Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Handflying, you are blaming pilots who are willing to work until 65 for bad planning of their economies. Likewise, a kid whose famlily has paid 100K for the said kid's ATPL, is guilty of bad choice of career, if he can't find a job as pilot. 911 or not, there still are a lot more job opportunities for pilots today than there were decades ago. That is, if you are willing to start from bottom and work your way up.
65 is indeed a magical number, because in several countries that is the age when you are entitled to be paid a pension. Unless you have made financial arrangements of your own, you'll get nothing between the time you choose to quit and the day you reach that magical age. Several reasons for not being able to make those arrangenments have been given on this thread already, many or most of them beyond the individual's own control.
Dani, I don't imply that I am myself able to decide that I'm good enough for my job. That is exactly why we have medical checks, sim checks, line checks etc. I for one do not have a buddy to chat with as a doctor. And you say "if it goes up to 65". FYI it already has gone up there, at least in most of the JAA world, so you are too late.
Again: how could it be anybody else's business when an individual decides to quit? Just wait, young fellows, you'll be 40, 50 and 60 sooner than you realise.
65 is indeed a magical number, because in several countries that is the age when you are entitled to be paid a pension. Unless you have made financial arrangements of your own, you'll get nothing between the time you choose to quit and the day you reach that magical age. Several reasons for not being able to make those arrangenments have been given on this thread already, many or most of them beyond the individual's own control.
Dani, I don't imply that I am myself able to decide that I'm good enough for my job. That is exactly why we have medical checks, sim checks, line checks etc. I for one do not have a buddy to chat with as a doctor. And you say "if it goes up to 65". FYI it already has gone up there, at least in most of the JAA world, so you are too late.
Again: how could it be anybody else's business when an individual decides to quit? Just wait, young fellows, you'll be 40, 50 and 60 sooner than you realise.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
There was some talk about 3 years ago whether the FAA was extending the retiring age past 60. I wrote to FAA HQ in Oklahoma City and asked what the story was. The answer I got was an absolute and emphatic-no.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Why all this fuss over the age of the pilot, surely the question is whether we need pilots at all? 
Since the technology is already available to fly from A to B totally automatically (or even the planets for that matter), the age of the man watching the lights flash is really of no consequence, if he falls asleep or dies, the automation is going to do the job anyway.
The new job market is in computer minders,- you are all already 5 years behind the new trend, pilots are irrelevant.
Since the technology is already available to fly from A to B totally automatically (or even the planets for that matter), the age of the man watching the lights flash is really of no consequence, if he falls asleep or dies, the automation is going to do the job anyway.
The new job market is in computer minders,- you are all already 5 years behind the new trend, pilots are irrelevant.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
ZQA......me thinks u've been spending too many hours doing the boeing flight simulator on ur PC.Now give ur ass a rest and smell the roses.This is the REAL world my friend and not your home puter where u can "reset" everytime things get outta control!! As long as theres flying machines....theres gonna be the boys who fly em.And THATS here to stay my friend.Moreso......those boys can now be 65......
. Cheers matey......
. Cheers matey......
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Are there really still people like that? Just watched the Sioux City DC10 on TV, one of the most desperate and heroic human aviation acts ever. The numerous other times a year when systems break down and people survive because humans take over.......ZQA....just shut up!
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
All you guys planning to fly to ripe old age need to bear in mind your mortality. Some of the guys I've known haven't made it to 65.
You fall over dead or acquire a terminal disease and not long after they put you in a wooden box.
Some workshy opportunist moves in with your Mrs. because she's lonely and not long after that he's helping himself to your hard earned bank balance. The kids are extolling your virtues and telling each other what a great late dad you were as they're on their way to the nearest Jaguar dealership.
A little fanciful maybe, but I'm sure you get the message.
You fall over dead or acquire a terminal disease and not long after they put you in a wooden box.
Some workshy opportunist moves in with your Mrs. because she's lonely and not long after that he's helping himself to your hard earned bank balance. The kids are extolling your virtues and telling each other what a great late dad you were as they're on their way to the nearest Jaguar dealership.
A little fanciful maybe, but I'm sure you get the message.
(Russian Gynegology)
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Now you start to approach the real reasons. That's why we need to keep working!
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Skol, in my casual observation, admittedly only a relatively small group averaging about 200 pilots and by no means scientific, there have been noticeably more "sudden" licence losses in the under 50 age group than there have been in the over 50 age group. The over 50 group has had several instances of cancers, but not much else.
The under 50s had 3 fatal heart attacks, a quad bypass, a cancer, 2 diabeties, and a couple of miscellaneous (eg psychological, and neurological). I exclude loss of licence/life due to motor accidents.
My rather unscientific conclusion was that by the time you are 50 you have survived to a point where gradual decline is more likely to take you out than a sudden event.
As someone else said, this discussion is not really about age and ability but promotion/dollars and the "right" to rapid progress to left seat.
I am wondering whether corporations can now expect pressure on CEOs to move out, because many of the upwardly mobile execs are finding their upward progress is too slow?
The under 50s had 3 fatal heart attacks, a quad bypass, a cancer, 2 diabeties, and a couple of miscellaneous (eg psychological, and neurological). I exclude loss of licence/life due to motor accidents.
My rather unscientific conclusion was that by the time you are 50 you have survived to a point where gradual decline is more likely to take you out than a sudden event.
As someone else said, this discussion is not really about age and ability but promotion/dollars and the "right" to rapid progress to left seat.
I am wondering whether corporations can now expect pressure on CEOs to move out, because many of the upwardly mobile execs are finding their upward progress is too slow?
Plumbum Pendular
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I am wondering whether corporations can now expect pressure on CEOs to move out, because many of the upwardly mobile execs are finding their upward progress is too slow?
And many people go on flying (often in the RHS) not because they need the money but simply because they want to, and that is their given right to do so.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Fmgc,
These kind of "birthright chargers" already changed the aviation for ever by putting airlines out of business through their unions. Now when the low cost operators took over they need to attact them about their policies. This 60/65 doesn't change anything but gives a good chance for them to make a lot of noise and confusion, again.
Maybe next their will demand that every man and women must be able to fly as captain 2-3 years if they so demand and then start to receive unemployment benefits for the rest of their life.
Well, I go sailing!
These kind of "birthright chargers" already changed the aviation for ever by putting airlines out of business through their unions. Now when the low cost operators took over they need to attact them about their policies. This 60/65 doesn't change anything but gives a good chance for them to make a lot of noise and confusion, again.
Maybe next their will demand that every man and women must be able to fly as captain 2-3 years if they so demand and then start to receive unemployment benefits for the rest of their life.
Well, I go sailing!
Bottums Up
Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I'm stunned at how many people presume that they can tell another when and why they should retire, or, how they should have managed their financial life, or, cast wild assertions as to why some one wants to work beyon a given age and then offer criticism of that person's reasons.
Why I want to work as long as I can is my business and no one has the right to judge my reason. Similarly I won't judge their reasons for their choices or desires.
On the other hand, if people like ANGELOPINTO, or anyone over 25 were to retire now, it would allow aspiring student pilots to break into the industry. Perhaps they should do that!
Why I want to work as long as I can is my business and no one has the right to judge my reason. Similarly I won't judge their reasons for their choices or desires.
On the other hand, if people like ANGELOPINTO, or anyone over 25 were to retire now, it would allow aspiring student pilots to break into the industry. Perhaps they should do that!
Left Seat 747
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Who promised you a left seat anyway?
It is interesting that many young stallions on this thread seem to feel they deserve command simply because they have chosen flying as a profession. They are the ones who want the more experienced guys to be dismissed so they can advance to the left seat. They feel they "deserve" it.
We started this profession to be a PILOT. If you are a pilot, congratulations. If you work hard, pay attention, show wisdom and maturity, then you might have an opportunity to fly in the left seat - not because someone more qualified and experienced than you has been forced to retire by an age limit.
By the way, I am 62 and flying left seat on a Jumbo. I am at top of my game in the airplane. I am having a blast, love doing it, and by God I earned it after more than 40 years of study, passing checks, and staying fit. You want me to retire after all that time and effort because you "deserve" to have my job? How long have YOU been paying your dues? Five or ten years?
Baloney!
We started this profession to be a PILOT. If you are a pilot, congratulations. If you work hard, pay attention, show wisdom and maturity, then you might have an opportunity to fly in the left seat - not because someone more qualified and experienced than you has been forced to retire by an age limit.
By the way, I am 62 and flying left seat on a Jumbo. I am at top of my game in the airplane. I am having a blast, love doing it, and by God I earned it after more than 40 years of study, passing checks, and staying fit. You want me to retire after all that time and effort because you "deserve" to have my job? How long have YOU been paying your dues? Five or ten years?
Baloney!
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Flying Guy,
How do you occupy the LHS over 60 in US airspace?
As I mentioned in one of my previous post I have flown with a couple of elderly gentlemen who I am sure are in the early stages of senility. On one of my recent medicals I asked the doctor how they are going to cope with elderly pilots and detect mental deterioration for example. I was told that he had no way of detecting it in a short space of a medical and basically it was up to me to report it.
Lucky me.
How do you occupy the LHS over 60 in US airspace?
As I mentioned in one of my previous post I have flown with a couple of elderly gentlemen who I am sure are in the early stages of senility. On one of my recent medicals I asked the doctor how they are going to cope with elderly pilots and detect mental deterioration for example. I was told that he had no way of detecting it in a short space of a medical and basically it was up to me to report it.
Lucky me.
Last edited by skol; 10th Jan 2006 at 03:04. Reason: Addition
Left Seat 747
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Dear Skol,
I fly overseas, not in the USA. Hopefully the USA will come in line with the rest of the world and raise the age there to 65. Regards the "early stages of senility," I am not a Doctor and I assume, nor are you. I have seen a lot of beginning FO's though that have a hard time remembering and reading back a complicated clearance in a busy environment like Amsterdam or Frankfurt, (as did I when I was at that stage of flying.)
Now then err..., what were we talking about??????
I fly overseas, not in the USA. Hopefully the USA will come in line with the rest of the world and raise the age there to 65. Regards the "early stages of senility," I am not a Doctor and I assume, nor are you. I have seen a lot of beginning FO's though that have a hard time remembering and reading back a complicated clearance in a busy environment like Amsterdam or Frankfurt, (as did I when I was at that stage of flying.)
Now then err..., what were we talking about??????
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Angelo Pinto,
I am baffled!
So, in your opinion your job has been robbed by “old pilots” insisting to work until 65.
And they should be forced to retire to give place for people like you to take place.
I wish to work until 65, firstly because I need to work until this age as a professional pilot.
And more, I do intend to still flying even after the retirement age, and the main reason is that I do love to fly; I dedicated my entire life to be near airplanes.
It is sad if you have a license to fly , because it is required a lot more to place airplanes in the sky full of people, it requires integrity and honesty!
The Professional Pilot profession it is suffering the effects of “grabbers and opportunists” like you who the only think they wish is to fill their pockets and ego.
Mercurius
I am baffled!
So, in your opinion your job has been robbed by “old pilots” insisting to work until 65.
And they should be forced to retire to give place for people like you to take place.
I wish to work until 65, firstly because I need to work until this age as a professional pilot.
And more, I do intend to still flying even after the retirement age, and the main reason is that I do love to fly; I dedicated my entire life to be near airplanes.
It is sad if you have a license to fly , because it is required a lot more to place airplanes in the sky full of people, it requires integrity and honesty!
The Professional Pilot profession it is suffering the effects of “grabbers and opportunists” like you who the only think they wish is to fill their pockets and ego.
Mercurius
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Well said Capt Claret and Flying Guy! What these people are missing the point of is it's going to become their right,by law. They won't have to make excuses to keep working. It's nothing to do with bad pensions/bad marriages/bad investment, it's a legal age thing which will apply to everybody. Premature retirement is not going to be forced on people for age reasons, and it will quite rightly be legal. Funny how pilots are supposed to go senile over 60, yet surgeons, lawyers etc are at their peak then!
I agree with the point that if some of these aspiring wannabees would 'retire' from the professsion before wasting all that expense getting started, it would certainly ease up the pressure on their juniors following! The senior experienced people would then be able to give the job the benefit of their experience!
I agree with the point that if some of these aspiring wannabees would 'retire' from the professsion before wasting all that expense getting started, it would certainly ease up the pressure on their juniors following! The senior experienced people would then be able to give the job the benefit of their experience!
Last edited by Rainboe; 10th Jan 2006 at 10:45.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Flying Guy,
I'll fly with you any day.
There's an old saying:
there are old pilots,
there are bold pilots,
but there are very few old, bold pilots.
The wisdom being that some of the boldies should learn from some of the oldies. A bit more wisdom in the skies? Can't see the problem.
I'll fly with you any day.
There's an old saying:
there are old pilots,
there are bold pilots,
but there are very few old, bold pilots.
The wisdom being that some of the boldies should learn from some of the oldies. A bit more wisdom in the skies? Can't see the problem.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Why not till the medical bods say "no more" I wonder how many would have made it to the late [sadly missed] Ray Hanna's 77 years and still flying single seat Warbirds?
Met a BA retiree recently, who is in his 60th year, ex 747-400 Senior Captain who claimed he had no money and a small pension to live on! Is
that really true or a smokescreen for the ex-wife?
Life's a bitch and then you die!
Aviate 1138
"I spend my money on aircraft, cars, booze and women - the rest I just waste."
Met a BA retiree recently, who is in his 60th year, ex 747-400 Senior Captain who claimed he had no money and a small pension to live on! Is
that really true or a smokescreen for the ex-wife?
Life's a bitch and then you die!
Aviate 1138
"I spend my money on aircraft, cars, booze and women - the rest I just waste."
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I am not a professional pilot but a PPL. However I am well over 65 and have only just decided to stop running my own business (sold it) and am now being called on for consultancy work. Also married again 3 years ago and nothing amiss in that department (maybe to the surprise of the youngsters )
It's not about age, it's about ability - we all vary in our capabilities and abilities. The decision when we stop should be made, iether by ourselves or by experts (medics etc.) based on that.
People get 'old' at different ages
) It's not about age, it's about ability - we all vary in our capabilities and abilities. The decision when we stop should be made, iether by ourselves or by experts (medics etc.) based on that.
People get 'old' at different ages