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Another Aircraft off the Runway at BRS?

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Another Aircraft off the Runway at BRS?

Old 29th Dec 2006, 21:26
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Another Aircraft off the Runway at BRS?

Heard that another a/c has gone off the end of the runway (EMB?) aircraft holding over BRS hoping that the airfield will be back open, (KL's got 90 mins fuel). 2 a/c off in one day? not a good day for BRS management I think!!
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 21:51
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More money for Cardiff then , anyone know what time and what a/c?
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 21:56
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on ATIS its now giving out braking actions:

Touchdown: Wet Not Sufficient
Midpoint: Wet Good Decimal 52
Stoppoint: Wet Not sufficient
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 22:00
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does anyone actually believe the midpoint braking action tho??
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 22:03
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well thats where the aurigny went off at lunch time. I was at work at the airport when it all kicked off.

But now that 2 ac have possibly gone off the runway, shouldnt something be done before someone gets serriously injured?
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 22:51
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does anyone actually believe the midpoint braking action tho??
Why shouldn't you believe it???????
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 00:01
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Quote:
does anyone actually believe the midpoint braking action tho??
Why shouldn't you believe it???????
I guess that the two Captains who believed the braking action, (quoted as good on the dodgy midpoint section of the runway) but found themselves in the grass, will be happy to explain why the quoted braking action should not be believed.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 00:23
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Originally Posted by speedbird_481_papa
on ATIS its now giving out braking actions:
Touchdown: Wet Not Sufficient
Midpoint: Wet Good Decimal 52
Stoppoint: Wet Not sufficient
I think you'll find it says 'braking action not measured' rather than 'not sufficient', whatever that's supposed to mean. If you're going to use a scanner to listen in, at least note it down correctly. DOH!


And if any of the Einsteins out there have a better way of measuring the braking action, sally forth and let us in on the secret.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 02:10
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FCA 757 had a lucky miss on landing at BRS. We were at the holding point waiting for him when just before touchdown he must have had some nasty gusts because I kid you not, the right wing and tail were no more than a couple of inches from striking the ground totally unstable, flight deck did well to recover. I yelled out oh sh!t but they managed to climb away and fair play to the flight deck they sounded as cool as ice, I bet there was a few screams in the back and a few anal nerves twitching. Tower did sent out ASU to check runway lights because I'm sure they thought the wing must have taken a few out no damage though.

Overall not a good day at BRS 2 aircraft off and a near miss.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 02:26
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The middle point of the runway definately seems dodgy, many aircraft have skidded there today, many more to follow. Having landend there several times with this ungrooved bit i`m not entirely happy anymore after what has happened today. Can personally vouch for the BA crew..not so much for the Aurigny crew, since I don`t know them, but I do hope both stand well in front of the board of enquiry..........

Now lets get this runway sorted before something worse happens!
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 02:34
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Think the CAA will have something to say to BRS after today. I wouldn't point the finger at the crew, I think the middle section of the runway has proven today to be a bit to risky and braking action reports are not reliable enough.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 03:51
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Originally Posted by nonemmet
I guess that the two Captains who believed the braking action, (quoted as good on the dodgy midpoint section of the runway) but found themselves in the grass, will be happy to explain why the quoted braking action should not be believed.
Well said. 2 aircraft in one day go off the runway in one day doesn't exactly suggest good braking action to me!!
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 08:15
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always said BRS was a sh@t hole.....i remember a couple of yrs ago landing a heavy 734 in rain there and I got a fright as there was no decel in the mid section.

I think the CAA should adv operators to review thier operations into BRS in wx we saw there yesterday.

Fun and games in Dub last night, circuit was full with G/A's due x w/v's. I am fed up with flying in crap weather.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 08:55
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Fun and games in Dub last night, circuit was full with G/A's due x w/v's. I am fed up with flying in crap weather.
Today 04:51
Yes, bearcat, I know what you mean but isn't this what flying is all about. In an age where the great unwashed think it's "all automatic" it's nice to know that there are still quite a few things in flying which are down to skill and good judgement!

Also, diversions are so (relatively) rare now and we are used to rigidly following "rules" perhaps it's time to resurrect phrases such as "command judgement" or "airmanship"? This comment is not intended to criticise the crews landing at BRS etc since I also was flying into DUB last night and the conditions were, to say the least, somewhat sporty!

I suppose what I am trying to say is that we like to think that we are protected by all the theory about braking action and margins etc but even the best can get caught out by what is one of our worst enemies - the weather!

Safe flying to all in 2007!
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 09:57
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Does the runway at BRS still have the big dip in the middle?
Seem to remember last time there (15 odd years ago) landing at night in PA28 most of the runway dissapeared on landing due to dip in centre.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 10:14
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Putting anything around a 757/321 size into BRS is tough enough for the crews due to the slope and stopping distance. There is such pressure to 'hit the spot' it puts the twitches in all 'left hand sphincters'!!
Combine this with extremely gusty crosswinds, and poor braking action, experienced BRS pilots will be very go-around minded!!!
BRS are very proud of their divert capability, and Andrew Skipp (rightly so) was very proud to stand in front of the cameras last week stating they were one of the only airfields in the area open for business!!

However the guys behind airfield operations should assist some of the boys up at the pointy end. Dont play that terrible gamble between safety & striving to keep the airfield open!!! We are all under pressure to prevent financial loss and minimsise disruption, but lets do it safely!!!
As I type this I can just see the stricken BA EMB being towed across to a hangar for repairs.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 10:20
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It'll be interesting to see what conclusions the lawyers, insurers and AAIB come too. Someone is going to be in the dock for off-roading; question is who.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 11:07
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However the guys behind airfield operations should assist some of the boys up at the pointy end. Dont play that terrible gamble between safety & striving to keep the airfield open!!! We are all under pressure to prevent financial loss and minimsise disruption, but lets do it safely!!!
As I type this I can just see the stricken BA EMB being towed across to a hangar for repairs
Well certainly the comment,to me, by one "airport manager" yesterday while we were recovering the Aurigny ATR "All I want is that ***ing plane off the ***ing grass and out of the way so I can re-open MY runway,all this is costing us " just shows their attitude at present doesn't it??

Luckily neither plane was particularly badly damaged, or their inhabitants injured; but both will be giving their respective engineering teams some work over the weekend.

ttfn
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 12:30
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Time for the authority to actually "regulate" I suspect.There are two airfields in the UK where the runways give me serious safety concern BRS and LBA.In the course of my job I have to operate into both, each are barely acceptable in reasonable conditions and marginal to "unsafe" in poor conditions for commercial aircraft.I would never allow my family to fly from them as passengers in anything other than good weather conditions.Commercial and planninng pressures have allowed their terminals to be developed way in excess of their runways physical characteristics and local weather.It will be a brave manager who ignores the recent 3 events at BRS ,should a more serious accident occur the lawyers will have a field day.wake up Bristol,wake up CAA.
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 12:57
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I operated 757s (and occasionally 767-300s) in and out of Bristol for 15 years and can't help wondering what all the fuss is about. Have they done something to the runway recently that has altered the friction effect?
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