Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
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If pilots are the one group that can bypass security screening, the bad guys will know this and we will become the way in.
It's fairly straightforward: you get a phone call on your way to work, telling you that your family is being held and will come to serious harm very soon unless you comply.
They don't tell you to crash your own aircraft. Instead, they want you to pick up a package, deliver it airside, and go about your business.
If we're searched like passengers, this loophole is closed and the problem never arises.
It's fairly straightforward: you get a phone call on your way to work, telling you that your family is being held and will come to serious harm very soon unless you comply.
They don't tell you to crash your own aircraft. Instead, they want you to pick up a package, deliver it airside, and go about your business.
If we're searched like passengers, this loophole is closed and the problem never arises.
It's so nice to read someone who understands the threats for once.
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Smudge and Rsuggitt
Can you kindly explain how this scenario correlates to taking water, nail clippers or prescribed medication through security. We ALL know these things are about as much use to a terrorist as t*ts are on a bull.
No one is complaining about being screened for explosives, guns, hand grenades or semtex, but do you not think that stopping me taking my nail clippers in my flight bag is a bit far feched?
Oh no, wait - I can see the terrorist headbutting the re-inforced door down now, diving into my flight bag and using my nail-clippers to take over the aircraft ..... get real!!!
No one is complaining about being screened for explosives, guns, hand grenades or semtex, but do you not think that stopping me taking my nail clippers in my flight bag is a bit far feched?
Oh no, wait - I can see the terrorist headbutting the re-inforced door down now, diving into my flight bag and using my nail-clippers to take over the aircraft ..... get real!!!
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No one is complaining about being screened for explosives, guns, hand grenades or semtex,
Can you kindly explain how this scenario correlates to taking water, nail clippers or prescribed medication through security. We ALL know these things are about as much use to a terrorist as t*ts are on a bull.
So it's sensible to prevent other than very small quantities of liquids being carried on board.
And if aircrew are thirsty, I'm sure there will be water on board the plane.
The prescription drugs.... well, that does seem a bit strange, and I dont defend it.
Nailclippers.... am I right in thinking that the 9/11 terrorists used very small weapons (knives) to overcome the crew? And dont some nailclippers include a blade?
So to be safe, it's better to include a blanket ban, dont you think. Why in any case would aircrew need nailclippers available during a flight?
And before anyone says 'pilots could crash the plane anyway', I think we've established the principle that what we're trying to protect against is the possibility that aircrew could be coerced to carrying something on board, or could be impersonated.
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Nailclipper
Nailclippers.... am I right in thinking that the 9/11 terrorists used very small weapons (knives) to overcome the crew? And dont some nailclippers include a blade?
So to be safe, it's better to include a blanket ban, dont you think. Why in any case would aircrew need nailclippers available during a flight?
So to be safe, it's better to include a blanket ban, dont you think. Why in any case would aircrew need nailclippers available during a flight?
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If pilots are the one group that can bypass security screening, the bad guys will know this and we will become the way in.
It's fairly straightforward: you get a phone call on your way to work, telling you that your family is being held and will come to serious harm very soon unless you comply.
It's fairly straightforward: you get a phone call on your way to work, telling you that your family is being held and will come to serious harm very soon unless you comply.
Mate, you're in the realms of fantasy:
Aircrew have a number of ways of alerting the police to any problems.
And, as the police are free to come and go with their weapons, are their families not a better target?
Finally, why would you need a pilot courier when retailers ship in vast quantities of stuff and trucks come and go with only a cursory check; or how about the stuff is just thrown over the fence to be picked up later. Or perhaps as the rest of the world (Australia excepted) isn't stupidly anal about crew and liquids, they could be sipped in from the other end.
As usual with the this government, it wants to be seen to be doing things, however worthless they really are. A good example of this being the obsession with CRCs which means companies employ unchecked foreigners rather than wait the 6+ weeks for a Brit to be checked - idiotic!
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Nailclippers.... am I right in thinking that the 9/11 terrorists used very small weapons (knives) to overcome the crew? And dont some nailclippers include a blade?
So to be safe, it's better to include a blanket ban, dont you think.
So to be safe, it's better to include a blanket ban, dont you think.
Why in any case would aircrew need nailclippers available during a flight?
Last edited by blimey; 22nd Aug 2008 at 12:37.
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Please, the knife that you are provided with during the meal is both longer and sharper than your nail clipper blade. Have you ever been onboard an aircraft?
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Finally, why would you need a pilot courier when retailers ship in vast quantities of stuff and trucks come and go with only a cursory check; or how about the stuff is just thrown over the fence to be picked up later
Has anyone attacked an aircraft using material smuggled airside by someone else, or by using material thrown over a fence? Not as far as I recollect.
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You'll be very much in favour of Sihks not being allowed to bring their kirpans airside then. And of course, no glass onboard!
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What about the Fedex flight where the deadhead had a guitar case full of hammers, which he used to attack the crew ? Air Crew should have the same checks as passengers, they should lead by example. I find it frightening to see on this forum how many pilots have "power-play" issues, these people should not be airline pilots.
Has anyone attacked an aircraft using material smuggled airside by someone else, or by using material thrown over a fence? Not as far as I recollect.
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I don't recollect anyone attacked an aircraft using material smuggled airside by a pilot either
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Rsuggitt comments on many things but he avoids commenting on "glass onboard". For sure, a broken bottle is a much more dangerous and lethal weapon than nailclippers. Still, bottles are not prohibited. It makes no sense.
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Paarmo gone, rsuggit took his place....
Witnessed just yesterday, going through security:
SS (security staff): Gonna do a liquid test on you love
Aircrew (female pilot): Oh you did one every day for the past week so go ahead (smiling ironically)
SS: Well you always come in at the same times we have to do liquid tests. It's because you are carrying them, we have to test them. Stop carrying them and we won't test them.
(me waiting to go through thinking are you for real????)
Aircrew: I understand DfT's requirements but this looks a bit strange, me being searched and screened EVERY day
SS: take your shoes off
Aircrew: But.. the gate didn't beep.... ok here you go.
SS muttering: serves you right for messing with me; turns around to the pilot: well if you don't like it you shouldn't have become a pilot, innit love?
Goes to prove what subspecies DfT employs. Regardless the fact that the DfT has the most outrageous rules when it comes to pilots going through security (we all know that a pilot has the deadliest weapon on his hands and that's the a/c itself, so what's he/she gonna do with a nail clipper, clip a pax's nails to death??), the DfT ALSO is to blame for employing UK's "finest" council estates representatives.
Get a grip and why not replace the so called "security staff" with REAL, trained police officers and then we'll stop complaining about liquid tests?? I have respect for a police officer; a simple security staff with 2 days training does NOT impress me.
Oh i know, it'll cost you more...
Want top notch security, aircrew and pax wise? Pay up and stop asking me to show my crew bag to a spotted oik with NO real security training.
Rgds,
ATS
PS: brakedwell, use IGNORE like many others did with Paarmo. Works wonders!
Witnessed just yesterday, going through security:
SS (security staff): Gonna do a liquid test on you love
Aircrew (female pilot): Oh you did one every day for the past week so go ahead (smiling ironically)
SS: Well you always come in at the same times we have to do liquid tests. It's because you are carrying them, we have to test them. Stop carrying them and we won't test them.
(me waiting to go through thinking are you for real????)
Aircrew: I understand DfT's requirements but this looks a bit strange, me being searched and screened EVERY day
SS: take your shoes off
Aircrew: But.. the gate didn't beep.... ok here you go.
SS muttering: serves you right for messing with me; turns around to the pilot: well if you don't like it you shouldn't have become a pilot, innit love?
Goes to prove what subspecies DfT employs. Regardless the fact that the DfT has the most outrageous rules when it comes to pilots going through security (we all know that a pilot has the deadliest weapon on his hands and that's the a/c itself, so what's he/she gonna do with a nail clipper, clip a pax's nails to death??
), the DfT ALSO is to blame for employing UK's "finest" council estates representatives. Get a grip and why not replace the so called "security staff" with REAL, trained police officers and then we'll stop complaining about liquid tests?? I have respect for a police officer; a simple security staff with 2 days training does NOT impress me.
Oh i know, it'll cost you more...
Want top notch security, aircrew and pax wise? Pay up and stop asking me to show my crew bag to a spotted oik with NO real security training.
Rgds,
ATS
PS: brakedwell, use IGNORE like many others did with Paarmo. Works wonders!
Last edited by Abusing_the_sky; 24th Aug 2008 at 18:32.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Well you always come in at the same times we have to do liquid tests
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I think the real anti-terror work is done far away from the 'front line' of airport security, by police and intelligence officers.
Although I would hardly say the security staff are fools, it would be interesting to see what training they actually receive.
And....
Does anyone check the ID of the security staff?
Atreyu
Although I would hardly say the security staff are fools, it would be interesting to see what training they actually receive.
And....
Does anyone check the ID of the security staff?
Atreyu
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wheelchair
My wife uses an electric dry cell wheelchair. At every check in she is gently patted down and allowed to drive her wheelchair through security. This is a machine that has batteries, electrics, etc. Does anybody wonder what is in the big box under the chair?
rsuggit #905
Hasn't it occurred to your pea brain that the crew member might not actually want nail clippers during a flight, but he/she might not actually be going home that night either, he/she might actually be trying to sleep at some anti-social hour in some hotel besieged by lager louts keeping the bar open until all hours with their boom boxes at 150 Db and might actually want to carry a toilet case with razors, and nail clippers, and toothpaste and after shave and deodorant and Lomitol and a host of other things that, travelling frequently, one keeps in a standard kit that gets thrown in the overnight bag regardless,without having to be customised before every departure, and that for Shorthaul crew an overnight bag carried on to the aircraft is all that is necessary, no hold bag to be loaded upside down, wrecked, or lost ? Therefore said items have to go through crew security. Get a Life and start brain before putting mouth into gear.
And to the other idiot, whose name I have already suppressed, but who thinks that this is a Power Play, you have totally missed the point - this is a Flight Crew forum exchanging comments about the totally unreasonable approach to security that crew have to put up with EVERY time that they go to work, they are not moaning about security per se, just the unreasonable, and largely useless, excessive application of security measures by total deadheads, mostly. I'm glad in this respect that I'm now ex-crew, I doubt that I would have the patience to put up with it now.
I could add a host of Mickey Mouse experiences that I was subjected to,to the many that have been quoted here, sadly nothing changes. Maybe it needs a concerted effort by every crew member to refuse en masse at Heathrow one day - just close the place down until sense prevails - but I guess it never would, even then -but it might hit the Press and make the bean counters notice !
I have just found my IGNORE command - for both of you. Goodnight.
Why in any case would aircrew need nailclippers available during a flight?
And to the other idiot, whose name I have already suppressed, but who thinks that this is a Power Play, you have totally missed the point - this is a Flight Crew forum exchanging comments about the totally unreasonable approach to security that crew have to put up with EVERY time that they go to work, they are not moaning about security per se, just the unreasonable, and largely useless, excessive application of security measures by total deadheads, mostly. I'm glad in this respect that I'm now ex-crew, I doubt that I would have the patience to put up with it now.
I could add a host of Mickey Mouse experiences that I was subjected to,to the many that have been quoted here, sadly nothing changes. Maybe it needs a concerted effort by every crew member to refuse en masse at Heathrow one day - just close the place down until sense prevails - but I guess it never would, even then -but it might hit the Press and make the bean counters notice !
I have just found my IGNORE command - for both of you. Goodnight.