Ryanair/Channel 4 dispatches Programme
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Ryanair boast on their website they have “consistently beaten Easyjet for 145 weeks in a row” on punctuality. The TV programme shows how that’s done. In all this posting no one has mentioned the Ryanair “repeated” memos to cc to conform in regard to gash. Why repeated? Because the problem is repeated, therefore it must be difficult for cc to get the tasks all done in turnaround.
As for the lack of written records on slide and vomit this is not uncommon in climate of fear.
For the three hour delay in Spain, blurring the faces of the flight crew was a waste of time, as their id will be easy for interested parties. Three hours wait was longer than the expected flight time – if is so important to not open the bars – could they have sent out for some water to be brought? It is not expensive in Spain.
Trainees may write each other's references but it’s Ryanair that happily accept those references. Anyone who has recruited and checked references knows that a lot of references are phony.
Being SO low cost like free and 1 euro means you have to push the rules to the absolute limits to keep it all going. As I said before I like that other low cost airlines treat their staff more respectfully, and do not object to union representation.
As for the lack of written records on slide and vomit this is not uncommon in climate of fear.
For the three hour delay in Spain, blurring the faces of the flight crew was a waste of time, as their id will be easy for interested parties. Three hours wait was longer than the expected flight time – if is so important to not open the bars – could they have sent out for some water to be brought? It is not expensive in Spain.
Trainees may write each other's references but it’s Ryanair that happily accept those references. Anyone who has recruited and checked references knows that a lot of references are phony.
Being SO low cost like free and 1 euro means you have to push the rules to the absolute limits to keep it all going. As I said before I like that other low cost airlines treat their staff more respectfully, and do not object to union representation.
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You don't just 'send out for water' at an airport. You have to find a caterer who's open, then you have to have pay them whatever exorbitant sum they want to charge you for bottles of water, not to mention getting someone to approve the expenditure at midnight (unless you think the skipper should pay for it out of his own pocket and trust me, it is expensive when you uplift catering in those circumstances). If it was as easy as you think it was then it would have been done. If you think a three hour delay in Spain is unique to Ryanair then you've obviously never been on a charter flight down there that went tech.
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Shirley if Ryanair is such a sh*t employer then the flight deck crew should resign and go get a better job with someone else?
Well, shouldn't they?
Everyone carps about their employer at some stage, but if they're really serious they should get out and let other eager pilots in.
It's all a means to an end: most serious professions have a few sh*t years while climbing the ladder: look at the NHS..........................
Cusco
Well, shouldn't they?
Everyone carps about their employer at some stage, but if they're really serious they should get out and let other eager pilots in.
It's all a means to an end: most serious professions have a few sh*t years while climbing the ladder: look at the NHS..........................
Cusco
Alba Gu Brath
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One wonders how many hundreds of hours of recording that C4 had to filter through in order to arrive at this fairly short piece of garbage. 'Sensationalist reporting' is normally derided by the majority of ppruners, why not this one. Because it concerns Ryanair perhaps?
So, how does this programme affect the lives of the professional pilots amongst us? Not one jot. If the pilots shown in this docu-soap are unhappy with their chosen employer, chose another one.
Anecodotal (and some supported) evidence from the pages of Pprune has brought to light various concerns regarding working practices at FR. This programme did little to validate these concerns IMHO.
And before I am flamed, I do not, nor have I ever, worked or been associated with Ryanair other than as a fare paying pax 5 years ago.
So, how does this programme affect the lives of the professional pilots amongst us? Not one jot. If the pilots shown in this docu-soap are unhappy with their chosen employer, chose another one.
Anecodotal (and some supported) evidence from the pages of Pprune has brought to light various concerns regarding working practices at FR. This programme did little to validate these concerns IMHO.
And before I am flamed, I do not, nor have I ever, worked or been associated with Ryanair other than as a fare paying pax 5 years ago.
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Big Tudor you said that the programme said little to validate concerns voiced here on pprune. Wellllllllll .... I beg to differ. I saw clear references to people being afraid to voice their true opinions and to act as they should. Being uhappy with an employer is one thing - but being unhappy because your employment might under threat for acting properly is another. What about the reference to the demoted pilot? Did I miss something, or did you?
Alba Gu Brath
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No BBT, we both saw the same programme. By belief remains, if my employer holds me in such low esteem that they will threaten, or invoke, demotion as a result of me raising concerns, then I will seek alternative employment. Ryanair continues because of 2 criteria. Firstly because people continue to seek employment with them, and secondly because people continue to provide them with custom. Remove one or both of these criteria and Ryanair will cease to exist. HOWEVER. There are numerous people who will continue to offer their services to Ryanair, either as employees or as customers. This raises the point that either the working practices at Ryanair are inappropriate / unsafe in which case those employees that choose to reamin are condoning such practices OR the situation is vastly over-exaggerated to the point where it is becoming tiresome.
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But Big Tudor, it's not so simple to find any employer these days who isn't trying to copy FR's lead. So you're just likely to jump from the frying pan into the fire. And sometimes jumping ain't as simple as you seem to profess. There are training bonds, seniority loss, kids in school, wives with jobs, and family and friends....if you simply move to the company across the ramp - will they be any better? Have you read any of the EK threads lately? They're jumping ship there too, in what was once a plum job.
Maybe the smarter course of action is to stay and FIGHT for change.
Maybe the smarter course of action is to stay and FIGHT for change.
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Big Tudor have you not just described what has been called a catch 22 situation? Are you really declaring those in that situation to be guilty, rather than those who created the catch 22? If it is the former you should be in Ryanair management (or the IAA)!
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Idunno
Agree that many are trying to copy Ryanairs model (a pale imitation of the Southwest model at best), but not all successfully. BALPA et al do provide a degree of representation, even if it doesn't appear so at times. If things are as bad at FR as is being implied then surely anything is better? Guilt by association can be a bitter pill to swallow. And what cost would you put on professional (and personal) pride? Is seniority really more important than integrity?
Stay and fight? Whistle blowing can be a lonely (and career damaging) option. I'm sure we would all hold the Tolpuddle Martyrs in high esteem for their determination, however remember the words of the judge in his summing up of the trial. They were sentenced "not for what they had done, but as an example to others". Sound familiar?
Sorry, just saw BBTs post. It is only a catch 22 situation for so long. If you get into a car with a driver who is (unknown to you) drunk, you surely can't be held accountable. However, if you choose to remain in that car once the fact that he is drunk has become apparent to you then you are, by implication, condoning his actions.
Agree that many are trying to copy Ryanairs model (a pale imitation of the Southwest model at best), but not all successfully. BALPA et al do provide a degree of representation, even if it doesn't appear so at times. If things are as bad at FR as is being implied then surely anything is better? Guilt by association can be a bitter pill to swallow. And what cost would you put on professional (and personal) pride? Is seniority really more important than integrity?
Stay and fight? Whistle blowing can be a lonely (and career damaging) option. I'm sure we would all hold the Tolpuddle Martyrs in high esteem for their determination, however remember the words of the judge in his summing up of the trial. They were sentenced "not for what they had done, but as an example to others". Sound familiar?
Sorry, just saw BBTs post. It is only a catch 22 situation for so long. If you get into a car with a driver who is (unknown to you) drunk, you surely can't be held accountable. However, if you choose to remain in that car once the fact that he is drunk has become apparent to you then you are, by implication, condoning his actions.
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Dispatches
This month marks the 18th anniversary of my joining Ryanair.
The dogs in the street knew much of what was broadcast tonight.
Disembark 189 and board 189 and do a security and check passports all in 25 mins, you do the math as the Americans say.
The mantra since day 1 has been "the show must go on".
Feel tired? feel fatigued? Pull a stunt, cause a ripple to the operation and you will pay the ultimate sacrifice. This has been self evident since a co-pilot walked citing having been bullied and harrased in the cockpit on arrival in PIK, the flight was delayed and the co-pilot dismissed.
I'm glad I only work 18 hours a week, otherwise I might get tired.
The dogs in the street knew much of what was broadcast tonight.
Disembark 189 and board 189 and do a security and check passports all in 25 mins, you do the math as the Americans say.
The mantra since day 1 has been "the show must go on".
Feel tired? feel fatigued? Pull a stunt, cause a ripple to the operation and you will pay the ultimate sacrifice. This has been self evident since a co-pilot walked citing having been bullied and harrased in the cockpit on arrival in PIK, the flight was delayed and the co-pilot dismissed.
I'm glad I only work 18 hours a week, otherwise I might get tired.
I call you back
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Feel tired? feel fatigued? Pull a stunt, cause a ripple to the operation and you will pay the ultimate sacrifice. This has been self evident since a co-pilot walked citing having been bullied and harrased in the cockpit on arrival in PIK, the flight was delayed and the co-pilot dismissed.
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Do the viewing public actually believe that the problems depicted on the TV programme only apply to Ryanair?
Get real, people!
Every UK airline out there (with a few exceptions) is exactly the same (give or take the minor details)!
I've worked for enough UK companies and been in the industry for enough decades to be able to see the TV programme as nothing more than a summary of my daily experiences, none of them specific only to Ryanair!
It makes me angry to see one airline victimised in this way, when most of the others are just as bad!
Get real, people!
Every UK airline out there (with a few exceptions) is exactly the same (give or take the minor details)!
I've worked for enough UK companies and been in the industry for enough decades to be able to see the TV programme as nothing more than a summary of my daily experiences, none of them specific only to Ryanair!
It makes me angry to see one airline victimised in this way, when most of the others are just as bad!
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acbus1. I see we have moved from statements that "Ryanair is merely suffering from a small number of misguided malcontents who complain excessively" (the it's all nonsense claim) on to claims that Ryanair is no different from any other airline (the it happens everywhere claim).
It turns out that the documentary, which was rubbished extensively here in advance as being unreliable, is now being presented as the sole source of evidence about Ryanair and as supporting the notion that it shows Ryanair to be no different from other airlines. Get real.
You sir are wrong. "Every airline out there (with a few exeptions)" is NOT like Ryanair. Talk here is cheap and you get to express your opinions like everybody else, but ....... why don't you start by going to read up on the many posts with many very different stories posted here over the past couple of years. The evidence is there for those who want to look for it.
It turns out that the documentary, which was rubbished extensively here in advance as being unreliable, is now being presented as the sole source of evidence about Ryanair and as supporting the notion that it shows Ryanair to be no different from other airlines. Get real.
You sir are wrong. "Every airline out there (with a few exeptions)" is NOT like Ryanair. Talk here is cheap and you get to express your opinions like everybody else, but ....... why don't you start by going to read up on the many posts with many very different stories posted here over the past couple of years. The evidence is there for those who want to look for it.
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Well my earlier sentiments about C4 getting worried about legal action are most likely unfounded as this program turned out to be not much more than a bag of wind that Ryanair can ignore.
So they found cabin crew with temporary security passes - any other airlines out there guilty of stretching the regs on this?
And they found (oh my God we are all going to die) that passports were not always getting checked as pax boarded the a/c. Same question - any other airlines out there guilty - well every single one I have flown on over the last 2 years.
The rest, well I think it was a battle to fill out the remaining running time.
Hope it does not end up hurting those 2 pilots - whose only crime was having a bit of a bitch while stuck on the ramp for an extended delay while having to put up with some insulting passenger.
Maybe there is a lot more to find that would be interesting but they did not find it this time.
So they found cabin crew with temporary security passes - any other airlines out there guilty of stretching the regs on this?
And they found (oh my God we are all going to die) that passports were not always getting checked as pax boarded the a/c. Same question - any other airlines out there guilty - well every single one I have flown on over the last 2 years.
The rest, well I think it was a battle to fill out the remaining running time.
Hope it does not end up hurting those 2 pilots - whose only crime was having a bit of a bitch while stuck on the ramp for an extended delay while having to put up with some insulting passenger.
Maybe there is a lot more to find that would be interesting but they did not find it this time.
Disgusted!
I watched the program, and I have to say its vindicated my "I don't and wont fly Ryan air" approach (ever since an atco friend of mine clocked them doing 75kts on a taxi way!)
For those that say this shows that FR have the same problems as every other airline, STOP TALKING ****E In the airline I fly for we do it right every time! Because doing it right is the only way to ensure safety! yes we get tired, but we don't get sacked or demoted for saying enough.
While there was no "smoking gun" in the program that would put FR at risk of losing their AOC, the whole attitude of the staff and crew was slap dash at best, and dangerous at worst. What it tells me is that, if the **** hit the fan, I would not want to be on a Ryan air aircraft.
As for the captain that kept all those people on that aircraft for 3 hours and then went to Luton with out telling anyone: TW@T! You are supposed to be a "professional" aviator, and "professional" aviators don't behave in that way towards the people that pay our wages.
For those that say this shows that FR have the same problems as every other airline, STOP TALKING ****E In the airline I fly for we do it right every time! Because doing it right is the only way to ensure safety! yes we get tired, but we don't get sacked or demoted for saying enough.
While there was no "smoking gun" in the program that would put FR at risk of losing their AOC, the whole attitude of the staff and crew was slap dash at best, and dangerous at worst. What it tells me is that, if the **** hit the fan, I would not want to be on a Ryan air aircraft.
As for the captain that kept all those people on that aircraft for 3 hours and then went to Luton with out telling anyone: TW@T! You are supposed to be a "professional" aviator, and "professional" aviators don't behave in that way towards the people that pay our wages.
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Jonty
1. In the version of the program I viewed, the a/c did end up going to Stansted. Maybe you got the directors cut.
2. Quote "no smoking gun" = maybe "could do better" on the program makers part.
3. Quote "if the **** hit the fan, I would not want to be on a Ryan air aircraft". Depends on the sh!t my friend. As for the vomit, well I must agree
1. In the version of the program I viewed, the a/c did end up going to Stansted. Maybe you got the directors cut.
2. Quote "no smoking gun" = maybe "could do better" on the program makers part.
3. Quote "if the **** hit the fan, I would not want to be on a Ryan air aircraft". Depends on the sh!t my friend. As for the vomit, well I must agree
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Originally Posted by Jonty
I watched the program, and I have to say its vindicated my "I don't and wont fly Ryan air" approach (ever since an atco friend of mine clocked them doing 75kts on a taxi way!)
For those that say this shows that FR have the same problems as every other airline, STOP TALKING ****E In the airline I fly for we do it right every time! Because doing it right is the only way to ensure safety! yes we get tired, but we don't get sacked or demoted for saying enough.
While there was no "smoking gun" in the program that would put FR at risk of losing their AOC, the whole attitude of the staff and crew was slap dash at best, and dangerous at worst. What it tells me is that, if the **** hit the fan, I would not want to be on a Ryan air aircraft.
As for the captain that kept all those people on that aircraft for 3 hours and then went to Luton with out telling anyone: TW@T! You are supposed to be a "professional" aviator, and "professional" aviators don't behave in that way towards the people that pay our wages.
For those that say this shows that FR have the same problems as every other airline, STOP TALKING ****E In the airline I fly for we do it right every time! Because doing it right is the only way to ensure safety! yes we get tired, but we don't get sacked or demoted for saying enough.
While there was no "smoking gun" in the program that would put FR at risk of losing their AOC, the whole attitude of the staff and crew was slap dash at best, and dangerous at worst. What it tells me is that, if the **** hit the fan, I would not want to be on a Ryan air aircraft.
As for the captain that kept all those people on that aircraft for 3 hours and then went to Luton with out telling anyone: TW@T! You are supposed to be a "professional" aviator, and "professional" aviators don't behave in that way towards the people that pay our wages.
Originally Posted by RogerIrrelevant69
Jonty
1. In the version of the program I viewed, the a/c ended up going to Stansted.
1. In the version of the program I viewed, the a/c ended up going to Stansted.
What worries me the most is the management practices that allow this to go on. And the fact that the crew will be making safety related decisions based on trying to keep their jobs. What I saw in that program was a company that took safety as a lower priority to punctuality.
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acbus1 I'm going to have one more go and then give up. I will reword what I above said as follows
I am sure that you will appreciate that I am suggesting that the content of the posts, evidence from the press, recent incident reports, etc. are materially different in Ryanair's case. That is not to say that some similar events do not occur in other airlines from time to time, but it is to say that there is a very definite Ryanair pattern that is not repeated at other airlines. Some of the threads are very revealing - you might try reading them before making any more confident pronouncements.
why don't you start by going to read up on the content of the many posts with many very different stories posted here over the past couple of years. The evidence is there for those who want to look for it.
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In the airline I fly for we do it right every time! Because doing it right is the only way to ensure safety! yes we get tired, but we don't get sacked or demoted for saying enough.
757 pilot.
Based London.
Bet you can guess the Airline!
Your airline (if I've deduced correctly, of course) was one of the exceptions I had in mind, when I stated "Every UK airline out there (with a few exceptions) is exactly the same....."
Lets hope they don't join the also-rans, in terms of standards, when the lo-cost operation is up to speed.