Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
Glass half full, or Glass half empty ?
There are two ways of looking at everything.
The early hihackings only really inconvenienced everyone, not many deaths, just the odd nightstop in Cuba ( or Dawsons Field, where they torched 3 empty aircraft ) but since 9/11 the picture has changed, and now if subject to a hijack one might as well consider oneself dead, being an unwilling suicide bomber, so why not have a go at the terrorists, like those on board the 4th aircraft in 9/11 did, those passengers were just as dead in a Maryland field as if they had been embedded against the walls of the White House – if that was the target, and they prevented a worse tragedy.
So – instead of removing nail clippers and Swiss Army knives from passengers, why don’t we GIVE every passenger a Swiss Army knife ? If 400 knife bearing passengers rise up and attack the hijackers, what chance success for either party ?
Even if the pax. fail to get superority, the aircraft might crash, or blow up, short of the target, as the Maryland one did, and if one is undoubtedly going to lose ones’ life anyway – why not, and if a few pax, or a few hijackers die, but the primary objective is thwarted, isn't that better than a total disaster against a defenceless target ? And who knows, once the hijackers have been killed there might actually be someone on board who could get the aircraft down somewhere in less then a dozen pieces and save at least some lives ?
As we are on the brink of World War III anyway ............Just a thought !
The early hihackings only really inconvenienced everyone, not many deaths, just the odd nightstop in Cuba ( or Dawsons Field, where they torched 3 empty aircraft ) but since 9/11 the picture has changed, and now if subject to a hijack one might as well consider oneself dead, being an unwilling suicide bomber, so why not have a go at the terrorists, like those on board the 4th aircraft in 9/11 did, those passengers were just as dead in a Maryland field as if they had been embedded against the walls of the White House – if that was the target, and they prevented a worse tragedy.
So – instead of removing nail clippers and Swiss Army knives from passengers, why don’t we GIVE every passenger a Swiss Army knife ? If 400 knife bearing passengers rise up and attack the hijackers, what chance success for either party ?
Even if the pax. fail to get superority, the aircraft might crash, or blow up, short of the target, as the Maryland one did, and if one is undoubtedly going to lose ones’ life anyway – why not, and if a few pax, or a few hijackers die, but the primary objective is thwarted, isn't that better than a total disaster against a defenceless target ? And who knows, once the hijackers have been killed there might actually be someone on board who could get the aircraft down somewhere in less then a dozen pieces and save at least some lives ?
As we are on the brink of World War III anyway ............Just a thought !
So – instead of removing nail clippers and Swiss Army knives from passengers, why don’t we GIVE every passenger a Swiss Army knife ? If 400 knife bearing passengers rise up and attack the hijackers, what chance success for either party ?
Even if the pax. fail to get superority, the aircraft might crash, or blow up, short of the target, as the Maryland one did, and if one is undoubtedly going to lose ones’ life anyway – why not, and if a few pax, or a few hijackers die, but the primary objective is thwarted, isn't that better than a total disaster against a defenceless target ? And who knows, once the hijackers have been killed there might actually be someone on board who could get the aircraft down somewhere in less then a dozen pieces and save at least some lives ?
As we are on the brink of World War III anyway ............Just a thought !
Even if the pax. fail to get superority, the aircraft might crash, or blow up, short of the target, as the Maryland one did, and if one is undoubtedly going to lose ones’ life anyway – why not, and if a few pax, or a few hijackers die, but the primary objective is thwarted, isn't that better than a total disaster against a defenceless target ? And who knows, once the hijackers have been killed there might actually be someone on board who could get the aircraft down somewhere in less then a dozen pieces and save at least some lives ?
As we are on the brink of World War III anyway ............Just a thought !
Ok yes they have other security procedures including (surprise, surprise!) the profiling of "suspicuous passengers!
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Rsuggitt, I can no longer take you seriously because you claim to believe that terrorists could coerce a pilot to smuggle a swiss army knife for them.
Sure, it´s possible but since there´s much easier and more efficient ways of obtaining a knife, once airside, you are obviously not discussing the issue in a serious way.
It´s much more likely that terrorists will coerce a pilot into unlocking the flight deck door for them. Airport security doesn´t do anything to prevent that.
Basically anything is possible but that doesn´t necessarily mean that it´s very likely to happend, I could be struck by lightning at exactly the same time that you too are struck by lightning...
I.e. terrorists are not likely to coerce a pilot to smuggle a swiss army knife for them, it´s more likely that they will coerce a pilot to smuggle a pistol for them. That´s why I mean that security should only screen pilots for items like guns and bombs, not nailclippers and water (which the terrorists can smuggle themselves, deciliter by deciliter).
Sure, it´s possible but since there´s much easier and more efficient ways of obtaining a knife, once airside, you are obviously not discussing the issue in a serious way.
It´s much more likely that terrorists will coerce a pilot into unlocking the flight deck door for them. Airport security doesn´t do anything to prevent that.
Basically anything is possible but that doesn´t necessarily mean that it´s very likely to happend, I could be struck by lightning at exactly the same time that you too are struck by lightning...
I.e. terrorists are not likely to coerce a pilot to smuggle a swiss army knife for them, it´s more likely that they will coerce a pilot to smuggle a pistol for them. That´s why I mean that security should only screen pilots for items like guns and bombs, not nailclippers and water (which the terrorists can smuggle themselves, deciliter by deciliter).
Last edited by Ladusvala; 14th Aug 2008 at 06:32.
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"Rsuggitt, I can no longer take you seriously because you claim to believe that terrorists could coerce a pilot to smuggle a swiss army knife for them."
I'm afraid that the lack-of-taking-seriously is mutual, because you do not appear to be able to read properly.
While I did say that I saw coercion as being a possible threat, I said nothing about the nature of the coercion in general or swiss army knives in particular. Where did you get that from I wonder. If you want to discuss the issue with me, I suggest you refer to the things I actually said, not the things you made up.
I'm afraid that the lack-of-taking-seriously is mutual, because you do not appear to be able to read properly.
While I did say that I saw coercion as being a possible threat, I said nothing about the nature of the coercion in general or swiss army knives in particular. Where did you get that from I wonder. If you want to discuss the issue with me, I suggest you refer to the things I actually said, not the things you made up.
Slightly off thread but I thought this was interesting!
Black air passenger awarded £4,000 after being stopped three times before flight
Black air passenger awarded £4,000 after being stopped three times before flight
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Racist, my favorite term.
I am all for "Racial Profiling," except here in Canada all the minimum wage, security goof-balls, are immigrants.
Only certain segments of society are forbidden from being Racist!
Funny how I fly to Japan and get refused service in some restaurants...:"Nippon Only."
I'd love to see a restaurant in Europe or North America toss a customer out for race?
I am all for "Racial Profiling," except here in Canada all the minimum wage, security goof-balls, are immigrants.
Only certain segments of society are forbidden from being Racist!
Funny how I fly to Japan and get refused service in some restaurants...:"Nippon Only."
I'd love to see a restaurant in Europe or North America toss a customer out for race?
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Re post #843
Possibly all you would need is someone able to carry on a radio conversation, accept simple instructions, and set up autoland.
On the perennial question of water, there was a report several pages back that empty bottles went through the scanner without doing more than puzzling the operators, and could then be filled with anything one chose (including tap water) once airside. If you must take your own water on board, be green and re-use the bottles.
And who knows, once the hijackers have been killed there might actually be someone on board who could get the aircraft down somewhere in less then a dozen pieces and save at least some lives ?
Possibly all you would need is someone able to carry on a radio conversation, accept simple instructions, and set up autoland.
On the perennial question of water, there was a report several pages back that empty bottles went through the scanner without doing more than puzzling the operators, and could then be filled with anything one chose (including tap water) once airside. If you must take your own water on board, be green and re-use the bottles.
Dairyground - Water
My wife always does that, finding the dubious sanctity of the toilet taps, or frequently sucked water fountains, preferable to the rank taste of the water from the When-Were-They-Last-Cleaned aircraft tanks, but it wouldn't take much imagination for a team of low-lifes to provide a supply of Heavy Water on the other side and then manufacture a Nuke on board ! Just what is the point of not being allowed to take a new, unsealed, bottle of Evian Water - or similar - on board, or an unopened Coke can. Inmates running the Asylum - again.
My wife always does that, finding the dubious sanctity of the toilet taps, or frequently sucked water fountains, preferable to the rank taste of the water from the When-Were-They-Last-Cleaned aircraft tanks, but it wouldn't take much imagination for a team of low-lifes to provide a supply of Heavy Water on the other side and then manufacture a Nuke on board ! Just what is the point of not being allowed to take a new, unsealed, bottle of Evian Water - or similar - on board, or an unopened Coke can. Inmates running the Asylum - again.
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ExSp33db1rd, sure you can bring on board any drink you like. It's just that you've to buy it after security where they cost more.
So the shop guys make a buck, that is not so crazy
So the shop guys make a buck, that is not so crazy
You mean buy water ? It's more expensive than petrol in Airport shops !
The wholepoint of this thread is to highlight the total idiocy of the way everybody, and crew in particular, are being treated by airport security staff Worldwide. It's a whole new culture of power and intimidation for absolutely minimal cost effectiveness, we all know that the bad boys will do precisely what they want, when they want to do it. Cabin crew particularly should be armed in some way, not disarmed, so that they might at least have a chance to thwart an attack - difficult for pax. to get organised however heroic they might be.
I might accept the concept of heightened security if it weren't for the brainless way it is being applied.
Sorry, I may be bigotted, but it's not negotiable.
The wholepoint of this thread is to highlight the total idiocy of the way everybody, and crew in particular, are being treated by airport security staff Worldwide. It's a whole new culture of power and intimidation for absolutely minimal cost effectiveness, we all know that the bad boys will do precisely what they want, when they want to do it. Cabin crew particularly should be armed in some way, not disarmed, so that they might at least have a chance to thwart an attack - difficult for pax. to get organised however heroic they might be.
I might accept the concept of heightened security if it weren't for the brainless way it is being applied.
Sorry, I may be bigotted, but it's not negotiable.
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El #, not completely true. As we know, after you've passed through security at many airports you'll have the opportunity to purchase duty-free, bottles of water, coffee, etc. For Australia-bound flights, where Australia is the immediate next stop (eg, a flight leaving from HKG bound for SYD), you'll have such purchases confiscated at a secondary screening point set up on the aerobridge itself. And the same process applies to crew! Flight planning on the aircraft with a Starbucks now? Don't even think about it....
Yeah, the guy in the shop makes a buck and you end up with nothing!
Australia's lunatics, sitting in the asylum boardroom, running the "war on terror"
Yeah, the guy in the shop makes a buck and you end up with nothing!
Australia's lunatics, sitting in the asylum boardroom, running the "war on terror"
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Returning peoples property
There is a piece about Shanghai and the Olympic Games in today's on-line Telegraph. Towards the end it explains how the Chinese Airport security staff deal with items that have been confiscated.
It seems that all such items taken at Departures are placed in big boxes at Arrivals so that pax and crew arriving back into China can reclaim items similar to those taken from them at no financial loss to themselves.
It doesn't say how high value items such as expensive perfumes and aftershaves are dealt with.
What an excellent idea. It would certainly help to dispel my nagging worry that items 'stolen' from law abiding folk at UK airports end up on the shelves of the local 'open all hours' thereby supplementing the income of the Security goons.
Here in the UK a receipt should be given for high value items so that they can be claimed back later from the Security company or the airport operator.
It seems that all such items taken at Departures are placed in big boxes at Arrivals so that pax and crew arriving back into China can reclaim items similar to those taken from them at no financial loss to themselves.
It doesn't say how high value items such as expensive perfumes and aftershaves are dealt with.
What an excellent idea. It would certainly help to dispel my nagging worry that items 'stolen' from law abiding folk at UK airports end up on the shelves of the local 'open all hours' thereby supplementing the income of the Security goons.
Here in the UK a receipt should be given for high value items so that they can be claimed back later from the Security company or the airport operator.
Here in the UK a receipt should be given for high value items so that they can be claimed back later from the Security company or the airport operator.
money!
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Romeo India Xray
Are you for real ?Plainly what`s needed is more pub bouncers regulating crew movement.One of your colleauges sent a private message asking " which side of the fence are you on ?"There is no fence, just commercial profit with aviation these days and how to increase it.And yes, crew members are a special case.l nearly quit the latest time of having my collar felt inside - literally - with latex gloves and being asked to sign to say that "l`d been done".The pat on the arse and " take that out" - obviously no please - revealed my freshly laundered hanky.Still in the crucifix stance coudn`t resist saying "would you like me to show you how it works ?"We have various gangs of drunks on board, flight safety ? forget that, some tart of a clerk needs to move `em on out of their area of responsibility.One of the few things l`m sure of is the next wave of terrorists will not be in the queue at check in.Ps. "l`d been done." lt was a pax list, so l scribbled out the bits that didn`t apply. lntake of breath all round. Ars***s.
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non iron you have a few storys about how security have treated you on here which make it quite clear you do not agree with the way things are done currently. you even state you nearly quit once.my first post is that i AGREE with you guys the pilots. i stated that in my private message to you albiet i am door staff in clubs which helps pay my daily expences while i finish of my IR rating, i believe that static guards, like they have in the airports are not good at their jobs. i fly frequently for the family business as well and have experianced airport security first hand myself many times.it seems to me that you have have not fully read or understood my first post. either that or you are not agreeing with what i have said, only to end up saying the same thing in different words. how am i a troll for stating what i had said? finaly in your reply to my private message you still have not answered my question or what you dont agree with from my first post.