Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
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Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
THERE IS AN ONGOING LAW PROJECT IN JAA WORLD TO LET PILOT WORK UNTIL 65 YEARS OLD INSTEAD OF 60. THIS WILL MEAN DELAYING 5 MORE YEARS NEW PILOT JOBS DUE TO THOSE PILOTS WHO WHOLD RETIRE NOW AND SO ON EVERY YEAR WHEN THEY REACH 60.
CAN ANYBODY HELP IN WRITING A NICE LETTER TO BE SENT TO JAA head quarter and all european CAA and all european government, a nice letter about young unemployed people, who could start work, and about old people who already has hadd all the satisfaction possible from commercial aviation and most of them , by the way , are tired and are looking forward to retire.
I wil give it a try and pass it on to everybody, but i am not good in writing this kind of letters. The letter must be well written and polite and i believe that if those ADMINISTRATIONS will receive thousand of copies of the same letter signed by so many young pilot, they might stop doing this crap.
I am positive that labour and left side political parties, if they will heard our point of view will understand better the problem and defend the right of a young person to find a job in what he has been studying with so much sacrifice. If somebody comes up with a nice letter please post it here and then everybody e-mail to those administration.
Also we need help in finding all the relevant email addresses who could help and who will decide about this law.
CAN ANYBODY HELP IN WRITING A NICE LETTER TO BE SENT TO JAA head quarter and all european CAA and all european government, a nice letter about young unemployed people, who could start work, and about old people who already has hadd all the satisfaction possible from commercial aviation and most of them , by the way , are tired and are looking forward to retire.
I wil give it a try and pass it on to everybody, but i am not good in writing this kind of letters. The letter must be well written and polite and i believe that if those ADMINISTRATIONS will receive thousand of copies of the same letter signed by so many young pilot, they might stop doing this crap.
I am positive that labour and left side political parties, if they will heard our point of view will understand better the problem and defend the right of a young person to find a job in what he has been studying with so much sacrifice. If somebody comes up with a nice letter please post it here and then everybody e-mail to those administration.
Also we need help in finding all the relevant email addresses who could help and who will decide about this law.
Warning Toxic!
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
So let me get this right. You want your 'young people' to not be affected by new age discrimination laws, but then they will be able to hold a pilots licence until 65 if they want so they would benefit from the laws? I see.
What exactly do you think age discrimination laws are being introduced for? It's not hard this one- it's to prevent age discrimination! Therefore what you want is to discriminate in pilot employment in particular so that pilots aged over 55 or 60 and under 65 are discriminated against.
I think my head hurts.
What exactly do you think age discrimination laws are being introduced for? It's not hard this one- it's to prevent age discrimination! Therefore what you want is to discriminate in pilot employment in particular so that pilots aged over 55 or 60 and under 65 are discriminated against.
I think my head hurts.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
The chief flying instructor at my club has recently retired at age 80. His predecessor retired when forced to do so at about 75 by the advancement of terminal cancer. In his case, having lost his medical, he continued flying with qualified pilots in an advisory capacity as long as he possibly could.
These people were enthusiasts with thousands upon thousands of hours of instructional experience which they were happy to pass on as long as they were physically capable. I have no intention of taking any action which could help to persuade any regulatory body to prevent such people from flying. There is a shortage of good (fixed wing) instructors. This is because that the current economic situation enables FTO's to pay them peanuts. In the future this situation may change and the private flying movement may well be grateful for any good instructors that it can get irrespective of age, provided of course that they meet the necessary medical criteria.
P.P.
These people were enthusiasts with thousands upon thousands of hours of instructional experience which they were happy to pass on as long as they were physically capable. I have no intention of taking any action which could help to persuade any regulatory body to prevent such people from flying. There is a shortage of good (fixed wing) instructors. This is because that the current economic situation enables FTO's to pay them peanuts. In the future this situation may change and the private flying movement may well be grateful for any good instructors that it can get irrespective of age, provided of course that they meet the necessary medical criteria.
P.P.
Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
)to get a half decent pension these days
Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I am not a professional pilot but I have several friends who are, and who are over 60. None of them qualify for a sensible pension for various reasons e.g. one didn't get his ATPL until he was 50. They will not get their state pension until they are 65 and cannot afford to stop working until then.
As the retirement age to state pension is going to be increased over the coming years I think it is appalling that anyone should be deprived of the right to earn their living using the only skill they have. As far as I can see, not all professional pilots work for large airlines with pension schemes which are calculated on them retiring before they are 60.
As the retirement age to state pension is going to be increased over the coming years I think it is appalling that anyone should be deprived of the right to earn their living using the only skill they have. As far as I can see, not all professional pilots work for large airlines with pension schemes which are calculated on them retiring before they are 60.
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Angelopinto, I think you might have missed out on some crucial detail here...
Today, many pilots are already working to the age of 65 - only they move from the left seat back to the right. A few good mates of mine are about to take that step soon - but they're not gonna retire, just because they hit 60!
So - what you call "crap" is not gonna take away a lot of jobs for low-hour guys overnight. Already today, there are a lot of jobs available for the guys with experience-levels commensurate with being close to 60, but not that many for low-houred pilots. Passing this law might actually help the industry to take up some of the slack of recruitment for low-hourered pilots. Look to FR - they are desperate for trainers, so the prospect of keeping them on as trainers for another 5 years is sweet music to Ryanair. If they are forced to retire, the availability of trainers (or lack thereoff) will only perpetuate the current situation where people wait for months to start their linetraining (the consequences of this are dealt with at length in other threads on this forum).
This step is only partly fuelled by union demand - the industry movers & shakers have a lot more to do with it. They need pilots, and they need them fast. If, however, a new downturn hits before the law is passed, it'll probably be put on ice until the next upturn is at hand. Sorry if that sounds a bit hard - but that's the industry for you
So - my two eurocents worth: don't take this fight. It's gonna happen, no matter how many letters are sent to the EU Parliament, and it does not endear you to the people who now have a shot at retaining their command for another 5 years, doing a job that many of them love (or at least keeps them in beer money). If you want to fight a just cause, join the MAF and help spread education & healthcare in the third world, or work for Amnesty or the Red Cross, don't chase laws that will ultimately benefit the aviation industry.
Empty
Today, many pilots are already working to the age of 65 - only they move from the left seat back to the right. A few good mates of mine are about to take that step soon - but they're not gonna retire, just because they hit 60!
So - what you call "crap" is not gonna take away a lot of jobs for low-hour guys overnight. Already today, there are a lot of jobs available for the guys with experience-levels commensurate with being close to 60, but not that many for low-houred pilots. Passing this law might actually help the industry to take up some of the slack of recruitment for low-hourered pilots. Look to FR - they are desperate for trainers, so the prospect of keeping them on as trainers for another 5 years is sweet music to Ryanair. If they are forced to retire, the availability of trainers (or lack thereoff) will only perpetuate the current situation where people wait for months to start their linetraining (the consequences of this are dealt with at length in other threads on this forum).
This step is only partly fuelled by union demand - the industry movers & shakers have a lot more to do with it. They need pilots, and they need them fast. If, however, a new downturn hits before the law is passed, it'll probably be put on ice until the next upturn is at hand. Sorry if that sounds a bit hard - but that's the industry for you
So - my two eurocents worth: don't take this fight. It's gonna happen, no matter how many letters are sent to the EU Parliament, and it does not endear you to the people who now have a shot at retaining their command for another 5 years, doing a job that many of them love (or at least keeps them in beer money). If you want to fight a just cause, join the MAF and help spread education & healthcare in the third world, or work for Amnesty or the Red Cross, don't chase laws that will ultimately benefit the aviation industry.
Empty
Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Bollocks. The big economic question in most of the developed world is that fertility rates are low and life expectancy is going up - and you want to stop people working longer?
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Agelopinto:- Exactly what will you be your offering employers? Your lack of experience? Your skill at flying? Your ability to really hack your older colleagues off? Or is it the way that your incisive brain cuts through the many facets of an argument and then comes to a hypocritical conclusion? Maybe the reason you don't have a job is because you are a plonker?
The old wrinklies are the people who, despite the numerous and varied attempts by incredibly qualified youngsters (and we haven't talked about those made by weather, passengers, ATC, engineering, management, etc.) to kill them, are still alive. There's alot to be learnt from them - ignore them at your peril! And if they want to work, let them.
The old wrinklies are the people who, despite the numerous and varied attempts by incredibly qualified youngsters (and we haven't talked about those made by weather, passengers, ATC, engineering, management, etc.) to kill them, are still alive. There's alot to be learnt from them - ignore them at your peril! And if they want to work, let them.
Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I recently attended a briefing by the chairman of the ICAO committee who recommended the increase in retirement age to 65. I can assure you that no amount of letter writting is going to change the fact that in November of this year all member states will have to adopt the 65 retirement age rule. Of course individual companies in these states can impose a lower limit if they so desire but countries such as France will no longer be able to block over 60's from overflying or operating into French airports.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
old wrinklies !!!???
Speak for yerself mate.
Speak for yerself mate.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
If pilots can stay healthy longer now than they did in the past (better healthcare, knowledge of diet/exercising etc), then they should be allowed to work longer if they so desire. Thats the way I see it anyway (and FWIW Im only 26).
Don't forget we all get old eventually-do you want to be sent home for it?
edited for spelling.
Don't forget we all get old eventually-do you want to be sent home for it?
edited for spelling.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Age 60 rule in the States may be changed by Congress this session. I believe the rationale is to bring us up to ICAO standards. The original reason for the age 60 rule in the states was CR Smith of American Airlines getting his good buddy the head of the FAA to impose an age limit to rid his airline of the top captains who were the highest paid. There was some discussion by the FAA saying that these captains were having difficulties adjusting to the new jets in their transition from DC 6/7 and Connies. Most of the reasons cited were not true but that didn't stop the FAA from enacting the Age 60 rule. F/Os everywhere cheered, until they got to age 59 and then they demanded the rule be changed.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I fly longhaul with over 60 f/o's and it's often not a pretty sight. Many of these guys are there for the ride and the others are doing the work.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
ANGELOPINTO,
How old are you?
What will you think of your law to force pilots out of work when they've accuumulated the hours that you in your youthfullness have deemed is enough, when you get to be 60?
You say, they will "defend the right of a young person to find a job in what he has been studying with so much sacrifice." How do you think I got my job? Do you presume that I have not made any sacrifice for it?
I note that your profile indicates that you're current on the B737. One of my sacrifices was to take 16 years from the time I obtained a CPL to be presented with the opportunity of my first jet endorsement. How many years have you waited?
I have just spent AUD$15k for my share of a B717 endorsement. I could have chosen unemployment instead of accepting the cost but I'm not about to retire quickly just to let some youngster be given a job that they want, but that I have worked very hard for, just because they believe that they are entitled to it.
The world is full of older pilots like me. Some would retire tomorrow if they could afford to. Others, don't want to retire until they get to the point when they're not really up to the job. I'm in the latter category and hope that I recognise the time to go before some one says I'm no longer making the grade, however, I'll not be pushed aside by the young turks!
Cappice?
How old are you?
What will you think of your law to force pilots out of work when they've accuumulated the hours that you in your youthfullness have deemed is enough, when you get to be 60?
You say, they will "defend the right of a young person to find a job in what he has been studying with so much sacrifice." How do you think I got my job? Do you presume that I have not made any sacrifice for it?
I note that your profile indicates that you're current on the B737. One of my sacrifices was to take 16 years from the time I obtained a CPL to be presented with the opportunity of my first jet endorsement. How many years have you waited?
I have just spent AUD$15k for my share of a B717 endorsement. I could have chosen unemployment instead of accepting the cost but I'm not about to retire quickly just to let some youngster be given a job that they want, but that I have worked very hard for, just because they believe that they are entitled to it.
The world is full of older pilots like me. Some would retire tomorrow if they could afford to. Others, don't want to retire until they get to the point when they're not really up to the job. I'm in the latter category and hope that I recognise the time to go before some one says I'm no longer making the grade, however, I'll not be pushed aside by the young turks!
Cappice?
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Claret,
As you get to the stage where you no longer make the grade it is incumbent on others to help you out. Sim instructors and checkers defer to older pilots and their peers are reluctant to fail, relying on line pilots to do the dirty work for them. No one wants to become involved and the standards go downhill.
As you get to the stage where you no longer make the grade it is incumbent on others to help you out. Sim instructors and checkers defer to older pilots and their peers are reluctant to fail, relying on line pilots to do the dirty work for them. No one wants to become involved and the standards go downhill.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Problem is Skol, at many companies, younger First Officers are there just warming the seat, as they are (brain-wise) out to lunch.
Sometimes it's just a plain and simple...'I'm bored with the job, and oh by the way, when is my next day off.'
Several others have recently (or perhaps, long ago) failed their upgrade assessment, and now are bitter at being left behind.
Well, it's their own damn fault, and they have only themselves to blame...and absolutely, positively no sympathy from me, period.
At our company, we have a couple of over 60 Captains and First Officers, and they can outperform the younger guys any day of the week.
Them's are the facts, Bubba, like it or not.
Sometimes it's just a plain and simple...'I'm bored with the job, and oh by the way, when is my next day off.'
Several others have recently (or perhaps, long ago) failed their upgrade assessment, and now are bitter at being left behind.
Well, it's their own damn fault, and they have only themselves to blame...and absolutely, positively no sympathy from me, period.
At our company, we have a couple of over 60 Captains and First Officers, and they can outperform the younger guys any day of the week.
Them's are the facts, Bubba, like it or not.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
In India airline flying has been cleared for pilots to the age of 65. Only restriction is 2 over 60s cannot fly together. Also there is some increase in medical requirements. All private airlines have accepted this. The government airlines are sitting on it coz of some people like the starter of this thread.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I was outraged when I looked at the first post on this thread but guys your replys are first class and have said all that I would have wanted to.
Say NO to age discrimination !
Say NO to age discrimination !
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I am p*ss*d of to the back teeth with young whippersnappers wanting my job before I am finished with it. I'll decide when I retire, Angelopinto, unless the licensing authority decides for me beforehand. It's a tough world for us all. Get used to it.