Ryanair/Channel 4 dispatches Programme
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Channel 4 is running a poll on its Dispatches page asking
Are you prepared to put up with poor service in exchange for cheap flights?
Here are current results...
Yes 28%
No 69%
Undecided 3%
Ok not very scientific and you don't know how many have voted but it does give some indication of public feeling.
I still think there may be more fallout from this programme.....
Are you prepared to put up with poor service in exchange for cheap flights?
Here are current results...
Yes 28%
No 69%
Undecided 3%
Ok not very scientific and you don't know how many have voted but it does give some indication of public feeling.
I still think there may be more fallout from this programme.....
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Brabazon
And yet every day thousands of people do just that. Why? Because it is cheap. And because it is the UK the most they will do is mutter and grumble under their breath. If they feel seriously wronged they may even write a strongly worded letter of complaint to The Times. And will they go out and buy another cheap seat next time they want to fly? You can bet your bottom dollar they will.
IMHO this programme should have been a vehicle for exposing the potentially dangerous erosion of employees terms & conditions. It should have rammed home to people exactly what was being cut in order to provide their 'bargain basement' tickets. Instead we got a very superficial 'docu-soap' that did very little to raise serious concerns and even less to open peoples eyes to the difference between value for money and cheap as chips!
And yet every day thousands of people do just that. Why? Because it is cheap. And because it is the UK the most they will do is mutter and grumble under their breath. If they feel seriously wronged they may even write a strongly worded letter of complaint to The Times. And will they go out and buy another cheap seat next time they want to fly? You can bet your bottom dollar they will.
IMHO this programme should have been a vehicle for exposing the potentially dangerous erosion of employees terms & conditions. It should have rammed home to people exactly what was being cut in order to provide their 'bargain basement' tickets. Instead we got a very superficial 'docu-soap' that did very little to raise serious concerns and even less to open peoples eyes to the difference between value for money and cheap as chips!
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Air travel can never become a glorified "cheap bus service"... you can't just expect to roll up and "jump aboard". That's how Lockerbie happened. Someone has to pay for the security measures. Airlines have done their bit by installing the enhanced flight deck doors - all that does is to make sure that the pilots employed by the airline are the only ones flying the aircraft. The only people/organisation able to stop nasties ever setting foot on the aircraft is terminal security.
Completely in agreement with coopervane, UK airport security can be a farce. Having passed through several in the course of duty, it becomes quite obvious that standards vary enormously. Worst bit is, nobody can blame the officers themselves, they all do their job well and as per their brief.
If you go to any major US airport, the difference is stark. Passenger suitcases visually checked by humans. Shoes off, belts off etc... and that's just standard measures. If you still beep, you're taken aside and almost strip searched. As Crew, you are treated no differently, sometimes even more harshly. The TSA take no prisoners and good on them. Why can't things be like this over here? If they can confiscate pairs of scissors, why not dis-allow expired temporary IDs?
Completely in agreement with coopervane, UK airport security can be a farce. Having passed through several in the course of duty, it becomes quite obvious that standards vary enormously. Worst bit is, nobody can blame the officers themselves, they all do their job well and as per their brief.
If you go to any major US airport, the difference is stark. Passenger suitcases visually checked by humans. Shoes off, belts off etc... and that's just standard measures. If you still beep, you're taken aside and almost strip searched. As Crew, you are treated no differently, sometimes even more harshly. The TSA take no prisoners and good on them. Why can't things be like this over here? If they can confiscate pairs of scissors, why not dis-allow expired temporary IDs?
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Passengers scream for improved airport security but only if:
1. It can't slow me down any further.
2. It mustn't be a hastle for me.
3. It mustn't infringe on my personal integrity.
4. It mustn't increase my expenses in any way.
Consider also that the staff working security are people same as us and they make mistakes. It'd be easy to get 99.99% security, but the check-in would take 5 hours, the walkaround 5 more and a flight london paris would be 2000€. It's all a CHOSEN level of security Vs profit and expense and yes there are people sitting in cubicles computing what a travelers life is worth when time comes to decide on security expenses and operating procedures. Everything is a calculated risk, be it a small one.
1. It can't slow me down any further.
2. It mustn't be a hastle for me.
3. It mustn't infringe on my personal integrity.
4. It mustn't increase my expenses in any way.
Consider also that the staff working security are people same as us and they make mistakes. It'd be easy to get 99.99% security, but the check-in would take 5 hours, the walkaround 5 more and a flight london paris would be 2000€. It's all a CHOSEN level of security Vs profit and expense and yes there are people sitting in cubicles computing what a travelers life is worth when time comes to decide on security expenses and operating procedures. Everything is a calculated risk, be it a small one.
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True indeed Gnirren.
Reminds me of that old dum dum non-aviation person question:
"If the black box always survives, why don't they make the passenger compartment like a black box so no-one will ever get killed?"
The answer of course in a word is weight. I wonder what a €50 fare would become if such an a/c was ever built with existing technology. Multiply by somewhere inbetween 10 and 100.
As you say, everything is a calculated risk, be it a small one.
Reminds me of that old dum dum non-aviation person question:
"If the black box always survives, why don't they make the passenger compartment like a black box so no-one will ever get killed?"
The answer of course in a word is weight. I wonder what a €50 fare would become if such an a/c was ever built with existing technology. Multiply by somewhere inbetween 10 and 100.
As you say, everything is a calculated risk, be it a small one.
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not just poor service
Are you prepared to put up with poor service in exchange for cheap flights?
"Are you prepared to put up with allegedly lower safety in exchange for cheap flights?"
All the posts that retrospectively state that "someone has flown with Ryan for however many times and never crashed" are irrelevant to the issue that the program was trying to address, They also don't contribute anything substantive to the important question of how to constructively change what is allegedly bad in this airline.
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Looking back over this thread I think there is a reasonably clear distinction between many of the posts (and posters) pre-broadcast and post-broadcast. Lots of distress before the event on Ryanair’s behalf, much of which had a tone entirely consistent with their masterful P.R. strategy (and it was indeed masterful). The pre-transmission crowd was often outraged and upset, to the extent of even making formal complaints about an un-transmitted programme! Then it turns out that the programme was disappointing for most aviation insiders, even if it contained some telling insights for those able and willing to look. Afterwards, the P.R. counter-attack took place “on cue” and any publicity that was generated was directed towards the promotion of “free seats” on Ryanair flights. Whatever else may be said about Ryanair, it must be acknowledged that its crisis management and product promotion is of a markedly high quality.
Memo to MOL: in the real world the facts come to bear in the end. If the underlying foundations are based on myth and painted with colourful coats of paint then they will still collapse in keeping with the degree of objective weakness. A wise CEO might wish to rely less on verbal and P.R. skills than on getting the middle management team and Post Holders functioning in accordance with both JAA requirements and the objective facts. It’s the latter that will get you in the end because they are like gravity and the sea, omni-present and unforgiving. If the underlying foundations are sound, then there is nothing to worry about. It's your choice, because you are in the “hot seat”; but it might be worth stopping to reflect awhile.
Memo to MOL: in the real world the facts come to bear in the end. If the underlying foundations are based on myth and painted with colourful coats of paint then they will still collapse in keeping with the degree of objective weakness. A wise CEO might wish to rely less on verbal and P.R. skills than on getting the middle management team and Post Holders functioning in accordance with both JAA requirements and the objective facts. It’s the latter that will get you in the end because they are like gravity and the sea, omni-present and unforgiving. If the underlying foundations are sound, then there is nothing to worry about. It's your choice, because you are in the “hot seat”; but it might be worth stopping to reflect awhile.
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Ryanair safe? You bet.
I have not seen the C4 programme. But Ryanair pilots are among the best i Europe.
We were only 2 out of 7 who passed the Ryanair pilot Assessment the day i did it. And 3 pilots who failed are flying the Boeing737 in other companys. They did not passed. Just not good enogh in manual flying or in technical knowledge.
Ryanair only wants the best pilots. This is also why Ryanairpilots are "best paid shorthaulpilots in Europe".And I think Ryanair safetyrecord speeks for it self.
THIS IS WHY I ALWAYS FLY RYANAIR.
Bear in mind,
Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.
We were only 2 out of 7 who passed the Ryanair pilot Assessment the day i did it. And 3 pilots who failed are flying the Boeing737 in other companys. They did not passed. Just not good enogh in manual flying or in technical knowledge.
Ryanair only wants the best pilots. This is also why Ryanairpilots are "best paid shorthaulpilots in Europe".And I think Ryanair safetyrecord speeks for it self.
THIS IS WHY I ALWAYS FLY RYANAIR.
Bear in mind,
Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.
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Nobody ever contemplated that Lockerbie would happen. It did. We developed strict baggage control - AAA and BRS systems in airports that ensure that the person who checks in is the same person that boards the aircraft (assuming the crew bother to check their passport that is...) and that their associated hold luggage doesn't travel without them.
Nobody ever contemplated that 9/11 would happen. It did. We developed everything-proof flight deck doors at huge financial cost to airlines, not to mention the cost to CRM. The knock-on effect to business drowned several BIG airlines and stifled many others.
Nobody ever contemplated that so soon after 9/11, another flight would be interfered with. Yet the Shoe-bomber managed to get as far as attempting to detonate his deadly device whilst airborne!!!
What has to happen next to change things... or shouldn't someone decide that enough harsh lessons to the rest of the world are enough? If nothing else of substance was highlighted by this programme, maybe this was.
Not a criticism, just an observation.
Nobody ever contemplated that 9/11 would happen. It did. We developed everything-proof flight deck doors at huge financial cost to airlines, not to mention the cost to CRM. The knock-on effect to business drowned several BIG airlines and stifled many others.
Nobody ever contemplated that so soon after 9/11, another flight would be interfered with. Yet the Shoe-bomber managed to get as far as attempting to detonate his deadly device whilst airborne!!!
What has to happen next to change things... or shouldn't someone decide that enough harsh lessons to the rest of the world are enough? If nothing else of substance was highlighted by this programme, maybe this was.
Not a criticism, just an observation.
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OK - if the reporters were NOT allowed to film in the air, then how did they manage to capture crew members sleeping???? Those cabin crew could have been on the ground taking a 5 min nap on a delay!
If they were sleepin in the air then dispatches have broken all rules by filming on an aircraft which is airbourne.
I used to work for FR and the statment by the reporter saying that cc only get £14 per sector? Untrue! Who in their right minds would work long and hard hours for £14 per sector? CC also get a basic pay on top of that.
About the sick - i would NEVER have departed with that lying on the floor in a completely full flight. Any Captain would have happily called out the airport cleaners for me! I should know it happened a few times.
FR take safety VERY seriously! I dont know any pilot who would be willing to fly a plane with a tech problem and risk their own lives.
The bars on board have to be sealed on the ground due to customs and as someone said in an earlier post, can you imagine them getting clearance for take off and the cabin is not secure because drink trolleys are out and all the pax are sitting with tray tables down.
AND the story in an earlier post about the crew having to axe a toilet door oper - as if! ALL crew are trained to open the door from the outside and as a no1 i made sure all my crew knew at the beginning of the day just incase of a medical emergency or someone smoking.
I hope this clears up a couple of points for some people!
If they were sleepin in the air then dispatches have broken all rules by filming on an aircraft which is airbourne.
I used to work for FR and the statment by the reporter saying that cc only get £14 per sector? Untrue! Who in their right minds would work long and hard hours for £14 per sector? CC also get a basic pay on top of that.
About the sick - i would NEVER have departed with that lying on the floor in a completely full flight. Any Captain would have happily called out the airport cleaners for me! I should know it happened a few times.
FR take safety VERY seriously! I dont know any pilot who would be willing to fly a plane with a tech problem and risk their own lives.
The bars on board have to be sealed on the ground due to customs and as someone said in an earlier post, can you imagine them getting clearance for take off and the cabin is not secure because drink trolleys are out and all the pax are sitting with tray tables down.
AND the story in an earlier post about the crew having to axe a toilet door oper - as if! ALL crew are trained to open the door from the outside and as a no1 i made sure all my crew knew at the beginning of the day just incase of a medical emergency or someone smoking.
I hope this clears up a couple of points for some people!
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Ryanair safe? You bet.
I have not seen the C4 programme. But Ryanair pilots are among the best i Europe.
We were only 2 out of 7 who passed the Ryanair pilot Assessment the day i did it. And 3 pilots who failed are flying the Boeing737 in other companys. They did not passed. Just not good enogh in manual flying or in technical knowledge.
Ryanair only wants the best pilots. This is also why Ryanairpilots are "best paid shorthaulpilots in Europe".And I think Ryanair safetyrecord speeks for it self.
THIS IS WHY I ALWAYS FLY RYANAIR.
Bear in mind,
Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.
We were only 2 out of 7 who passed the Ryanair pilot Assessment the day i did it. And 3 pilots who failed are flying the Boeing737 in other companys. They did not passed. Just not good enogh in manual flying or in technical knowledge.
Ryanair only wants the best pilots. This is also why Ryanairpilots are "best paid shorthaulpilots in Europe".And I think Ryanair safetyrecord speeks for it self.
THIS IS WHY I ALWAYS FLY RYANAIR.
Bear in mind,
Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.
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This has already been posted this in the Channel 4 thread. The content of the post I will leave to others to comment on - looks like there are lots of opportunities for logic chopping here!
Plumbum Pendular
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Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.
If no pilot who had ever failed an assesment was enever given a job there would hardly be any pilots flying at all!
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Hmm. Reminds me of BA in a contradictory way.
I've always had respect for BA's standards and safety record. (I won't consider efficiency/slickness.....that's a completely different story).
It defies logic, though, when one sees the sort of people they've recruited over the years. Time and time again they've taken on complete dipsticks (and I mean real dumbos) and yet rejected good operators.
I've always had respect for BA's standards and safety record. (I won't consider efficiency/slickness.....that's a completely different story).
It defies logic, though, when one sees the sort of people they've recruited over the years. Time and time again they've taken on complete dipsticks (and I mean real dumbos) and yet rejected good operators.
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Mr Beach,
I hope their English is better than yours!!.I have an aviation photography business and use an aircraft radio to obtain call signs to ensure I get the correct flight if requested to do a photo.
I have done this at Stansted and had no problem with EZY and others but could only make out a few call signs for 'RyanDARE'.
I just hope ATC at Stansted have degrees in Eastern European languages.
WTDWL.
I hope their English is better than yours!!.I have an aviation photography business and use an aircraft radio to obtain call signs to ensure I get the correct flight if requested to do a photo.
I have done this at Stansted and had no problem with EZY and others but could only make out a few call signs for 'RyanDARE'.
I just hope ATC at Stansted have degrees in Eastern European languages.
WTDWL.