BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat

[Vortex what...ouch!]

Originally Posted by Hotel Mode

They're strinking because BASSA told them to.
If you dont work in BA the hold BASSA have over the crew is difficult to understand. Their first point of contact is BASSA not the company. As an extreme example I landed in BKK about 90 mins after the coup, who do you think the crew rang first. Cabin Crew management? BA Security? Foreign Office? British Embassy? No BASSA (because obviously know about the situation on the streets)

That would certainly explain the intransigence of the cabin crew when anybody looking in from outside can see a strike in this case is not necessary. It will all end in tears and it really doesn’t have to.

[M.Mouse]

The generous staff travel (giving away the product)

Without wishing to hijack this thread I am afraid the truth regarding staff travel is rather different. It is a wonderful benefit but it is often unusable (e.g. the Far East most of the year, standby staff ticket holders are usually left behind) and, certainly for domestic flights, often more expensive than a full fare ticket on Easyjet!

[silverelise]

Question from an interested curious observer here - since BA have cancelled all flights, how does a non striking CC indicate their intention to work if they are rostered that day? Is it a case of turning up and sitting in the crew room for some thumb twiddling practice? Or are there other things that can be done?

[Deltahero]

Get real

M.Mouse, I agree that staff travel is a side issue and ours is poor compared to other airlines, but as I've had to cancel our annual knees up ( which is our main holi -unable to get summer off!! ) along with many others, Crew are going to come across a lot of bitter staff when they return to work. Their stock at work isn't great anyway, but it's about to plummet.
Oh how I wish they would get real.

[anotherthing]

Pay and conditions are always an emotive subject - no one ever thinks thet are paid enough (I know I don't think I am!) but having read the posts here, some stating the average number of sick days taken by CC (which is well above national average), and post number 657 by flaps33, I think that CC at BA are extremely well paid for what they do.

A CSD on circa £60k? Pursers on £30k. You also get fringe benefits to boot..... Time to wake up and smell the coffee I think.

The general public see you as nothing other than airborne waiters/waitresses.. 99.99% of the time, the job you do requires no thought process, no decision making. Dole out the food, flog duty frees, do a 5 minute safety brief. I think you will find that you are extremely well paid... higher than the average shop assistant.

Wiggy - BA is flag carrier in name only and only because of historical reasons. I would wager that BA is not the 'worlds favourite airline' that it claims on adverts; it's service is no better than any other non low cost carrier, and a hell of a lot worse than lots of other national carriers (not neccessarily down to the CC in that instance, but the service standards they are expected to provide).... it has a high proportion of pax on some routes because of the slot allocation at UK airports.

Merely being the national flag carrier is not a valid reason for giving employees better pay than other carriers - it does however behove the airine to provide a passenger service standard comparative with other flag carriers - which it falls far short of, especially when the over inflated prices BA charge to get any decent standard of service are taken into consideration.

This move will further damage BA's reputation, which will, in turn come back and bite it's employees

If, as Heliport states, BASSA are not even interested in speaking to ACAS; then BASSA are screwing their membership i.e. the CC who pay them subs to do a competent job; out of money. BASSA are not following a recognised procedure, they are going straight to strike action.

When you CC are manning your picket lines, just remember that ACAS could have possibly prevented all this.

Worth remembering even more is the fact that while you are on strike you will not be paid. While you are on strike, you do not pay (nor does the company) anything into your pension... your pension fund becomes degraded, you length of service for pension purposes becomes affected. Think about the knock on effect of your actions... the BASSA leaders (who urge you to strike) will be taking their pay home with them whilst you do not!!

[atyourcervix73]

Anotherthing...

Dole out the food, flog duty frees, do a 5 minute safety brief. I think you will find that you are extremely well paid... higher than the average shop assistant.

An observation yes, but not reality CC are not shop assistants...just as flightcrew are not bus drivers

I'm also interested anotherthing in this comment......

especially when the over inflated prices BA charge to get any decent standard of service are taken into consideration.

This move will further damage BA's reputation, which will, in turn come back and bite it's employees

If we flip this around, then surely if the staff exceed service levels and expectations, they would be entitled to an improved set of T & C's?

Worth considering perhaps?

[Tosh McCaber]

Hate to say this, but I hope that the CC realise that they will be taking part in a lottery in the next few weeks- as to who will be retained by the company, and those who will lose their jobs. This will be an inevitable result of the strikes- no matter who “wins.”

[Finals19]

Bottom line. Most of you are worth £20k tops. A few are worth up to £30k.

Fine. I take it you are quoting "other industry comparisons" with the above salaries. In that case, BA flight crew should be worth £74K tops for Captains and £44K tops for FO's - source: Easyjet. You are advocating cost saving, so am I. You advocate crew at BA are doing the same job as crew at EZY. My reasoning is the same. I assume you are flight crew?

The general public see you as nothing other than airborne waiters/waitresses.. 99.99% of the time, the job you do requires no thought process, no decision making. Dole out the food, flog duty frees, do a 5 minute safety brief. I think you will find that you are extremely well paid... higher than the average shop assistant

Unless you are crew, work very closely with them, have been crew, or are flight crew (in which case you should know better than to post such stuff) you really know nothing and your above diatribe is pure speculation on what the reality of cc's duties are. You are forgetting another situation that the crew are there for, and believe me, on the rare ocassion that such a situation arises, its amazing how the passengers suddenly look to YOU to save their skins.

[Vortex what...ouch!]

I take it you are quoting "other industry comparisons" with the above salaries. In that case, BA flight crew should be worth £74K tops for Captains and £44K tops for FO's - source: Easyjet. You are advocating cost saving, so am I. You advocate crew at BA are doing the same job as crew at EZY. My reasoning is the same. I assume you are flight crew?

But the pilots are not threatening to strike and are not currently being squeezed for further economies, CC are.

you really know nothing and your above diatribe is pure speculation on what the reality of cc's duties are. You are forgetting another situation that the crew are there for, and believe me, on the rare ocassion that such a situation arises, its amazing how the passengers suddenly look to YOU to save their skins.

Exactly the point the public simply see you as super waitresses, it’s a fact even if its an uncomfortable one. Your last point is correct of course but hey how many times in your career are you likely to have to do that bit? Probably for most of you never!!!

[atyourcervix73]

Your last point is correct of course but hey how many times in your career are you likely to have to do that bit? Probably for most of you never!!!

I take it then Vortex, you will be cancelling all your insurance policys from today onwards

[Hotel Mode]

In that case, BA flight crew should be worth £74K tops for Captains and £44K tops for FO's - source: Easyjet.

Nice try but you have conveniently excluded allowances and their annual bonus scheme. Not to mention quicker promotion meaning high paypoints for FO's arent required. Please compare with VS where top captain salary is just over 100000 and they do less hours and have better allowances. I realise then youd have to compare BA/Virgin Cabin crew salarys which may prove inconvenient.

[anotherthing]

atyourcervix

If services were exceeded then yes, Ts and Cs should be amended accordingly. However this is always going to be a comparison game. The standard of service is dictated by the company... the CC carry that out. Other Flag carriers by comparison provide a better service... therefore BA cabin crew are overpaid... by the very definition you just posted.

Finals19

I have several friends who were CC, I understand what the job entails.... for the length of training, the recruitment process etc - they are very very well paid (the two verys are not a typo, they are an amplification). Yes if on the rare occasion the poo hits the fan, then CC earn their money... are they worth more than nurses etc who are trained to a higher degree and who deal with emergencies on a much more regular basis? Are they worth more than a squaddie walking along a street in downtown Basra, on £13k a year? The simple answer is NO!

However that is the simple answer - we are not all paid as we should be and direct comparisions should not always be made as they are unrealistic (I mean c'mon, David Beckham is going to get £490k a week - but what does he do in real world terms?). Maybe you do deserve better pay or Ts and Cs - however the 12 point bulletin put out by your union as laughable....

I am a member of the public insomuch as I am not Cabin Crew or Flight Crew. I am in the industry and work bloody hard. I am well educated so know there is more to this than simply meets the eye. Unfotunately, it seems that as well as keeping it's members in the dark, BASSA is making a very poor attempt at giving the public a reason to support CC. This is a union who's leaders will continue to be paid whilst you strike, a Union who you pay to support you in the best possible way. Causing you to strike for a dozen or so weak reasons, without even referring to ACAS, a professional arbitration body, when the opportunity is there, is a dereliction of BASSAs duty to its members.


You are in a public service industry..... the public will be the ones who ultimately decide what happens and how the company will recover. I know that CC are not glorified shop assistants or waiters (I put that in to get some response, as it seems a lot of CC to date have been led up the garden path by BASSA, it's time they thought and fought for themselves)... however 98% of their job is mundane and simple... the other 2% happens on an irregular basis.

Now you have some fire in your belly, why don't you ask more questions of your union, who takes your money? It appears that they are leading you astray. Bear in mind that about 80% of the UK population takes its politics etc from rags such as the Sun... these are the people that also pay your wages, these are the people that will leave BA and look elsewhere.

BA is no longer the airline that all others aspire emulate. I think that for all his faults WW knows this. It's time some of the employees understood this as well.

[Finals19]

Hotel Mode..

Damn, a direct hit!

Your points are duly noted Hotel Mode. I shall retreat to the bunker to re-convene my strategy Nicely put though.
Cheers.

[Vortex what...ouch!]

Sorry Cirvix I was not having a go per se - I think anotherthing says it much better than I can.

[Flying Lawyer]

atyourcervix73

I'd no more want to fly in a large airliner with vending machines instead of CC than I would in an un-manned airliner flown by computers because there are some emergencies in which the CC have a literally life-saving role, but surely the " reality " is that most of their work by far is equivalent to serving food/selling items which millions of people do on the ground for a fraction of the money?
They have to spend time away from home, particularly on long haul, and there is a risk element in flying which doesn't exist in a restaurant or shop, so higher pay (within reason) is justified.
What do you say are the other differences which distinguish CC from people doing the jobs mentioned?


"If we flip this around, then surely if the staff exceed service levels and expectations, they would be entitled to an improved set of T & C's?"

But their T&C's are already considerably better than CC working for lo-co lo-service airlines, better than other mainstream carriers such as Virgin, and amongst the best in airlines worldwide.
Are you suggesting they are entitled to even better T&C's if they provide the level of service that they are already being paid to provide?


Finals 19

You dismiss anotherthing's opinion with "you really know nothing and your above diatribe is pure speculation on what the reality of cc's duties are."
I don't offer a percentage, but isn't it true that by far most of CC work is as he describes?
If (as you claim) he is wrong, why not correct him with what you see as the facts?

[atyourcervix73]

Lawyer,
The CC remuneration package is a function of all the points you highlight, as well as the current industrial situation, and perhaps the local cost of living etc...
As to the reality, well that surely comes down to your own personal opinion doesn't it?
In my role I am aware of any number of scenario's that can end in disaster, I am also aware that for the vast majority of situations, there is a reasonable outcome. If however we lived in a world devoid of risk, we wouldn't account for insurance or assurance policies and the like.

The REALITY is the percieved level of risk IMHO, in an aircraft that level of risk can increase in an exponential fashion very very quickly, CC are paid to mitigate that to some extent, my view then is that there is no valid comparison that can be made with shop assistants

Are you suggesting they are entitled to even better T&C's if they provide the level of service that they are already being paid to provide?

No, I said if they exceeded service level requirements, BA does measure on a regular basis its customer satisfaction levels.


Note, the TGWU are very quiet this morning, I wonder have they overplayed their position?

[WeLieInTheShadows]

The 6 LH routes opperated out of LGW that WILL fly will probably be ATL,DFW,IAH,ANU,MCO, and KIN.

The current routes opperated by SFLGW.

Suprised they even bothered to cancel the domestic and euro stuff.

[brush]

Lots of posts by people who have no knowledge of any facts, but have strong opinions, generally based on obvious prejudices towards B.A. cabin crew.

The wage increase proposals are only for crew on the 'new' contract, who are not paid massive amounts. The proposals are for increments over a period of time, and not a huge jump overnight, to match those on the 'old' contract. In other words the proposals offer a future in the company for crew, who have have there wages capped at £15k basic, after 10 years of service.

[M.Mouse]

I believe that the mass cancellation of services is to prevent the 'will it won't it' operate scenario and all the uncertainty and chaos that generates.

The fact that CC are being told to report as normal for their duties (unless deciding to strike that is) would indicate that the master plan is coming along nicely.

[SR71]

Forgive me for butting in....

Can someone just post CSD/Purser/CC payscales on this thread (old or new, whatever) so we can see once and for all what it is everyone is (to some extent) arguing about, and lets face it, what most people see this debate is about? (Rightly or wrongly I might add....)

BA Pilot pay-scales can be found on this site so no-one need be in the dark on that account (I'll happily re-post them if you can't find them), but we seem to be in the dark regards the various pay-scales of the CC.

To an outsider (i.e., non-BA) , some of the figures cabin-crew are reported to earn are staggering....whereupon rocking the boat in the fashion they intend seems a very strange move indeed in the day and age of Ryanair and Easyjet....