Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
Join Date: Jun 2008
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On this topic, here is an interesting one to ponder. I am working at a busy European airport. Anyway during my training in regard to air safety I was told by an airport official that a pilot travelling in the jump seat had a claw hammer in his carry on luggage. Once at altitude he struck the captain across the head. The first officer then over powered him and made an emergency landing.
Apparently the pilot in the jump seat wasn't screened correctly for whatever reason, I don't know.
So just a thought, you might have good intentions of flying safely from A to B, the guy helping you fly may not.
Its the world we live in guys and I suppose every little is worth doing when it come to air safety.
Apparently the pilot in the jump seat wasn't screened correctly for whatever reason, I don't know.
So just a thought, you might have good intentions of flying safely from A to B, the guy helping you fly may not.
Its the world we live in guys and I suppose every little is worth doing when it come to air safety.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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speed demond,
pilots are not saying they do not want to be screened/ have baggage checked. what they are saying is they want to be able to take a juice on board so they can drink it during the day.
on some airlines like ryanair, if crew want to have a sandwich and a drink, they have to pay full price like the pax.
other crew have stop overs. they may only be one or two nights so why bother packing the sink and then having to wait for it to come out at baggage claim. why not just take a small bag on board with you and once you land you go to the hotel without delay. crew get 8 hours rest. but then they have to travel to and from the aircraft in that time as well. every extra minute you have in bed helps.
yes screening was not done well on that flight you stated (i believe its the fedex flight your talking about), but as someone has already stated here, when bags are screened why are the security staff chatting away?
crew complain about having silly things like the knife you get on board to eat with si taken off them at security.
with bottles, fine you get a tamper proof bag when you buy your bottle of bacardi, but a tamper proof bag will not help anyone when you rip it open at 33,000ft, take the cap of the bottle and stuff a napkin down the neck. hey presto you have yourself a bomb which you can light with the safty matches you carry on board with you, which are allowed.
pilots are not saying they do not want to be screened/ have baggage checked. what they are saying is they want to be able to take a juice on board so they can drink it during the day.
on some airlines like ryanair, if crew want to have a sandwich and a drink, they have to pay full price like the pax.
other crew have stop overs. they may only be one or two nights so why bother packing the sink and then having to wait for it to come out at baggage claim. why not just take a small bag on board with you and once you land you go to the hotel without delay. crew get 8 hours rest. but then they have to travel to and from the aircraft in that time as well. every extra minute you have in bed helps.
yes screening was not done well on that flight you stated (i believe its the fedex flight your talking about), but as someone has already stated here, when bags are screened why are the security staff chatting away?
crew complain about having silly things like the knife you get on board to eat with si taken off them at security.
with bottles, fine you get a tamper proof bag when you buy your bottle of bacardi, but a tamper proof bag will not help anyone when you rip it open at 33,000ft, take the cap of the bottle and stuff a napkin down the neck. hey presto you have yourself a bomb which you can light with the safty matches you carry on board with you, which are allowed.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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So what do we want to change in the UK ?
In the UK the changes that are necessary to prevent 99% of the problems are as follows
1 A common security standard at ALL airports so that crew know exactly what is allowed and what is not.
2 A robust and effective complaints procedure that is indipendent of the security management.
If this was put in place most of the problems would disappear as the source of most disputes is from crews away from home base that has to abide by unfamilure local rules.
At the moment the all the security staff hide behind the management who delay and hinder complaints (it took the BAA at STN 3 months to reply to me!). If they had to answer to an independent body they would be a lot less aggressive.
1 A common security standard at ALL airports so that crew know exactly what is allowed and what is not.
2 A robust and effective complaints procedure that is indipendent of the security management.
If this was put in place most of the problems would disappear as the source of most disputes is from crews away from home base that has to abide by unfamilure local rules.
At the moment the all the security staff hide behind the management who delay and hinder complaints (it took the BAA at STN 3 months to reply to me!). If they had to answer to an independent body they would be a lot less aggressive.
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If they hold a SIA licence - report them to the SIA. If they don't - go to the DfT. Put the ball in their court - they cannot ignore your complaint - they are obliged in law to respond to you.
If you believe you've been assaulted - report the operative to the Police.
Don't muck about anymore - just do it.
If you believe you've been assaulted - report the operative to the Police.
Don't muck about anymore - just do it.
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First post in a while - without wishing to detract away from the original topic, what's always illuminated itself to me is it seems that if somebody wishes to cause mass havoc/panic, further drugs trafficking, smuggle other illegal items and all other eventualities associated with the reasoning behind airport security, it would be alarmingly easy to turn to GA and use smaller airports/fields without the presence of security and/or customs. I know if I had such intent, that's where I would turn. Sure, a 172 doesn't make as big a hole as a 747, but in essence doesn't anybody agree that perhaps this is another string to the bow re the argument against such nanny statism as far as security goes?
Cheers, and just my two cents,
Jack
Cheers, and just my two cents,
Jack
Our Nanny State would respond to that argument by imposing full security for GA fields, which would go a long way towards killing GA - something they probably would quite like. Best not mention it then 
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Personally, I felt that HBB had an extremely good point. A 172, or 525 or bigger that would operate from a smaller strip could make - (from some people's perspective) - a quite satisfactory hole in the Houses of Parliament without the loss of life associated with a 747. Publicity is all - it's probably just a matter of time.
Mmmmm PPruuune!
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Within the last week Brs decided to remove my 75cl bottle of aftershave due to the 75cl markings having rubbed off - no dicussion - bottle has no markings so not allowed even after presenting an exact same tester loaned from duty free. Bfs decided my plastic bag was too big - took bag as is and placed in a smaller bag which was re-xrayed and voila now its ok
All in the name of security
All in the name of security
This published this morning in The New Zealand Herald -'tis the same the world over, sadly ........
Strange security (non) threat #3: When Craig Taylor stepped off a plane in Sydney, the air hostess gave him a small bottle of orange juice that was left over. "I then went to the security checkpoint, as I was travelling on to Auckland. As the bag passed through the x-ray, the security officer exclaimed, "he's got a bottle of drink!" I was given the option of "skolling" the item or surrendering it. I surrendered it - then took 12 paces into the secure area and bought another one from the first shop I came to."
Unfortunately the security idiots will say that the one you bought had been security screened, tasted tested and subject to every filter known to man ( Ha Ha ! ) whereas yours was obviously neat explosive.
Strange security (non) threat #3: When Craig Taylor stepped off a plane in Sydney, the air hostess gave him a small bottle of orange juice that was left over. "I then went to the security checkpoint, as I was travelling on to Auckland. As the bag passed through the x-ray, the security officer exclaimed, "he's got a bottle of drink!" I was given the option of "skolling" the item or surrendering it. I surrendered it - then took 12 paces into the secure area and bought another one from the first shop I came to."
Unfortunately the security idiots will say that the one you bought had been security screened, tasted tested and subject to every filter known to man ( Ha Ha ! ) whereas yours was obviously neat explosive.
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It seems that reason will get us nowhere in this 'debate'. I can only assume that the only possible explanation as to why pilots are subjected to humiliation and degredation, is that we can be. It also gives some bitter people the opportunity to extract revenge for our privileged position.
If that's not it, then tell me why we're doing this?
I'm afraid the only casualty in this is security (sic), which has now descended into a farcical stand off between pilots and the scanner wardens.
If that's not it, then tell me why we're doing this?
I'm afraid the only casualty in this is security (sic), which has now descended into a farcical stand off between pilots and the scanner wardens.
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I made a deal with the young security screener who confiscated my 130 ml bottle of after shave (with about 30 mls left in it), from my shaving kit.
(130 ml bottles don't travel)
I told him he gets to take my bottle of after shave but he had to listen to my rant in exchange, without arresting me. (you have the option of leaving security screening to put it in your checked baggage) I explained that I needed to lower my stress level before boarding my flight because this total lack of common sense, 'discretion', or use of 'prudence' in the application of security screening regs was starting to wear thin these 7 years later.
If I had to sit on the same aeroplane with "x" number of pax and their 1 liter bottles of duty free booze then something didn't add up.
"...excuse me, Sir, the wine is in a sealed bottle!!!"
Silly me, what was I thinking?
(130 ml bottles don't travel)
I told him he gets to take my bottle of after shave but he had to listen to my rant in exchange, without arresting me. (you have the option of leaving security screening to put it in your checked baggage) I explained that I needed to lower my stress level before boarding my flight because this total lack of common sense, 'discretion', or use of 'prudence' in the application of security screening regs was starting to wear thin these 7 years later.
If I had to sit on the same aeroplane with "x" number of pax and their 1 liter bottles of duty free booze then something didn't add up.
"...excuse me, Sir, the wine is in a sealed bottle!!!"
Silly me, what was I thinking?
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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Having bitched about certain airports may I now give a bouquet?
Recently travelled on leave through LGW North. Approaching security my brain went into daily hassle mode and I removed watch (I'm a pilot, it's a big bugger), belt, change, wallet etc and put them through the scanner. I went through the arch and went ping. The security guy was superb. Ex forces and retired police I found out as he went through handheld metal detector and pat down routine. He had seen the shedding of gear I'd gone through and couldn't believe it when the detector went off. Eventually I was waved through by a man who had smiled, been polite and not made me feel the slightest bit inconvienienced. As I gathered up my kit he said "I'm sure that thing is set to go off every 18 passes whether it detects or not."
However, we then got to the shoe check where a loud woman was demanding the usual removal, a familly with young kids approached and she shouted at everyone to get out of their way and put their shoes back on so the familly could pass. That incident provided a lot of food for thought..
VH
Recently travelled on leave through LGW North. Approaching security my brain went into daily hassle mode and I removed watch (I'm a pilot, it's a big bugger), belt, change, wallet etc and put them through the scanner. I went through the arch and went ping. The security guy was superb. Ex forces and retired police I found out as he went through handheld metal detector and pat down routine. He had seen the shedding of gear I'd gone through and couldn't believe it when the detector went off. Eventually I was waved through by a man who had smiled, been polite and not made me feel the slightest bit inconvienienced. As I gathered up my kit he said "I'm sure that thing is set to go off every 18 passes whether it detects or not."
However, we then got to the shoe check where a loud woman was demanding the usual removal, a familly with young kids approached and she shouted at everyone to get out of their way and put their shoes back on so the familly could pass. That incident provided a lot of food for thought..
VH
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On this topic, here is an interesting one to ponder. I am working at a busy European airport. Anyway during my training in regard to air safety I was told by an airport official that a pilot travelling in the jump seat had a claw hammer in his carry on luggage. Once at altitude he struck the captain across the head. The first officer then over powered him and made an emergency landing.
Apparently the pilot in the jump seat wasn't screened correctly for whatever reason, I don't know.
So just a thought, you might have good intentions of flying safely from A to B, the guy helping you fly may not.
Its the world we live in guys and I suppose every little is worth doing when it come to air safety.
Apparently the pilot in the jump seat wasn't screened correctly for whatever reason, I don't know.
So just a thought, you might have good intentions of flying safely from A to B, the guy helping you fly may not.
Its the world we live in guys and I suppose every little is worth doing when it come to air safety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Flight_705
FedEx_705_(by_apapele182).wmv
Last edited by lc_aerobatics; 2nd Sep 2008 at 20:01.
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Since the reference to Molotov cocktails made from duty free liquors and matches has appeared now twice, let's puts things in clear: it can't be done.
Try yourself, get the highest proof liquor, matches, put a rug in the bottle neck or whatever you want, try to set it on fire or make it explode. You will see what I mean. Molotov's are NOT made like that.
Then to have even more fun try that, get on a plane, prepare you little device and threaten people as you like. Let me know how it ends
Try yourself, get the highest proof liquor, matches, put a rug in the bottle neck or whatever you want, try to set it on fire or make it explode. You will see what I mean. Molotov's are NOT made like that.
Then to have even more fun try that, get on a plane, prepare you little device and threaten people as you like. Let me know how it ends
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So just to clear one thing up, the risks associated with Smirnoffotov Cocktails are about the same as those posed by nail clippers. Interesting!
I put forward the motion that a broken glass bottle that previously contained said incendary device IS however a leathal weapon. Then again, how many times has this one been put forward and promptly ignored?
RIX
I put forward the motion that a broken glass bottle that previously contained said incendary device IS however a leathal weapon. Then again, how many times has this one been put forward and promptly ignored?
RIX
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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In a former life in the army I was taught how to make a lethal weapon from a newspaper. Just think of all those CC handing out lethal weapons at the aircraft door.
VH
VH