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Another Aircraft off the Runway at BRS?

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Another Aircraft off the Runway at BRS?

Old 5th Jan 2007, 22:18
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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EZY and BRS

Hi Dolley, as an EZY crewmember, I felt exactly the same today - it seems as if the company is handling things entirely responsibly. If you fancy some sectors, you could have my Belfast Cardiff Belfast Faro Belfast tomorrow, with pleasure!! Only joking - wouldn't miss it for the world.
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 22:56
  #142 (permalink)  
A4

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Balderino. Apology accepted. Yes I'm fuming too that this situation has been allowed to get to this point. What I cannot stand is Corporate bull$hit statements being issued about "safety is our priority" but have done NOTHING at all about a known problem for a number of weeks - hoping it would go away

It could be argued that BIA has left us "four stripers" wide open to potential disaster. For the the BIA "mouth" to describe the runway excursions as "minor" is despicable - he has no idea of true responsibility or the implications for the crew involved - perhaps they have a strong case against BIA/him. If he screws up his profits might be a bit lower but at least no one dies.......

However - I think BIA has well and truely screwed up on this one - and it's all coming home to roost.

Fly safely everyone,

A4
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 23:03
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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corsaman
lol
I'll leave all the excitment to you, I'm afraid.
Can't say I'm not glad that my days off start tomorrow...bet it will be a bit of a 'job' in the next few days! At least only 2 sector days from Cardiff because of the extra transport time!
wearthefoxhat
I understand your concern. The only thing that I can say is that I think easyjet has proven today that we all don't need to be to worried. I'm convienced that they won't let us fly out of BRS until matters are resolved so there is nothing to worry any more. And as I know a few pilots personnally....they tend to be very stubborn, so if they don't want to fly, they won't ;-)
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 00:30
  #144 (permalink)  
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Watched the BBC news (thanks crew the screw for the link). It is notable that BRS got 17 years of life out of the old runway, because many runways get resurfaced (well) before that. This is not implying that they deferred maintenance excessively of course.

The BBC news suggested that the runway was being strengthened to cope with increased traffic. Together with the long period for the works of 5 months, this would explain the need to lay basecourse asphalt before eventually laying surfacing asphalt and grooving it. However this sort of large scale work is described as reconstruction or rebuilding, not as resurfacing. Reconstruction is a whole different ball game. While resurfacing usually happens while the runway is left in service, reconstruction is not. Using a pilot's analogy, resurfacing is like those old-time long distance flyers topping up the engine oil in flight; it's tricky but can be done after careful preparation. Reconstruction is like having to strip down the whole engine and rebuild it while in flight. All this with a single engined aircraft (single runway airport)
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 02:07
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Lulsgate is a complete , whose only saving grace is that, since Filton was NOT chosen, is the only airfield left.
A BAD choice.
Always fogged in.
Bloody bumpy approaches
700m RVR minima due slope
Expensive car parking
Need a Taxi to get there, or the 90min yokel bus!
A total, total of an airfield!
Trust the Brizzol city fathers...........to get it TOTALLY WRONG!
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 09:02
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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From Ryanair's point of view business is normal at BRS because they would have received no communication from BIA - the same as every other airline based there.
The airlines with staff and pilots based at the airport, have been fully aware of the past week's situation, and have deemed the runway 'unsafe' (not neccesarily the case!!!).
Thats why Continental have landed this morning - to them everything will seem normal.....until they disembark that is!! BIA are doing their very best to hold onto every last airline......
"10 green bottles.....do do do do......."
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 09:21
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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BBC reporting that Thomas Cook is the next green bottle....

PS - OverRun - great analogy

Last edited by Pinkman; 6th Jan 2007 at 09:35.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 09:39
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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T-fly ops told us that 737 ops out of BRS are a no-go and that 757/767 ops only when the runway is dry. Not "official" since as a pilot I get this sort of info a day late, as usual. Last night we (fortunately) took BHX fuel since there was no hint of BRS problems on the fuel plan, notams, crew notices etc.
Lucky we stopped to chat with one of the ground crew who gave us all the info he had picked up from local radio!!!!

Shame Cardiff has the stand "fingers" out of service at the mo. Stand 7 has huge holes in it where they have pulled away rusty panels. Amazing that they passed 'inspection' a few months ago. Wouldn't want to buy a used car off whoever passed them last time!
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 09:55
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brain fade
Lulsgate is a complete , whose only saving grace is that, since Filton was NOT chosen, is the only airfield left.
A BAD choice.
Always fogged in.
Bloody bumpy approaches
700m RVR minima due slope
Expensive car parking
Need a Taxi to get there, or the 90min yokel bus!
A total, total of an airfield!
Trust the Brizzol city fathers...........to get it TOTALLY WRONG!
+1

I've started my stop watch to time how quick the mods delete this and your post (is Mr Skipp a MOD on pprune?)
Why are they deleting posts stating what a cr*p location Lulsgate is?
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 10:07
  #150 (permalink)  

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I do wonder what the legal consequence would be for:
a) the aircraft Captain
b) the Airport Authority
if another aircraft slide off the side of the runway.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 10:42
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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BBC now reporting that 9 airlines have cancelled flights from Bristol over safety fears
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 10:43
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting to see that even now Skippy cant get his act together by aggressively taking control of the situation. "Fiddling while Rome burns" comes to mind.

BRS needs to be shut NOW and the runway work finished in one hit.

Any other solution will fall short of the mark and prolong the pain for all of us.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 10:46
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Lead story on Sky News now!
Just shut the bloody place til wednesday(forcast to rain til then at least) groove the blinkin runway and get your airlines back, surely its really not a good idea to piss off the airlines that have shown such trust in BRS such as BA, XLA, EZY and FCA. These 4 airlines have shown a lot of commitment to BRS especially EZY and FCA with EZY's constant addition of new routes IBZ announced 2 days ago, and FCA launching Long Haul, and now the MD stands there basically saying he doesn't give a s**t!
FR probably too tied up defending itself to the bloody politicians again!
Think were all waiting for CO to get a sniff of whats going on, I fear if the CO 757 overshoots into the safety area there will be a phone call to there HQ with inevitable phrase "Houston we have a problem".
GONE!
1. Easyjet
2. First Choice
3. Thomson
4. Thomas Cook
5. British Airways
6. Aer Lingus
7. Air Malta
8. Excel Airways
GOING????
9. Fly Be????
10. Continental ?????
11. Ryanair?????
12. Air Southwest????
13. KLM????
14. Eastern?????
15. SN Brussels????
16. Aer Arann????
17. Aurigny????
18. Astreus????
Shall I go on!

Last edited by WATABENCH; 6th Jan 2007 at 11:29.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 10:48
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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I worked within BIA last year and simply cannot believe this thread.

At some point, even in blinkered t**ts like the MD, there has to come a time when everything doesn't come down to bank balance. Do people like him stop to think about anything other than money? I feel sorry for him - imagine living your life like that.

Personally, it seems crazy that non-aviation money men within BIA decide that a runway is safe for operation(clearly not after reading this thread). I wholly congratulate EZY and all other operators who have put safety first and cancelled/restricted services. Not only the RIGHT thing to do but also the ONLY way to get through to the big-nobs.

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Old 6th Jan 2007, 10:56
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brain fade
Lulsgate is a complete , whose only saving grace is that, since Filton was NOT chosen, is the only airfield left.
A BAD choice.
Always fogged in.
Bloody bumpy approaches
700m RVR minima due slope
Expensive car parking
Need a Taxi to get there, or the 90min yokel bus!
A total, total of an airfield!
Trust the Brizzol city fathers...........to get it TOTALLY WRONG!
Brain Fade, I have been in self imposed exile from this site for a few years so I congratulate you for tempting me back to reply to your post.

I hope I am qualified to reply. I carry no remit for BIA, but I have operated MD83, A320 and A321 aircraft from BRS for over 16 years and am a TRE. As I am converting to the B757 I am not operating out of BRS at the moment, although I fully understand and agree with the airline's and pilot's frustration with the way BIA are handling the consequences of the runway resurfacing (some posters seem to think that 'flight deck' are making decisions - quite how they believe that an inanimate piece of machinery commands an aircraft mystifies me, the people at the pointy end are pilots (I digress)).

Anyway, at the risk of thread creep, to address your points:

'Always fogged in' - A previous poster referred to good old Les, an earlier MD of the airport. Good old Les refused to install a CAT3 ILS so that the airlines could safely operate in the fog, unless the airlines helped to pay for it. The subsequent owners stumped up the cash and installed the kit. As a result BRS now handles quite a few diversions from fogged out EXT and CWL in addition to being available to based airlines in the fog. BTW, please don't flame me for bad mouthing Les, I liked the bloke and was proud to represent my airline at his memorial service at Bristol Cathedral.

'Bloody bumpy approaches' - Try LGW with a southerly wind, FNC all the time, or INN with a Foehn wind howling out of the Brenner Pass, or countless others, what's your point?

'700m RVR minima due slope' - the 700m RVR limit is due to the length of the approach lights, limited on RWY27 by Felton Common and 09 by Brockley Coombe. If you are refering to the hill dropping away into Brockley Coombe, fair cop, if you are referring to runway slope, 'fraid not. In any event, the RVR limit in the fog on 27 is 75m for Cat3 and 300m for Cat2, so for most of us the 700m limit is only limiting with a strong easterly wind that precludes a tailwind landing on 27.

'Expensive car parking' I understand that the on airport stuff is competitive. Off airport is limited by planning permission, which is whole different subject.

'Need a taxy to get there' Try LGW, LUT STN, NCL, EXT, GLA, etc - need I go on

'Trust the Brizzol city fathers' I wouldn't trust them any more than you, but they sold BRS many years ago in order to allow it to expand. For that alone I thank them

Filton is a dead duck, and in my opinion this was so long before Sadly Broke was built, despite it's excellent road and rail links.

I hope we can all agree that the issue with the runway friction is temporary, is extremely disruptive to the passengers who pay our salaries, but can be dealt with just as soon as the BIA management come out of denial. Could it have been foreseen? - maybe. Could the current situation be better handled by BIA? - almost certainly. Is BRS an inherantly risky place to operate from? - absolutely not! Operation from BRS is limited by runway length, but aviaition is one of the most regulated 'high risk' environments anywhere. Aviation has been into risk managment since long before the buzzword was invented. Airlines operating from BRS will continue to manage and mitigate that risk. Easyjet have taken a public lead on the present issue, and deserve to be congratulated, but the other based airlines with a smaller presence have also been mitigating risk on behalf of their customers as well.

I will be back at BRS with the B757 soon, followed by the B767, and I trust that once the new runway surface beds in and has the grooving carried out we can get back to 'ops normal'. BRS works just fine for me. Effective risk management is the key to aircraft operation not 'bean counting'. I hope the BIA management can learn from the adverse publicity.

My motto has always been 'have fun, don't crash'. It is not a flippant motto, everyone should enjoy their job, and in order to 'have fun', pilots need to use knowledge, skill, and attitude to manage risk. BRS is not a 'Bad airport', and I, for one, have fun operating large aircraft from there (present circumstances excepted!).

Have fun, don't crash
Bus14 (@BRS and wondering if I should change my name to Boeing14? )
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 11:01
  #156 (permalink)  
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'have fun, don't crash'
I like that, never used it as a motto but definitely my ethos.

Now that Ezy have made the decision to pull out wouldn't it be a PR disaster for any other airline to fly out of there?
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 11:09
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Bus14...........your contribution is as farcical and misleading as it is just plain WEIRD.

"Have fun, dont crash"

Just the sort of balanced professional attitude that the fare paying public would be reassured to know is the ethos of the guy in whose hands they have placed their lives.

Go back into exile I suggest is the kindest way of putting it.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 11:26
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WATABENCH
Lead story on Sky News now!
Just shut the bloody place til wednesday(forcast to rain til then at least) groove the blinkin runway and get your airlines back, surely its really not a good idea to piss off the airlines that have shown such trust in BRS such as BA, XLA, EZY and FCA. These 4 airlines have shown a lot of commitment to BRS especially EZY and FCA with EZY's constant addition of new routes IBZ announced 2 days ago, and FCA launching Long Haul, and now the MD stands there basically saying he doesn't give a s**t!
FR probably too tied up defending itself to the bloody politicians again!
Think were all waiting for CO to get a sniff of whats going on, I fear if the CO 757 overshoots into the safety area there will be a phone call to there HQ with inevitable phrase "Houston we have a problem".
GONE!
1. Easyjet
2. First Choice
3. Thomson
4. Thomas Cook
5. British Airways
6. Aer Lingus
7. Air Malta
8. Excel Airways
GOING????
9. Fly Be????
10. Continental ?????
11. Ryanair?????
12. Air Southwest????
13. KLM????
14. Eastern?????
15. SN Brussels????
16. Aer Arann????
17. Aurigny????
18. Astreus
Shall I go on!

Bang on!
Skippy (the ) should be out with his corporate BIA brollie in the wind and rain, armed with a shiny spade sorting out the runway. If he could find the runway?

Weston's runway is probably safer at the mo!
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 11:32
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Skippy will, theres bound to be a spare EZY hanging about
New NOTAM issued for BRS
RWY27 - DONT BOTHER AT ANYTIME
RWY09 - ESPECIALLY DONT BOTHER AT ANYTIME
PLEASE CARRY ADDITIONAL FUEL IN ORDER TO HOLD AND WAIT TIL JULY OR ATLEAST TIL CONTACTORS GROOVE THE BLOODY MID SECTION.

Just seen excellent interview on BBC NEWS 24 with TCX spokesman Shaun Robinson, Mr Robinson was very informative and filled in a lot of gaps that so far have been missed in other interviews, well done TCX

Last edited by WATABENCH; 6th Jan 2007 at 11:42.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 11:41
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Can we put this on a scientific basis for a moment?

I still have a question/problem with the underlying cause of this issue. Lets leave all the BIA bashing aside and accept that they scheduled the work in good faith, not expecting this to happen (obviously). One of the earliest posts quoted a mu-meter figure of 0.52 or therebouts for the mid section. That just doesn't tally with pilot reports of a slick section with zero braking action (or even "speeding up"!) BIA are quoted as having had the CAA down and that they were satisfied that they were doing everything correctly. If the 0.5 number was quoted then I can see how that conclusion can be reached but its at odds with the pilot reports and the empirical experience. How can that be?
The other question relates to G-CPTNs comments about continuous/combined matrix asphalt. If the Runway is being strengthened or reconstructed and the base layer renewed, why would you use a material designed for a surface layer as a sub base? It partly explains the events but why would you use it in the first place? Or have I misunderstood? (I used to make it - I don't lay it)
Pinkman

Last edited by Pinkman; 7th Jan 2007 at 08:29.
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