Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Capt. Airclues - It may be 65 now but I can assure you that it was dropped to 60 sometime in the seventies and stayed there for a very long time. If the age is now 65 then only in fairly recent years have you been allowed to command a British registered aircraft above a fairly low weight, around 20,000kgs I think.
(Russian Gynegology)
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Dear Skol,
It looks like you miss the point. If the retirement age is 65 that will be the age when one can start to receive pension. Not 5 years earlier. Your list of reasons has nothing to do with facts. In case you know how to receive the pension few years early please let us know.
It looks like you miss the point. If the retirement age is 65 that will be the age when one can start to receive pension. Not 5 years earlier. Your list of reasons has nothing to do with facts. In case you know how to receive the pension few years early please let us know.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Spot on skoll!!
Kopeloi:did you just now manage to count your money (with calculator) and found out you are short of it for another second residence (in which country=where is your mistress?)
Kopeloi:did you just now manage to count your money (with calculator) and found out you are short of it for another second residence (in which country=where is your mistress?)
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Handflying, you are still missing the point. Whether I, Kopeloi or whoever else wants to keep flying until 65, it is none of anybody elses business. This is life, not a charity. We all have different reasons to choose to fly until 65, or retire at 52, if we so desire. If I want to have that second Ferrari it is something I'm entitled to, assuming I'm medically fit and pass the checkrides.
And yes, I was young and eager once, could not wait for the first proper job and did pay my dues. Today there are much much more jobs available for pilots than there were thirty or forty years ago.
And yes, I was young and eager once, could not wait for the first proper job and did pay my dues. Today there are much much more jobs available for pilots than there were thirty or forty years ago.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
some little joker with a 'Frozen' ATPL ]
Alot of us jokers just like flying, and as stated before, dont want to do it for the money. The money is a by-product of doing what we want to do. Just remember that you one day started out as a joker.
Lay-off with the insults mate, alot of us agree with you.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
And yes, I was young and eager once, could not wait for the first proper job and did pay my dues. Today there are much much more jobs available for pilots than there were thirty or forty years ago.[/QUOTE]
Finn:
Just recognize (and it doesn't require a lot of common sense) that aviation has gone downhill and if you want to make career it is more difficult for many reasons: majors have gone bankrupt , 9/11, oil prices, you name it.
Yes you still can make career if you are ready to live in a suitcase or expatriate yourself for the rest of your life...well that is just what I would like future generations to avoid. I am sure most old guys made career in their own country and remained in the same company for 20 years. Nowadays it is luxury!!! And life suffers from it. I'd like to revert to the old situation even regardless of money!! That's why I am against flying till 65 even if I can't avoid you from doing it and yes IT'S YOUR RIGHT!!
Agree with stue "money is by-product of what we want to do".
Finn:
Just recognize (and it doesn't require a lot of common sense) that aviation has gone downhill and if you want to make career it is more difficult for many reasons: majors have gone bankrupt , 9/11, oil prices, you name it.
Yes you still can make career if you are ready to live in a suitcase or expatriate yourself for the rest of your life...well that is just what I would like future generations to avoid. I am sure most old guys made career in their own country and remained in the same company for 20 years. Nowadays it is luxury!!! And life suffers from it. I'd like to revert to the old situation even regardless of money!! That's why I am against flying till 65 even if I can't avoid you from doing it and yes IT'S YOUR RIGHT!!
Agree with stue "money is by-product of what we want to do".
(Russian Gynegology)
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Handflying,
Just for your info, I have been flying and living out of my suitcase last 30 years as there was no jobs in my own country in that very time. Good luck for you and your colleagues and I hope that you will be able to live in your own home and work in a steady company. I wasn't lucky enough and therefore need to keep working on for my pension scheme. Would you really like to change seats with me?
Just for your info, I have been flying and living out of my suitcase last 30 years as there was no jobs in my own country in that very time. Good luck for you and your colleagues and I hope that you will be able to live in your own home and work in a steady company. I wasn't lucky enough and therefore need to keep working on for my pension scheme. Would you really like to change seats with me?
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I am not working in my country but in a "steady" company now (for what it's worth nowadays) and in the last 5 years I have been travelling allover to keep my job. As 60 is still the rule so far that's where I am planning to (financially wise).
I can't leave a tear for guys who have been working in a decent company or a major for the last 30 years and not having been able to save, plan to retire at 60 regardless of how many children, wives etc. they have. Sorry if your planning didn't work out the way you wanted, but 60 it was and has almost allways been.
Why would the rules need to be changed right now? Who are the greedy selfish people here, the senior cpts or the junior f/o's?
Aviation safety can go without 60+ers.
I can't leave a tear for guys who have been working in a decent company or a major for the last 30 years and not having been able to save, plan to retire at 60 regardless of how many children, wives etc. they have. Sorry if your planning didn't work out the way you wanted, but 60 it was and has almost allways been.
Why would the rules need to be changed right now? Who are the greedy selfish people here, the senior cpts or the junior f/o's?
Aviation safety can go without 60+ers.
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
For every lucky pilot who flew a wide-body for a major and retired with a six-figure pension that is still secure, saving a couple million along the way, there are a hundred who didn't step right into the premier job but have had their employers go belly-up, lost their pension, lost half or more of their savings in divorces, lost their medical, etc. etc.
If a crew member falls asleep while in the seat without coordinating with the other crewmember(s), that is a serious deficiency at any age and should be roundly debriefed and, if necessary, reported and documented for possible further action.
But the above are all chaff regarding the Age 60 rule. Basic principles of freedom and anti-discrimination, if applied, would return a rule which stated: Any pilot may operate so long as that pilot is able to maintain proficiency and successfully undergo required periodic physical evaluations. Period.
If your position on this issue is determined by how old you are or how you would personally benefit or be hurt by a rule change, then you should recuse yourself from the debate as you cannot be objective.
Good discussion, everyone.
Cheers,
If a crew member falls asleep while in the seat without coordinating with the other crewmember(s), that is a serious deficiency at any age and should be roundly debriefed and, if necessary, reported and documented for possible further action.
But the above are all chaff regarding the Age 60 rule. Basic principles of freedom and anti-discrimination, if applied, would return a rule which stated: Any pilot may operate so long as that pilot is able to maintain proficiency and successfully undergo required periodic physical evaluations. Period.
If your position on this issue is determined by how old you are or how you would personally benefit or be hurt by a rule change, then you should recuse yourself from the debate as you cannot be objective.
Good discussion, everyone.
Cheers,
Dog Tired
Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
"If your position on this issue is determined by how old you are or how you would personally benefit or be hurt by a rule change, then you should recuse yourself from the debate as you cannot be objective."
well that doesn't leave anyone else.
well that doesn't leave anyone else.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Originally Posted by BenThere
, if applied, would return a rule which stated: Any pilot may operate so long as that pilot is able to maintain proficiency and successfully undergo required periodic physical evaluations. Period.
Bollocks gents, if you want to fly longer than you planned, you either a.)screwed up your planning, or b.) didn't know how to plan in the first place. in either case, don't make your problems ours. Retire while you can still stay awake and remember your licence number at best.
Dog Tired
Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
I just cannot resist a bit of bait...
"Bollocks gents, if you want to fly longer than you planned, you either a.)screwed up your planning, or b.) didn't know how to plan in the first place. in either case, don't make your problems ours. Retire while you can still stay awake and remember your licence number at best."
"gents" ? what would the Ladies say?
as for a) or b), the rules have just changed sunshine. now they have changed, it seems to me that a) or b) apply to you!
I look forward to discussing this matter traversing the pond with you until about October 2010. welcome to the real world.
"Bollocks gents, if you want to fly longer than you planned, you either a.)screwed up your planning, or b.) didn't know how to plan in the first place. in either case, don't make your problems ours. Retire while you can still stay awake and remember your licence number at best."
"gents" ? what would the Ladies say?
as for a) or b), the rules have just changed sunshine. now they have changed, it seems to me that a) or b) apply to you!
I look forward to discussing this matter traversing the pond with you until about October 2010. welcome to the real world.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
But the above are all chaff regarding the Age 60 rule. Basic principles of freedom and anti-discrimination, if applied, would return a rule which stated: Any pilot may operate so long as that pilot is able to maintain proficiency and successfully undergo required periodic physical evaluations. Period.
Check Six Krueger...
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Seems like discrimination to me, to have to have compulsory retirement ages at all?
All you people quoting examples of good vs bad old vs young pilots that you have known, are kind of missing the point. We all know there are some 40 year old chain-smoking lard-eating clogged-arteries bored disinterested lazy useless permanent-RHS-warming idle gits out there, and there are also 70- and 80- + year olds who are still sharp as tacks, running marathons, dispensing priceless training and advice and showing the rest of us mere mortals how it should be done (remember Bob Hoover anyone)?
We are already the most stringently assessed and harshly tested profession on the planet. If a pilot is good enough to keep on passing the non stop assault of medicals and proficiency checks, then it seems to me that '65' is just as much of a cruel and arbitrary number to remove someone's passion and their livelihood, as '60'.
I love doing this job, and if some bunch of Brussels politicians want to stop me doing it just because I've reached some specific number of years then they can all bite me.
All you people quoting examples of good vs bad old vs young pilots that you have known, are kind of missing the point. We all know there are some 40 year old chain-smoking lard-eating clogged-arteries bored disinterested lazy useless permanent-RHS-warming idle gits out there, and there are also 70- and 80- + year olds who are still sharp as tacks, running marathons, dispensing priceless training and advice and showing the rest of us mere mortals how it should be done (remember Bob Hoover anyone)?
We are already the most stringently assessed and harshly tested profession on the planet. If a pilot is good enough to keep on passing the non stop assault of medicals and proficiency checks, then it seems to me that '65' is just as much of a cruel and arbitrary number to remove someone's passion and their livelihood, as '60'.
I love doing this job, and if some bunch of Brussels politicians want to stop me doing it just because I've reached some specific number of years then they can all bite me.
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
There seems to be a lot of bleating on about how bad the job situation is for newcomers, looking back I can think of many periods when jobs were harder to come by than now. For those that go on about this and say "if you can't afford to retire at 60 it is your own fault" I wonder how many have lost their job due to the company going broke and had to start again at the bottom of a new seniority list - possibly having spent some time unemployed.
Yes some of us might need to work beyond 60 and not because we are paying for a new Ferrari!
I hope those bleating about the possible retirement age increase do not end up in this situation and can afford to retire early
Yes some of us might need to work beyond 60 and not because we are paying for a new Ferrari!
I hope those bleating about the possible retirement age increase do not end up in this situation and can afford to retire early
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Quote:
I wonder how many have lost their job due to the company going broke and had to start again at the bottom of a new seniority list - possibly having spent some time unemployed.
Foxmoth:
I know many more 200 hr pilots with a frozen ATPL licence whose families paid around 100 000 USD for training and never even made it to an aviation job!! They had to convert themselves to other jobs cause couldn't maintain their licence!!
Ooh how long were you maybe out of a job? (because you didn't wanna go middle or far east probably maybe because you have a family which I completely understand!!) So you have a life? Good for you!!
How low were you on the seniority list?? What the hell do you care if you are cpt earning decent money!! You wanna be another chief pilot immediately after losing your previous job? Go away!
(Typical 12 hr flight as cpt:sleep 6 hrs-eat 2hrs-try to convince f/o how smart you are 1 hr-try to seduce purser 1 hr and maybe work 2...)
There is a time to come and a time to go...maybe till 62 but not 65...no good for nobody...
I wonder how many have lost their job due to the company going broke and had to start again at the bottom of a new seniority list - possibly having spent some time unemployed.
Foxmoth:
I know many more 200 hr pilots with a frozen ATPL licence whose families paid around 100 000 USD for training and never even made it to an aviation job!! They had to convert themselves to other jobs cause couldn't maintain their licence!!
Ooh how long were you maybe out of a job? (because you didn't wanna go middle or far east probably maybe because you have a family which I completely understand!!) So you have a life? Good for you!!
How low were you on the seniority list?? What the hell do you care if you are cpt earning decent money!! You wanna be another chief pilot immediately after losing your previous job? Go away!
(Typical 12 hr flight as cpt:sleep 6 hrs-eat 2hrs-try to convince f/o how smart you are 1 hr-try to seduce purser 1 hr and maybe work 2...)
There is a time to come and a time to go...maybe till 62 but not 65...no good for nobody...
That's Life!!
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
DD777
Never heard of divorce? It has been queried here 'how many wives?', well only one ex can seriously screw any planning you may have made, but if that hasn't happened to you yet, don't come back here and bleat if it does!
handflying
You can end up fairly near the bottom of the F/O list, maybe gaining a couple of years for experience. Then you are in the same position as a 'newcomer' and have to wait your turn for the jump across the flight deck. You may even have a big mortgage and kids in higher education/university, most of the 'newcomers' won't be in that position, how do you save for your retirement then?
we all knew that we had to retire early and everyone should have made provision for that from the start.
handflying
How low were you on the seniority list?? What the hell do you care if you are cpt earning decent money!! You wanna be another chief pilot immediately after losing your previous job? Go away!
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Most of the "pro senior league" above seems to worry about the magical number 60. If it goes up to 65, it's still a magical number, and some of you will still fight against. Where would you end? 100? Give me a break! You will always find an exeptional guy (who isn't necessarily you) who is still fit with XX years.
And to those who say there shouldn't be any limit: Do you really believe that it's yourself who can decide if you are good enough? Then we should all sign our base check form ourselves, right? You have no medical knowledge. So someone else has to do it for you. And everyone of you knows that medical check-ups are sometimes, how should I say, very friendly conversations with an old buddy...
By the way: I know that national pension schemes start at 65. That's why you need additional insurance, in Switzerland called Bridge Insurance. If you don't get it from your employer you need to do it on the open market by yourself. It's part of your salary. You might have to save a pinte per day!
Dani
And to those who say there shouldn't be any limit: Do you really believe that it's yourself who can decide if you are good enough? Then we should all sign our base check form ourselves, right? You have no medical knowledge. So someone else has to do it for you. And everyone of you knows that medical check-ups are sometimes, how should I say, very friendly conversations with an old buddy...
By the way: I know that national pension schemes start at 65. That's why you need additional insurance, in Switzerland called Bridge Insurance. If you don't get it from your employer you need to do it on the open market by yourself. It's part of your salary. You might have to save a pinte per day!
Dani
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Re: Stop The Law Project To Let Pilot Work Until 65 Years Old
Originally Posted by fantom
now they have changed, it seems to me that a) or b) apply to you!
I look forward to discussing this matter traversing the pond with you until about October 2010. welcome to the real world.
I look forward to discussing this matter traversing the pond with you until about October 2010. welcome to the real world.
By the way, explain again to me how the rules a) or b) apply to me ?
I also "look forward to discussing this matter traversing the pond with you until about October 2010"....hope you're awake though.