Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff
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At least it's a start.
So far we're only preaching to the converted on this site and BALPA have done sweet f.a.
Why don't we append all the farcical events that have been posted on the threads covering this issue- you really couldn't make them up.
The DfT needs to realise it's 'got it wrong'.
So far we're only preaching to the converted on this site and BALPA have done sweet f.a.
Why don't we append all the farcical events that have been posted on the threads covering this issue- you really couldn't make them up.
The DfT needs to realise it's 'got it wrong'.
Lady Lexxington
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Maybe we should start copying these forums to the BBC, The Times, et al. Try and make them take notice. Although I can't believe that there are no journalists reading this particular fourm.
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When ?
About 6 pages back I asked when BALPA was going to meet the people from the DfT to talk about this issue, I have still to find out when this meeting is to take place.
As this is the biggest issue to in a long time to hit the industry in a long time in terms of flight safety , HF and quality of life I for one want to know when the flight crew point of view is going to be put to the DfT
In the back of my mind I am starting to ask if the large sum that I pay each month is getting me any reprisentation ?
As this is the biggest issue to in a long time to hit the industry in a long time in terms of flight safety , HF and quality of life I for one want to know when the flight crew point of view is going to be put to the DfT
In the back of my mind I am starting to ask if the large sum that I pay each month is getting me any reprisentation ?
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Why do they bother checking crew anyway? In case we break into the cockpit?
Not exactly difficult to fly everyone into a hill (indeed many have done it without trying) with or without the aid of a lipgloss, yoghourt and deodorant as were taken off my cabin crew today (and that was just the boys..).
If I could bring the aircraft down with a yoghourt I wouldn't be working here, I can assure you!
Not exactly difficult to fly everyone into a hill (indeed many have done it without trying) with or without the aid of a lipgloss, yoghourt and deodorant as were taken off my cabin crew today (and that was just the boys..).
If I could bring the aircraft down with a yoghourt I wouldn't be working here, I can assure you!
Last edited by birdonthewire; 3rd Sep 2006 at 23:07.
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About 6 pages back I asked when BALPA was going to meet the people from the DfT to talk about this issue, I have still to find out when this meeting is to take place.
As this is the biggest issue to in a long time to hit the industry in a long time in terms of flight safety , HF and quality of life I for one want to know when the flight crew point of view is going to be put to the DfT
In the back of my mind I am starting to ask if the large sum that I pay each month is getting me any reprisentation ?
As this is the biggest issue to in a long time to hit the industry in a long time in terms of flight safety , HF and quality of life I for one want to know when the flight crew point of view is going to be put to the DfT
In the back of my mind I am starting to ask if the large sum that I pay each month is getting me any reprisentation ?
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The public can sleep easier in their beds now knowing that when going through Crew Security in CWL last week the soles of my SOCKS were closely inspected by the Goon on duty - naturally my shoes were x rayed as well as I stood there in my uniform & ID.
The nightmare of positioning by air before/after duty requires great thought too - my flight bag is acceptable world wide except in the UK so has to go in the hold where it's at risk of loss or theft (or damage). Apart from the stupidity of it all my hold bag was lost once last year - one of my crew members lost hers twice in a week - so my subsequent flight could be delayed/cancelled as a result.
I know BALPA is working on this - I understand a meeting with TRANSEC or some such was scheduled for last Wednesday but don't know if it happened. We have to keep expressing our anger until TRANSEC is made to admit its folly. And why should UK passengers be only allowed a tiny cabin bag when elsewhere the world is (relatively) sane?
The nightmare of positioning by air before/after duty requires great thought too - my flight bag is acceptable world wide except in the UK so has to go in the hold where it's at risk of loss or theft (or damage). Apart from the stupidity of it all my hold bag was lost once last year - one of my crew members lost hers twice in a week - so my subsequent flight could be delayed/cancelled as a result.
I know BALPA is working on this - I understand a meeting with TRANSEC or some such was scheduled for last Wednesday but don't know if it happened. We have to keep expressing our anger until TRANSEC is made to admit its folly. And why should UK passengers be only allowed a tiny cabin bag when elsewhere the world is (relatively) sane?
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Let's Act
They won't be able to ignore us if we make ourselves heard via the proper channels. I am not saying PPRUNE hasn't got any impact but it is just a rumour forum.
If we all send a letter to BALPA saying enough is enough, then BALPA in turn will have enough material to make them realise the extent of discontent.
We have to start somewhere and get organized.
SF
If we all send a letter to BALPA saying enough is enough, then BALPA in turn will have enough material to make them realise the extent of discontent.
We have to start somewhere and get organized.
SF
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Thanks for the contact details MJ
May I suggest we make a start with this today - address and phone number as above. It's time we took this outside into the (un)real world.
We should also post any replies/conversations we have.
May I suggest we make a start with this today - address and phone number as above. It's time we took this outside into the (un)real world.
We should also post any replies/conversations we have.
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Lack of BALPA feedback ?
If as reported above the meeting between the DfT and BALPA did not go well I think the BALPA members should be told.
If the DfT will not listen to BALPA then it is time for more action via my MP or to use the people that this goverment is most eager to please....... the press!
If the DfT will not listen to BALPA then it is time for more action via my MP or to use the people that this goverment is most eager to please....... the press!
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As a FF pax I read this thread with increasing concern. If a fraction of the comments on it are I true, I would now appear to be at greater risk from discombobulated flightcrew than I ever was from the fizzy pop brigade!
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Agree with much of what has been said, especially the fact that the airports make a fine distinction between the safety aspects and financial aspects. By the latter I mean the revenue generated by shops airside. What aspects of security are served by taking a pilot's or crewmember's soft drinks away when everyone is free to buy flammable liquids in glass bottles from duty-free which have been "vetted at source"? What does that mean? That a nameless person working in a factory has stood next to the drinks machine that puts the caps on? Whenver I ask this question there is either silence or the more usual "those are the rules" BS. The last time I looked security as a concept was introduced many decades ago to protect aircraft and crew from passengers who may have other ideas about flying from those of trained aircrew. There was never any suggestion in the early days that crews would even think about endangering an a/c or its occupants. Why are we now branded as public enemy no.1? 9/11 was not caused by pilots but by people posing as passengers with a bit of pilot training. Regardless of whether one is in charge of a 300 tonne a/c or a 5 tonne a/c, we know what to do with it because we've spent a great deal of time and money obtaining licences that authorize us to operate said a/c. The fact that the CAA takes money from pilots and engineers doesn't mean it is not essentially a national agency responsible for authorizing us to carry out our duties. As far as I'm concerned the govt. knows who I am and what I am doing with aeroplanes. I have provided personal details and references and a clean police record to obtain an airport pass. I and all other airport staff are very easily traceable if the airport authority wishes to find out who I am and where I have been.
Profiling is the way to go. Separate crew channels should be available at all airports. If the punters don't see what pilots or airport staff are allowed to "get away with" there won't be a perception by security staff that somehow there is a security breakdown if pilots and cabin crew are allowed to carry sandwiches and toothpaste. And if you could see (you probably do at your own airport) some of the Neanderthals that are employed at airports by private firms you would laugh if they weren't annoying you. These people wouldn't get jobs as doormen in sh*tty nightclubs because they're rubbish yet they are authorized to decide that a pilot is unsafe to fly pax around the country in busy airspace just because we carry overnight kits.
Profiling is the way to go. Separate crew channels should be available at all airports. If the punters don't see what pilots or airport staff are allowed to "get away with" there won't be a perception by security staff that somehow there is a security breakdown if pilots and cabin crew are allowed to carry sandwiches and toothpaste. And if you could see (you probably do at your own airport) some of the Neanderthals that are employed at airports by private firms you would laugh if they weren't annoying you. These people wouldn't get jobs as doormen in sh*tty nightclubs because they're rubbish yet they are authorized to decide that a pilot is unsafe to fly pax around the country in busy airspace just because we carry overnight kits.
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The day the dreaded "terrorist" finds a way of putting his semtex in a cigar tube and putting it where Mr " Papillon" stored his is the day that crew security will become very messy indeed!
The fact of the matter is where do you draw the line at security screening, the logical conclusion to the present policy is..never.
Bend over boys and girls welcome to the New World.
The fact of the matter is where do you draw the line at security screening, the logical conclusion to the present policy is..never.
Bend over boys and girls welcome to the New World.
There's no doubt in my mind that these out-of-control 'security' checks are creating a serious safety hazard for our industry.
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Security?? Gone Mad
ATC staff going through security to go to work at a major London airport ;
Confiscated items include ; milk (for coffee / tea), toothpaste (mouth like a badgers bum at 0500 !), lipsalve, lipstick, microwavable meals if contain sauce ! - need I go on ?
When will this madness stop. Staff arrive at work with steam coming out of their ears - VERY conducive to flight safery.
Just who comes up with these idiotic rules ?
STEAMing of Gatwick
Confiscated items include ; milk (for coffee / tea), toothpaste (mouth like a badgers bum at 0500 !), lipsalve, lipstick, microwavable meals if contain sauce ! - need I go on ?
When will this madness stop. Staff arrive at work with steam coming out of their ears - VERY conducive to flight safery.
Just who comes up with these idiotic rules ?
STEAMing of Gatwick
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I do heartedly agree with xetroV's point - as if we don't have enough hoops to jump though to get the aircraft off the ground.
I don't blame the bods in security- they're just paid to do a job on the orders of the muppets higher up.
However I would like to be left alone to do mine.
Pleasant as I try to be to them, it does get very grating to be pointlessly searched and put under suspicion day in day out. Going airside's not a good start to the day.
I see the basic argument to the Dft based around the bleeding obvious - if the crew want to take out the plane and pax they will -with or without the aid of a yoghourt - and no amount of 'security' will change that!
I don't blame the bods in security- they're just paid to do a job on the orders of the muppets higher up.
However I would like to be left alone to do mine.
Pleasant as I try to be to them, it does get very grating to be pointlessly searched and put under suspicion day in day out. Going airside's not a good start to the day.
I see the basic argument to the Dft based around the bleeding obvious - if the crew want to take out the plane and pax they will -with or without the aid of a yoghourt - and no amount of 'security' will change that!