started laughing
The supervisor searched me really thoroughly, as you do if you think I was a terrorist.
While he was doing all this I said to him, you know you can search me all you want, but if I brought my airplane through this place you wouldn't let it through would you.
Why not? - He asked.
I said because it's full of metal, liquids a huge axe and a tiny bit of fuel too and it's being made all ready for me to use right now - just outside!!!!!! Hehehehe.
He was truly stunned by this - loved it!!!
The sec. girl next to him started laughing
Thought this one might tickle those who like to hear of the rambling lack of logic in the currently applied security process....
UK group of airports
Staff from one of the group are attending a course at the "main base".
The course is airside.
Security tell them that passes from other airports in the group are not interchangeable for other sites and so they must get a visitor pass.
When collecting their visitor passes they are told they cannot use their "other group airport passes" as proof of identity ... they must bring passports etc.
When being issued with their temporary passes they are then told they must hand over their "other airport pass".
When they quite naturally ask why they are told ......
"Because you can't hold two passes at the same time"
UK group of airports
Staff from one of the group are attending a course at the "main base".
The course is airside.
Security tell them that passes from other airports in the group are not interchangeable for other sites and so they must get a visitor pass.
When collecting their visitor passes they are told they cannot use their "other group airport passes" as proof of identity ... they must bring passports etc.
When being issued with their temporary passes they are then told they must hand over their "other airport pass".
When they quite naturally ask why they are told ......
"Because you can't hold two passes at the same time"
Join Date: Mar 2007
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How long before security staff get arrested for obstruction?
Officious security geek to two plain clothed customs officers yesterday:
Why aren't you in uniform?
Where are you going?
After being told that they weren't going to answer the first 2 questions, security geek said......
I'm not sure if I can let you through
Unfortunately he let them through, I'd have given this weeks pay to watch the customs guys march him off in handcuffs
S78
Why aren't you in uniform?
Where are you going?
After being told that they weren't going to answer the first 2 questions, security geek said......
I'm not sure if I can let you through
Unfortunately he let them through, I'd have given this weeks pay to watch the customs guys march him off in handcuffs
S78
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Within the last week Brs decided to remove my 75cl bottle of aftershave due to the 75cl markings having rubbed off - no dicussion - bottle has no markings so not allowed even after presenting an exact same tester loaned from duty free. Bfs decided my plastic bag was too big - took bag as is and placed in a smaller bag which was re-xrayed and voila now its ok
All in the name of security
I didn't think that a Greek God would use aftershave - and so do they think on the hill in BFS!
All in the name of security
I didn't think that a Greek God would use aftershave - and so do they think on the hill in BFS!
Last edited by dhoejgaard; 10th Sep 2008 at 12:29.
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LHR - after stripping my shoes, cap, watch, jacket, removing my laptop, and spreading them, my TIP EX is found in my pilot bag and is deemed ..... wait for it....
A THREAT TO SECURITY!!
The 349 ton twin jet strapped to my backside - that is not a threat, but TIP EX is!
A THREAT TO SECURITY!!
The 349 ton twin jet strapped to my backside - that is not a threat, but TIP EX is!
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You could argue that Tipex is essential to the safety of the flight - Corrections on paperwork ... (lets face it they dont know about triplicate carbon copies).
Maybe you could have bought some mileage by threatening endangering an aircraft and its occupants by this confiscation - I do believe it is reasonable as flight deck to take suitable items of stationery in your flight bag (no pencil sharpner though as that is more dangerous than the axe).
RIX
Maybe you could have bought some mileage by threatening endangering an aircraft and its occupants by this confiscation - I do believe it is reasonable as flight deck to take suitable items of stationery in your flight bag (no pencil sharpner though as that is more dangerous than the axe).
RIX
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BHX security still seem to think that a pot of yoghurt is a highly dangerous part of a liquid ED and still confiscate them. Haven't seen any halt to them being loaded as part of crew breakfast goodie tray though....(but they probably go through a far more rigorous check by Air Fayre or whoever the food supplier is
)
)
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Gatwick on Tues - staff channel.
Watched what was either a plain clothed customs or immigration officer go through on a escorted day pass with a warrant card as back-up. Bloke put his bits and bobs through the x-ray, went through and was set upon by an operative who yanked his arms up in an extremely agitated way for some reason and started barking in the persons face about concealing a weapon because his arms were not high enough.
Aforementioned person not happy, appeared to be in some discomfort as a consequence of the operatives actions, a brief verbal exchange ensued ending with the aforementioned bloke asking for the operatives id card number. And here's the incredible bit, the operative backed right off and hid his card, refusing to show the card to the official asking. I believe if the police, customs or immigration ask for your card details airside, you are obliged to give them, no questions asked.
Supervisor got involved, quiet words were exchanged on what looked a friendly basis which ended with the official writing something down and moving off.
What sort of security idiot f*cks with customs/police when they have clearly complied with whatever they've been asked to do - I suspect it won't end there for this operative - I hope not - he exemplified everything I despise about some of these knobbers.
You pick your battles I was always taught..........
Watched what was either a plain clothed customs or immigration officer go through on a escorted day pass with a warrant card as back-up. Bloke put his bits and bobs through the x-ray, went through and was set upon by an operative who yanked his arms up in an extremely agitated way for some reason and started barking in the persons face about concealing a weapon because his arms were not high enough.
Aforementioned person not happy, appeared to be in some discomfort as a consequence of the operatives actions, a brief verbal exchange ensued ending with the aforementioned bloke asking for the operatives id card number. And here's the incredible bit, the operative backed right off and hid his card, refusing to show the card to the official asking. I believe if the police, customs or immigration ask for your card details airside, you are obliged to give them, no questions asked.
Supervisor got involved, quiet words were exchanged on what looked a friendly basis which ended with the official writing something down and moving off.
What sort of security idiot f*cks with customs/police when they have clearly complied with whatever they've been asked to do - I suspect it won't end there for this operative - I hope not - he exemplified everything I despise about some of these knobbers.
You pick your battles I was always taught..........
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For what it's worth I departed from Heathrow last Saturday evening on my way back home to Thailand. I was planning on going by train to Amsterdam but the chunnel was on fire and closed - just my luck.
I have to say that security at LHR was, for once, a non-event. The lady on the metal detector was (I think) of Eastern European origin and was very pleasant. I put my see-through plastic bag containing toothbrush, 50ml mouthwash and 50ml skin freshener through the machine. No problem. Backup batteries for my camera and MP3 player in my laptop bag were no problem either. I retained my belt and shoes and passed through the arch without beeping it. I remembered seeing a clear passage along the side of the separate shoe check the last time I came through Heathrow. It was still there so I bypassed the shoe check and on to the Immigration desk where an Immigration Officer of Indian origin merely glanced at my passport and I was through.
Including queue time I was through in less than 15 minutes allowing me time for a couple of pints before boarding. Usually I end up having to run to the gate.
So, was I just lucky or is Heathrow trying to clean up it's security act?
I have to say that security at LHR was, for once, a non-event. The lady on the metal detector was (I think) of Eastern European origin and was very pleasant. I put my see-through plastic bag containing toothbrush, 50ml mouthwash and 50ml skin freshener through the machine. No problem. Backup batteries for my camera and MP3 player in my laptop bag were no problem either. I retained my belt and shoes and passed through the arch without beeping it. I remembered seeing a clear passage along the side of the separate shoe check the last time I came through Heathrow. It was still there so I bypassed the shoe check and on to the Immigration desk where an Immigration Officer of Indian origin merely glanced at my passport and I was through.
Including queue time I was through in less than 15 minutes allowing me time for a couple of pints before boarding. Usually I end up having to run to the gate.
So, was I just lucky or is Heathrow trying to clean up it's security act?
Last edited by Xeque; 19th Sep 2008 at 05:19.
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Just when you thought it was safe to go in the water
After being suspended from this forum for telling the truth and being insulted and villified by users and the moderator I am back. I was recently abused by security operatives in the UK but was subject to exactly the same searches in Holland and Germany with humour ( yes humour in Germany) and efficiency.
The nub of this post is not about the searching and security procedures it is about the neccessity of it applying to aircrew.
As I said in the Post immediately before I was suspended why is it that someone who has 6 weeks training in opening aircraft doors and has a supposedly 5 year checkable work history should be waved through all security procedures and treated as royalty.
This is madness and should not even be considered
The nub of this post is not about the searching and security procedures it is about the neccessity of it applying to aircrew.
As I said in the Post immediately before I was suspended why is it that someone who has 6 weeks training in opening aircraft doors and has a supposedly 5 year checkable work history should be waved through all security procedures and treated as royalty.
This is madness and should not even be considered
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No, the nub of this thread is about ineffective rules put in place by politicians who think that being seen to be doing anything is the best PR and enforced by Aldi rejects who have no concept of common sense and use the job as a power trip and an opportunity to take out their petty jealousies on people (aircrew, customs etc) whos jobs have real power and responsibility
S78
S78
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Getting a bit bored of having my bathroom items nicked of me now. Does anyone know the freezing points of Lynx deodorant and shower gel. Thinking of putting in freezer overnight and making a dash to the airport before they become liquid again.
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Paarmo - you are still missing the point. It's about consistancy - nothing else.
I have a 'red' pass, I am not an airport/airline employee and I am someone who has been vetted in excess of anything a security operative has or needs - this is not a state secret so I compare my experiences to when I go through to my office to when I go through as SLF on a weekly basis. I get more grief going airside to my place of work than I do as SLF getting on an aircraft.
Consistancy missing I'd say.
Conclusion - as SLF I do not register on the security operatives radar when actually that's the time I really should register but as a 'red' pass holder being searched by the holder of a lesser pass - I can be hassled and cajoled into reacting to their stupidity. So a lack of consistancy is the only conclusion I can reach.
Search me all you like - I don't really care. I care though when I am targeted for no good reason by people who know no better, who have not been properly vetted themselves and can't articulate why this happens when I ask them.
I still don't buy this rudeness thing when it comes to dealing with them - I still maintain it's a very small part of my day but what I can say is that it sticks out of my day as something completely out of proportion to the issue at hand.
And that Paarmo is most certainly down to them not doing their jobs properly and why it sticks outs like a sore thumb - many of those in the airside environment have to do their jobs properly because of legislation, licencing issues and the consequences of not doing their jobs is rather obvious. I know of no intervention by a security operative, in a UK airport, that has made the slightest bit of difference for the reasons being given now for the regimes that are operating.
I'm happy for you to educate me though.
I have a 'red' pass, I am not an airport/airline employee and I am someone who has been vetted in excess of anything a security operative has or needs - this is not a state secret so I compare my experiences to when I go through to my office to when I go through as SLF on a weekly basis. I get more grief going airside to my place of work than I do as SLF getting on an aircraft.
Consistancy missing I'd say.
Conclusion - as SLF I do not register on the security operatives radar when actually that's the time I really should register but as a 'red' pass holder being searched by the holder of a lesser pass - I can be hassled and cajoled into reacting to their stupidity. So a lack of consistancy is the only conclusion I can reach.
Search me all you like - I don't really care. I care though when I am targeted for no good reason by people who know no better, who have not been properly vetted themselves and can't articulate why this happens when I ask them.
I still don't buy this rudeness thing when it comes to dealing with them - I still maintain it's a very small part of my day but what I can say is that it sticks out of my day as something completely out of proportion to the issue at hand.
And that Paarmo is most certainly down to them not doing their jobs properly and why it sticks outs like a sore thumb - many of those in the airside environment have to do their jobs properly because of legislation, licencing issues and the consequences of not doing their jobs is rather obvious. I know of no intervention by a security operative, in a UK airport, that has made the slightest bit of difference for the reasons being given now for the regimes that are operating.
I'm happy for you to educate me though.
The Cooler King
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Stunning performance from the screeners at Manchester.
Police officer:
Overalls and webbing
Extendable baton
Heckler and Koch MP5
Spare clip
Leatherman
Side arm
"You can't bring that through, sir"
"Sorry? What?"
"The banana, sir. That has to stay.....and the water too."
He left it there, but stood and looked at him right in the face for probably the longest three seconds of the screener's life, then carried on through.
Police officer:
Overalls and webbing
Extendable baton
Heckler and Koch MP5
Spare clip
Leatherman
Side arm
"You can't bring that through, sir"
"Sorry? What?"
"The banana, sir. That has to stay.....and the water too."
He left it there, but stood and looked at him right in the face for probably the longest three seconds of the screener's life, then carried on through.
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Should have nicked him for obstruction. A well fed and lubricated (not to mention vetted/trained/motivated) police officer with a MP-5 is in the public's interest in an airport.
Paarmo - are you reading this? Does it even register?
Police Officer = effective physical protection from the forces of evil.
Security Operative on the minimum wage manning a gate to guard against police officers with bananas = a farce.
Paarmo - are you reading this? Does it even register?
Police Officer = effective physical protection from the forces of evil.
Security Operative on the minimum wage manning a gate to guard against police officers with bananas = a farce.