Another Aircraft off the Runway at BRS?
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"Airlines admit that half their pilots are incompetent to land at major airport shock!"
Train them, trust them, test them.
Co-pilot limits are a sign of poor selection, poor training, poor testing, or a flight operations management running scared of making good decisions. Not trying to cause thread drift, but really, look at the facts as they now stand, and work out why there's anything wrong...
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Kit d'Rection KG
I hear what you're saying but it does make sense to have the most experienced pilot carry out the landing (if the Captains training and assesments were correctly carried out). At the end of the day "Trisha", the buck stops with the Skipper!
CQ
In addition to the up slope, would his weight not have been about 80 tons or less?
I hear what you're saying but it does make sense to have the most experienced pilot carry out the landing (if the Captains training and assesments were correctly carried out). At the end of the day "Trisha", the buck stops with the Skipper!
CQ
In addition to the up slope, would his weight not have been about 80 tons or less?
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Notable that one operator with co-pilot limits had a serious incident following a left seat incapacitation.
Last edited by Kit d'Rection KG; 8th Jan 2007 at 21:05. Reason: I'm the one asking the questions...
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RVR27/09 on the easy fleet the logo light go on automatically with the nav lights, there is no seperate switch for the logo lights. Most of our logo lights are u/s until they have their next maintance check.
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Excel still not happy!
Excel are still coaching pax to CWL this morning, apparently someone is coming from XL ops to inspect the runway this afternoon.
Bit overly cautious maybe as the runway is good enough for Easyjet, First Choice and all the others, guess it shows that the airlines dont all just follow the crowd.
Bit overly cautious maybe as the runway is good enough for Easyjet, First Choice and all the others, guess it shows that the airlines dont all just follow the crowd.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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Talk about PR..... this story has just made the frontpage of the business section of today's Australian.... so even here in Cairns they know, and in Wagga Wagga, Dubbo, Uluru.....
Poor BRS....
Poor BRS....
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Watabench
I would just like to turn your comments around at the start of this fiasco someone at Easyjet decided to stop using Bristol no doubt the Bristol airport managent said " The ruway is good enough for air XXXX ans XXXX airlines why not easyjet?"
Quite rightly Easyjet have been applauded by putting saftey ahead of profit, so why are you now having a go at XL for not using Bristol untill they are happy with the state of the runway?
I think I would like to fly with an airline that won't as you put it "follow the crowd".
Quite rightly Easyjet have been applauded by putting saftey ahead of profit, so why are you now having a go at XL for not using Bristol untill they are happy with the state of the runway?
I think I would like to fly with an airline that won't as you put it "follow the crowd".
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Mr A and C
Sorry that post wasn't worded as I ment for it to sound, your correct it did sound like "if its good enough for EZY what XL's problem" .
What I was trying to get at was fair play to XL for not following the crowd if they're not happy, spending the money and sending somebody down should be applauded, I havent seen any people from all the other 9 airlines looking at the runway.
However talking to some XL pax this morning being coached to CWL they commented that they thought the airline is maybe being overly cautious and couldnt understand why the other charters were happy and not them.
Ah well hopefully they'll be back in this evening and normality will return
Sorry that post wasn't worded as I ment for it to sound, your correct it did sound like "if its good enough for EZY what XL's problem" .
What I was trying to get at was fair play to XL for not following the crowd if they're not happy, spending the money and sending somebody down should be applauded, I havent seen any people from all the other 9 airlines looking at the runway.
However talking to some XL pax this morning being coached to CWL they commented that they thought the airline is maybe being overly cautious and couldnt understand why the other charters were happy and not them.
Ah well hopefully they'll be back in this evening and normality will return
As I wrote earlier, TODA and LDA reductions for 'slippery when wet' runways (when they are actually wet) used to be aircraft specific, in that 'very slippery' or 'icy' figures from the Aircraft Flight Manual had to be used.
Whereas nowadays, they are merely 'the responsibility of the aircraft operator'.......
Hence one airline's interpretation will probably differ from another's. I think that this is an extremely unwise situation and clearly open to commercial pressure.
Whereas nowadays, they are merely 'the responsibility of the aircraft operator'.......
Hence one airline's interpretation will probably differ from another's. I think that this is an extremely unwise situation and clearly open to commercial pressure.
Last edited by BEagle; 9th Jan 2007 at 12:33.
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"that's good enough for me"
A quote in the Telegraph:
"I think easyJet should just fly from Bristol," said Kerry Francis, 26, who was trying to return to Spain with her four-year-old daughter after spending Christmas in Trowbridge, Wilts.
"If the airport authorities thinks the runway is safe, that's good enough for me."
I'm not surprised that some members of the public might think like this, but it does say something about the quality of our media that these are reported without question or comment!
"If the airport authorities thinks the runway is safe, that's good enough for me."
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A quote in the Telegraph:
"I think easyJet should just fly from Bristol," said Kerry Francis, 26, who was trying to return to Spain with her four-year-old daughter after spending Christmas in Trowbridge, Wilts.
"If the airport authorities thinks the runway is safe, that's good enough for me."
I'm not surprised that some members of the public might think like this, but it does say something about the quality of our media that these are reported without question or comment!"If the airport authorities thinks the runway is safe, that's good enough for me."
This slippery runway has brought out all the 'armchair experts' like the lady who said on the BBC news "...it was terrifying. The plane was rocking and everyone was holding hands- my daughter was terrified!" What that has to do with landing on a slippery runway, I do not know! It is always rough on the approach at BRS in a crosswind!
The press could do themselves some big favours by reporting the story accurately and avoiding the "were you scared" questions to members of the public who do not know any better, and will say anything whan a camera is pointed at them.
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Flight Cancellation Woes
At the outset forgive me for registering as a ‘passenger’ (as others would appear to have – admittedly not many). However, some of the comments from those involved directly in the industry concerning the Bristol runway issues have been quoted in various news agency commentaries and at this stage I am not clear where else to go, hence my visit to this site.
My wife and I travelled Easy on the 3rd January to Inverness with no knowledge of the Aurigny and other incidents as reported. Having walked the highlands of Scotland for four days we returned to Inverness for our flight south to be told of the problems at Bristol. We ended up driving south at a cost to ourselves the flight south to Bristol having been cancelled.
No issue with regard to Easy decision to cancel for safety reasons – entirely the right course on the basis of the evidence I have seen.
However, it would appear from this forum there were concerns with the runway prior to the New Year. Can someone advise me what ‘ATIS’ is and whether the braking actions data at the start of this thread (Touchdown: Wet Not Sufficient; Midpoint: Wet Good Decimal 52: Stoppoint: Wet Not sufficient) is significant in the lead up to the problems prompting the cancellation.
Also, I note that a ‘board of enquiry’ will be considering the Aurigny incident. Can anyone tell me what this entails / how long to draw conclusions; and whether it is likely that the runway conditions / concerns will be likely to be a consideration before the board in light of recent events.
Clearly if anyone is aware of any authoritative comment by any agency / body stating definitively the runway was an issue (ahead of any board of enquiry findings) I would appreciate the details.
Thanks for your valuable time.
Frequent flyer!
My wife and I travelled Easy on the 3rd January to Inverness with no knowledge of the Aurigny and other incidents as reported. Having walked the highlands of Scotland for four days we returned to Inverness for our flight south to be told of the problems at Bristol. We ended up driving south at a cost to ourselves the flight south to Bristol having been cancelled.
No issue with regard to Easy decision to cancel for safety reasons – entirely the right course on the basis of the evidence I have seen.
However, it would appear from this forum there were concerns with the runway prior to the New Year. Can someone advise me what ‘ATIS’ is and whether the braking actions data at the start of this thread (Touchdown: Wet Not Sufficient; Midpoint: Wet Good Decimal 52: Stoppoint: Wet Not sufficient) is significant in the lead up to the problems prompting the cancellation.
Also, I note that a ‘board of enquiry’ will be considering the Aurigny incident. Can anyone tell me what this entails / how long to draw conclusions; and whether it is likely that the runway conditions / concerns will be likely to be a consideration before the board in light of recent events.
Clearly if anyone is aware of any authoritative comment by any agency / body stating definitively the runway was an issue (ahead of any board of enquiry findings) I would appreciate the details.
Thanks for your valuable time.
Frequent flyer!
StandupfortheUlstermen
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Well first of all, why are you apologising 'for registering as a passenger'............unless of course you are not?
ATIS = Automated Terminal Information System, a broadcast message which includes all the information pilots need about an airfield.
The 'braking actions data at the start of this thread' which used the words 'not sufficient' were wrongly reported on the thread by some idiot who uses an airband scanner and couldn't be bothered to note the message down correctly, it was actually broadcast as 'not measured', which is something entirely different. Had you bothered to read on, you would have gleaned that snippet a couple of posts further down the page.
The 'board of enquiry' will deliver it's report in it's own good time and that report will be available for all to see on a publicly accessible website, once it has been released.
Why, if you are 'a passenger', do you need details of any 'authoritative comment....ahead of any board of enquiry findings', unless you have some newsprint to cover in drivel?
BTW, which rag is it you work for?
ATIS = Automated Terminal Information System, a broadcast message which includes all the information pilots need about an airfield.
The 'braking actions data at the start of this thread' which used the words 'not sufficient' were wrongly reported on the thread by some idiot who uses an airband scanner and couldn't be bothered to note the message down correctly, it was actually broadcast as 'not measured', which is something entirely different. Had you bothered to read on, you would have gleaned that snippet a couple of posts further down the page.
The 'board of enquiry' will deliver it's report in it's own good time and that report will be available for all to see on a publicly accessible website, once it has been released.
Why, if you are 'a passenger', do you need details of any 'authoritative comment....ahead of any board of enquiry findings', unless you have some newsprint to cover in drivel?
BTW, which rag is it you work for?
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j00cach.
Are you suggesting that Continental Airlines, knowing precisely what Easyjet knew, was deliberately putting their passengers, crew and aircraft at risk. Serious question. I'd like to hear the answer.
No issue with regard to Easy decision to cancel for safety reasons – entirely the right course on the basis of the evidence I have seen.
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I was a little disappointed that there was no spokesperson from BALPA commenting on the decision why pilots were reluctant to fly from BRS. After all they are an important mouthpiece for us and would add balance to Mr. Skipps, Yates, Learmount and various passengers comments. It would also add some credibility. They do have their own safety working group and are not just involved in pay negotiations.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
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Forget, Standard Noise, are you not being a little harsh with a fellow frequent flier. If I read between the lines, I see not a critic of other airlines nor a journalist but a passenger who is trying to get compensation from Easy on the basis that before they dispatched him to the frozen north, they knew they probably were not going to get him back.
If that is indeed the intent, I reckon the cause is lost on the basis that Easy and most Low Cost carriers sell tickets on a point-to-point basis so at most you can argue to get your return ticket back -which was no doubt refunded anyway.
Paull (another frequent flier!)
If that is indeed the intent, I reckon the cause is lost on the basis that Easy and most Low Cost carriers sell tickets on a point-to-point basis so at most you can argue to get your return ticket back -which was no doubt refunded anyway.
Paull (another frequent flier!)