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Another Aircraft off the Runway at BRS?

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Another Aircraft off the Runway at BRS?

Old 7th Jan 2007, 07:38
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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From the BBC's website

Passenger Sarah David was on board an Excel plane that landed at the airport on Wednesday on the way back from the Canary Islands.

She told the BBC the aircraft veered from side to side before it came to a stop.

"My little girl was clinging to my arm and my nephews in the seat behind were very frightened and people weren't screaming - it wasn't the Titanic or anything like that - but you could see looking around that people's faces were very shocked at what was happening.

"When we finally came to a stop, people just erupted into a spontaneous round of applause."
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 08:31
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Just as an aside, could someone from Yokelvision advise when and by whom they were given permission to monitor and rebroadcast ATC RT on the news?
I refer them to the Wireless Telegraphy Acts of 1949, 1998, 2006 and to http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206063
Of course they'd never break the law in the course of their 'journalism' by lstening into transmissions they aren't allowed to would they.... I mean look what happened to that guy from the 'News of the Screws'!
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 09:40
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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i'd say what a daring decision of EZ to cancel it's flights whan it cannot be sure if the runway is safe enough! four incidents in such a short time span are definatly a good indication of something wrong.
Clearly EZ and others have put safety ahead of money! That in my opinion is the way it should be in aviation.
Any statement from the airport or CAA are only valid if clearly prooven and it seems that what they are doing now.

Nick
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 10:09
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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It sounds like the tests on the runway aren't good. Flights diverting to BHX again tomorrow and yet to be confirmed talk that they are going to close the airport and do the job properly.

Finally the light at the end of the tunnel?
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 10:30
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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I am somewhat bemused by the inference that grooving of the runway surface is apparently going to cure the "slippery when wet" problem.
As with any newly laid asphalt surface, there is an initial problem of a certain amount of oil in the asphalt mix coming to the surface. This should in time disperse.
Any initial concern should be, is the asphalt spec' correct? Presumably an experienced and reputable contractor has been employed, so who is overseeing quality control? Is there a problem there?
I would hope that BRS have been frequently assessing surface friction during the overlay project, when did the "slippery when wet" NOTAM go out, before or after the runway excursion?
I flew regularly off the SOU runway while it was being re-surfaced. No problems at all. The airport regularly checked friction readings and never got near "slippery when wet". They then took an apparently good draining runway and grooved it without ensuring that water in the grooves could drain away, hopefully BRS will not make that mistake.
The end result is that water sits in the grooves, is thrown up by inspecting vehicles and the runway reported wet five hours after rain has ceased! The resultant weight penalty for a wet runway has cost SOU thousands of pounds in lost revenue due to diversions by B737/B757/MD83s who were not expecting a wet runway, and were consequently too heavy to land on the LDA available.
Going back to the ability of grooves to drain, if they don't drain, water sitting in them can freeze, expand and you end up with a corrugated runway surface. I've seen it happen twice at SOU, resulting in all morning flights being cancelled until the ice melts.
Good luck BRS!
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 11:24
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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Top post Mr OverRun!

FYI Brs uses an old(ish) LandRover Defender for pulling the Mu meter,
hardly a speed machine, and sometimes as an alternate, a Landrover Discovery, depending on the operative,as each has their own favourite vehicle don't they RangerOne?

ttfn
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 11:32
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Phil Space
Just wondering where the buck stops
With the Aerodrome Licence holder, who is accountable for the safe operation of aircraft movements that require use of a licensed aerodrome.
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 11:46
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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What about the issue of compensation for the airlines who have taken the safe option and decided not to use the runways in thsi state? The CAA and Airport seem to think the runway is useable to i guess the lawyers could be rubbing their hands again at the thought of some lengthy court cases?
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 11:48
  #209 (permalink)  

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ivor toolbox: The speed for Mu Meter runs is set at 40 mph, & always has been, as far as I am aware, although there was talk by the experts working on Runway classification, in altering the speed for some classification runs back several years ago.
The Defender is fine for this although the Disco is much more comfortable, the exception to the 40 Mph limit is when operating on Snow & Ice when friction can be measured effectively below 40mph.
I make no comment on my Preference of vehicle
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 12:09
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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OO-er, it seems as if BIA should start taking legal advice,if as it seems Ranger1 has just admitted, albeit on open forum, that they (sic) don't comply with ICAO Annex 14, Vol 1, Attachment A, Table A-1 as stated by Mr OverRun, and test at the higher speed.

Now we know where the buck stops.

ttfn
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 12:11
  #211 (permalink)  

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OverRun: Please click on the link below for Data on normal friction testing:
http://www.densongse.com/products/douglasspd.htm
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 12:21
  #212 (permalink)  
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Nice bit of kit. Note the bit about testing to 80 mph. I had looked at their 2006 user manual earlier today, and it said the same thing. CAP 683 doesn't actually give a specific speed for runway friction testing, but perhaps I can help. 40 mph is for roundabouts and shopping centre carparks. 40, 60 and 80 mph are for airports. If the runways are grooved, then the 40 and 60 mph speeds can be used to infer high speed wet friction. If they are not, then I rather think the 80 mph speed test is needed.
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 12:28
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Fantastic... Now we are talking and getting somewhere!!

Now Ranger1 get the in your disco or defender and hit the strip at 80mph!! just for a little experiment.. We don't need to see the figures but please just do it and take further action if the readings are in anyway different or alarming?

Crew...
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 12:29
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Did anyone just see the sky news footage of a Ryanair plane landing at bristol?

OMG LOL dunno why im laughing the thind aquaplaned down the runway with a wave of water plashing out either side, horrible, Good luck to all you brave Pilots.
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 12:47
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Great responses OverRun.

Here in the UK Rwy friction testing for maintenance puroses is governed by CAP 683 as you are already aware. It was revised in July 2004 when the requirement to carry out testing at speeds other than 65Kph/40Mph were dropped from it's requirements?????? They were however included in the original version!
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 12:52
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Originally Posted by GT Operator
Great responses OverRun.

Here in the UK Rwy friction testing for maintenance puroses is governed by CAP 683 as you are already aware. It was revised in July 2004 when the requirement to carry out testing at speeds other than 65Kph/40Mph were dropped from it's requirements?????? They were however included in the original version!
Hang on a minute there, surely CAP 683 should also take into account the requirements of ICAO Annex 14, Vol 1, Attachment A, Table A-1?

ttfn
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 13:26
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Breaking News - BRS closing airfield at 14:30

Just reported, BRS are closing the airport to all flights until Tuesday.
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 13:34
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Statement in full:

Latest News

Update On Air Services From Bristol International Airport

(07/01/07)

07 January 2007, 14.00 hrs




UPDATED INFORMATION FROM BRISTOL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

Following concerns of some airlines operating at Bristol International regarding the surface of the temporary sections of the runway during the on-going re-surfacing programme during wet conditions, the airport has been consulting closely with the Civil Aviation Authority, its airlines and its contractors on a way forward.

At all times the CAA has confirmed that appropriate operational measures are in place to assure that the runway is safe for operations in wet and dry conditions.

Detailed assessments have been made this morning on the impact of additional grooving on test strips of the temporary surface, which were put in place during the resurfacing work over the last two nights. These have proved satisfactory in terms of further increasing the drainage of surface water on the temporary sections of the runway which is in the process of being resurfaced.

The CAA has confirmed they have no objection to the proposed additional grooving work to be undertaken on the temporary sections of the runway. We are confident that for those airlines which have suspended their operations at Bristol International Airport, this will address their concerns and allow them to resume operations at the airport.

In order to resume normal services at the airport as quickly as possible, and to clarify the situation for passengers, the airport is closing the runway from 1430 today. This will mean all flights for the rest of Sunday and Monday morning will be either diverted or cancelled. This decision has been made in consultation with our airline partners.

This will allow us to fast-track the on-going work on the temporary surface of part of the runway, which could otherwise only be done at night. Work will continue later today on adding further grooves to the rest of the existing temporary surface.

Bristol International Airport Managing Director, Andrew Skipp said: “Safety is always our top priority. At all times the CAA have confirmed that our runway is safe, and the process we have been following for the re-surfacing, which is still underway, is correct.

“As we have done throughout the resurfacing programme we will continue to liaise fully with our airlines partners and provide them with all the information they need to operate from the airport.

“I can only apologise to travellers for the disruption this is causing to their journeys, and reassure them that we are working hard to rectify the situation as quickly as possible.

Passengers are advised to contact their travel agent or airlines direct for an update, or check the Bristol International website www.bristolairport.co.uk for up to date information.”
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 13:38
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Bristol Tower advises closure in 20mins time.
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 14:32
  #220 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by OverRun
Ranger1, I sincerely hope you are kidding. Please tell me you are joking. Even in my wildest dreams [nightmares], I didn’t think BRS was testing at 40 mph (65 kph). I cannot believe that this is true. I do this sort of thing for a living and this is WAY outside international practice.
I think we need to make a distinction here between the Annex 14 reference, which is for monitoring runway surface conditions for the purpose of arranging timely maintenance and for NOTAMing 'slipery when wet' if approppriate, and of measuring/reporting the braking action on a contaminated runway for operational use. Very different things.....and very different procedures.

Last edited by Spitoon; 7th Jan 2007 at 16:07.
 

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