Ryanair/Channel 4 dispatches Programme
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Originally Posted by MrBeach
I have not seen the C4 programme. But Ryanair pilots are among the best i Europe.
Bear in mind,
Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.
Bear in mind,
Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.
So once you have failed one interview for what ever reason, then you are not safe to fly for another?
Crass beyond belief.
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To be fair to Mr Beach I think he is saying that although the rejected pilots may have been rejected by RYR, they were sufficiently competent to be taken on by other airlines, reinforcing his view that Ryanair pilots are the creme de la creme, not suggesting that they were useless.
As my username suggests I am not qualified to comment on whether his view is correct or not, but I'm sure others will!
As my username suggests I am not qualified to comment on whether his view is correct or not, but I'm sure others will!
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We were only 2 out of 7 who passed the Ryanair pilot Assessment the day i did it. And 3 pilots who failed are flying the Boeing737 in other companys. They did not passed. Just not good enogh in manual flying or in technical knowledge.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Originally Posted by hostienomore
OK - if the reporters were NOT allowed to film in the air, then how did they manage to capture crew members sleeping???? Those cabin crew could have been on the ground taking a 5 min nap on a delay!
If they were sleepin in the air then dispatches have broken all rules by filming on an aircraft which is airbourne.
If they were sleepin in the air then dispatches have broken all rules by filming on an aircraft which is airbourne.
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Ryanair has brought reality back alive. Real flying, hard working ..... a true pilot enviroment. High weights (LOADS OF PAX), short runways loads of non precision and circling approaches and quick turnarounds. In short a dream.
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Prevailing truths.
Memo to MOL: in the real world the facts come to bear in the end.
What you refuse, churlishly, to acknowledge though, is that the truth will set you free. How free do you wish to be, GGV?
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Didn't PARC Aviation get into hot water a couple years ago when an internal memo about the quality of people being hired by LoCo's was leaked to the press? It wasn't too complimentary as I recall.
They had to eat their words of course.
Total rubbish....they should know!
They had to eat their words of course.
Total rubbish....they should know!
Oops pardon me
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Perhaps Mr Beach's rejected pilots failed their assesments because they insisted on doing a walk round instead of a runaround.
I must admit that I have never heard such "I am so up myself" comments on a thread on here. Ministry of self importance or what!!!
Just because you flew the sim well on the day and said all the right company lines to the assesor doesn't make you God's gift to aviation.
That right is reserved for the gifted who flew the 727 with Air Contractors!!!!
Coop & Bear
I must admit that I have never heard such "I am so up myself" comments on a thread on here. Ministry of self importance or what!!!
Just because you flew the sim well on the day and said all the right company lines to the assesor doesn't make you God's gift to aviation.
That right is reserved for the gifted who flew the 727 with Air Contractors!!!!
Coop & Bear
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Hey Leo. Thanks for the reply, but you don’t seem to have read my post with sufficient care, possibly because you think you know who I am. One way or another all your remarks seem curiously off target. It’s like you are fighting a war for the meaning of truth (a hint of postmodernism there Leo!) and that you don’t read the words for what they say. I’ll try to put it again in another way:
You say to a ship’s captain that his crew contains many who fear for the seaworthiness of the vessel. You say you are not up to speed with all of this, but that some of the evidence seems worrying. You say to the captain that he is the boss and ask that instead of relying on endless positive statements and threats to the crew that he might examine the evidence by reflecting upon it away from the public arena. You say that the sea is unforgiving and that it would therefore be a mistake to confuse rhetorical skills with seaworthiness.
You then ask him to think, rather than do more propaganda. You do this in a neutral way – as in, “I’m only making some observations and suggesting that you reflect a bit, ‘cause you are ‘de man’ not me and what you say is what counts”. Thus it was just an invitation to stop and think, and maybe even consider that you might have got it wrong (horror of horrors). By definition that is not the kind of activity best done in public – nor, were it to have been taken at face value, would it have generated a reply here on pprune.
After all, there are real judgments being made here. And, as for your question to me,
Leo I think I am a lot freer that you are, for you are manifestly imprisoned, shaped and driven by an ideology and I am not.
You say to a ship’s captain that his crew contains many who fear for the seaworthiness of the vessel. You say you are not up to speed with all of this, but that some of the evidence seems worrying. You say to the captain that he is the boss and ask that instead of relying on endless positive statements and threats to the crew that he might examine the evidence by reflecting upon it away from the public arena. You say that the sea is unforgiving and that it would therefore be a mistake to confuse rhetorical skills with seaworthiness.
You then ask him to think, rather than do more propaganda. You do this in a neutral way – as in, “I’m only making some observations and suggesting that you reflect a bit, ‘cause you are ‘de man’ not me and what you say is what counts”. Thus it was just an invitation to stop and think, and maybe even consider that you might have got it wrong (horror of horrors). By definition that is not the kind of activity best done in public – nor, were it to have been taken at face value, would it have generated a reply here on pprune.
After all, there are real judgments being made here. And, as for your question to me,
How free do you wish to be, GGV?
Just a numbered other
Leo:
That'll be the kind of truth which allows liar MOL to suggest that his pilots work an average of 18 hours a week, then.
the truth will set you free.
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I'd like to come in on Mr Beach's line about rejected pilots - I think I may be one of the failures to which he refers.
I didn't get a DEC job with Ryanair. Mind you, I didn't really want one. I was only going to apply when all other possibilities were exhausted but I was brow-beaten into it by the "management" at home on the basis that I couldn't afford not to apply for everything. Ryanair's selection day was the first assessment/interview I attended in my current job campaign. I will give them this: They moved like lightning to get me to EMA for their "day" - much quicker than any other company.
I didn't get an offer because I didn't press the right buttons at the interview and I kept asking awkward questions which the "pilot recruitment co-ordinator" wouldn't answer. I don't mean "couldn't", I mean "wouldn't". He was a shifty, evasive little O'Leary clone who couldn't look me in the eye. I asked much the same questions of the TC doing the assessment and met a completely different response. He was a pleasant fellow. I rather liked him.
So, "O'Leary Clone" turned down an ex-RAF FJ, current BA A320 Captain with 14,000 hours and a total of 13 years experience as an instructor/TC.
I am currently trying to pick one out of three good offers which I have, all qualitatively better than working for Ryanair.
At the selection day I gained the impression that, on the flight-deck at least, Ryanair is as professional as any other airline.
I think the C4 Dispatches programme was pathetic - until the last ten-fifteen minutes when the true nature of the beast was revealed to the public. What the public does with the information is up to the public.
FWIW, Ryanair pilots are the best-paid shorthaul pilots in Europe - apart from BA shorthaul pilots, Air France shorthaul pilots, Lufthansa shorthaul pilots and Iberia shorthaul pilots to name but four.
Cheers.
Ws
I didn't get a DEC job with Ryanair. Mind you, I didn't really want one. I was only going to apply when all other possibilities were exhausted but I was brow-beaten into it by the "management" at home on the basis that I couldn't afford not to apply for everything. Ryanair's selection day was the first assessment/interview I attended in my current job campaign. I will give them this: They moved like lightning to get me to EMA for their "day" - much quicker than any other company.
I didn't get an offer because I didn't press the right buttons at the interview and I kept asking awkward questions which the "pilot recruitment co-ordinator" wouldn't answer. I don't mean "couldn't", I mean "wouldn't". He was a shifty, evasive little O'Leary clone who couldn't look me in the eye. I asked much the same questions of the TC doing the assessment and met a completely different response. He was a pleasant fellow. I rather liked him.
So, "O'Leary Clone" turned down an ex-RAF FJ, current BA A320 Captain with 14,000 hours and a total of 13 years experience as an instructor/TC.
I am currently trying to pick one out of three good offers which I have, all qualitatively better than working for Ryanair.
At the selection day I gained the impression that, on the flight-deck at least, Ryanair is as professional as any other airline.
I think the C4 Dispatches programme was pathetic - until the last ten-fifteen minutes when the true nature of the beast was revealed to the public. What the public does with the information is up to the public.
FWIW, Ryanair pilots are the best-paid shorthaul pilots in Europe - apart from BA shorthaul pilots, Air France shorthaul pilots, Lufthansa shorthaul pilots and Iberia shorthaul pilots to name but four.
Cheers.
Ws
Uncle Pete
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Wingswinger
From what I've seen on this thread you've had a lucky escape.
Just because a pilot doesn't get a job with a particular airline doesn't mean to say he's
He's just not their sort of person for whatever reason.
Strong sub-cultures exist wthin the operating environment of an airline and if you don't fit in life can be very very miserable.
Good luck in your next job
MP
From what I've seen on this thread you've had a lucky escape.
Just because a pilot doesn't get a job with a particular airline doesn't mean to say he's
He's just not their sort of person for whatever reason.Strong sub-cultures exist wthin the operating environment of an airline and if you don't fit in life can be very very miserable.
Good luck in your next job
MP
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To fail an interview or assesment means nothing, everybody knows that
To say that any particular company has the best pilots that is wrong and insulting to other colleagues, everybody knows that.
I have enough years and experience in the industry to be able to say that every company has good pilots and average pilots, good people and bad people and that is TRUE regardless of nationality.
Ryanair pilots have good handling skills by nature of the type of flying they do but you need other skills as well to be consider good pilot.
Humility is one !!!
By the way I worked for RYANAIR as well.
Great people with nice multinational enviroment.
To say that any particular company has the best pilots that is wrong and insulting to other colleagues, everybody knows that.
I have enough years and experience in the industry to be able to say that every company has good pilots and average pilots, good people and bad people and that is TRUE regardless of nationality.
Ryanair pilots have good handling skills by nature of the type of flying they do but you need other skills as well to be consider good pilot.
Humility is one !!!
By the way I worked for RYANAIR as well.
Great people with nice multinational enviroment.
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I doubt if any of this will impact the public who fly Ryanair much. While I watching the programme, (which I was a bit disappointed with). I turned to my wife and said 'Are you watching this programme about Ryanair?'. 'Oh yes' she says. 'Ryanair they are having a seat sale until midnight. Let's get on the computer and book a weekend away.' Well she is blonde
. I thought I had indoctrinated her better. So now we are going to Girona almost as a direct result of the programme. Bad publicity, what bad publicity?
I could have stood on my principles but I'm more afraid of her than anything Ryanair could throw at me. Besides I trust the pilots, some of whom are friends of mine, to be professional. However I do believe and I think the programme highlighted this. The culture of the company. The whole approach to dealing with it's employees and customers will in the end kill people.
I just can't help feeling that one bad weather day a fatigued Captain or one that has already had a brush with his boss will make a decision based on his fear of losing his job or demotion and make just one more approach..................................
. I thought I had indoctrinated her better. So now we are going to Girona almost as a direct result of the programme. Bad publicity, what bad publicity?I could have stood on my principles but I'm more afraid of her than anything Ryanair could throw at me. Besides I trust the pilots, some of whom are friends of mine, to be professional. However I do believe and I think the programme highlighted this. The culture of the company. The whole approach to dealing with it's employees and customers will in the end kill people.
I just can't help feeling that one bad weather day a fatigued Captain or one that has already had a brush with his boss will make a decision based on his fear of losing his job or demotion and make just one more approach..................................
The culture of the company. The whole approach to dealing with it's employees and customers will in the end kill people.
I just can't help feeling that one bad weather day a fatigued Captain or one that has already had a brush with his boss will make a decision based on his fear of losing his job or demotion and make just one more approach..................................
True, sadly. I suspect that these circumstances can be traced as a pattern in many incidents.
In all this, I can't help but recall the Valujet fire in Florida. The whole concept of "the show must go on" having tragic consequences.
I just can't help feeling that one bad weather day a fatigued Captain or one that has already had a brush with his boss will make a decision based on his fear of losing his job or demotion and make just one more approach..................................
True, sadly. I suspect that these circumstances can be traced as a pattern in many incidents.
In all this, I can't help but recall the Valujet fire in Florida. The whole concept of "the show must go on" having tragic consequences.
News of this programme has even reached the Far East. From today's South China Morning Post (Hong Kong), written by Anna Healey-Fenton.
No Frills, no cheers.
European low-cost carrier Ryanair may have grown to 40 million passengers in 20 years without an accident, but anyone who saw the British Channel 4 Dispatches documentary last week about the budget airline probably shuddered.
Though the footage shot by two undercover reporters posing as staff showed nothing specifcally alarming, seeing crew with no time to clean vomit from seats between flights and falling asleep on duty did not inspire confidence.
Ryanair's tyically impudent response was to raise two fingers to the programme abd take full-page advertisemsnts offereing three million "0 GBP tickets - just pay taxes and charges".
It's hard to disagree with industry magazine Flight International's call for Ryanair's operating model to undergo a full audit.
No Frills, no cheers.
European low-cost carrier Ryanair may have grown to 40 million passengers in 20 years without an accident, but anyone who saw the British Channel 4 Dispatches documentary last week about the budget airline probably shuddered.
Though the footage shot by two undercover reporters posing as staff showed nothing specifcally alarming, seeing crew with no time to clean vomit from seats between flights and falling asleep on duty did not inspire confidence.
Ryanair's tyically impudent response was to raise two fingers to the programme abd take full-page advertisemsnts offereing three million "0 GBP tickets - just pay taxes and charges".
It's hard to disagree with industry magazine Flight International's call for Ryanair's operating model to undergo a full audit.
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Everyone is still harping (intentional) on about Ryanair as if they are all alone out there as the only airline "guilty" of the Channel 4 accusations!
Other posters have explained that things in their airline are just as bad.
bmi baby, Jet2, Easyjet and quite a few more. All as bad according to real life employees of those airlines. Much better to hear from the horse's mouth than to believe edited TV documentaries aimed at one victim.
It really annoys me that Channel 4 have installed "Ryanair blinkers" on most of the viewing public. It annoys me just as much that the viewing public don't seem to have the brains to reach up and remove them!
Never mind though....the next airline to leave a smoking wreck in a hole in the ground will catch your attention (though some which have already achieved that distinction seem to have been forgiven.....blame the pilot is always such a good ploy, isn't it). I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the name on the side of the wreckage is not Ryanair.
Other posters have explained that things in their airline are just as bad.
bmi baby, Jet2, Easyjet and quite a few more. All as bad according to real life employees of those airlines. Much better to hear from the horse's mouth than to believe edited TV documentaries aimed at one victim.
It really annoys me that Channel 4 have installed "Ryanair blinkers" on most of the viewing public. It annoys me just as much that the viewing public don't seem to have the brains to reach up and remove them!
Never mind though....the next airline to leave a smoking wreck in a hole in the ground will catch your attention (though some which have already achieved that distinction seem to have been forgiven.....blame the pilot is always such a good ploy, isn't it). I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the name on the side of the wreckage is not Ryanair.
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I wonder how many people who post replies in this thread actually work for Ryanair or have actually had first hand experience of the way Ryanair actually look upon their staff.
It's easy for outsiders to cast an opinion on what they perceive to be going on, but if they had the true facts, they would be even more rattled than what they were after watching the Channel 4 programme.
It's easy for outsiders to cast an opinion on what they perceive to be going on, but if they had the true facts, they would be even more rattled than what they were after watching the Channel 4 programme.