More madness at BA.
Guest
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Over the years, I have flown many times with the operating crew, on both LH and SH sectors. I have never once witnessed behaviour from either CC or FD crew that could be construed as hostile, in fact generally, it is quite the opposite. On many occasions, I have seen the Captain welcome all the CC to the bar, and buy the first round. It is regretable that it seems prevalent that there is a definite "Us and Them" attitude nowadays. Perhaps it is the result of overdosing on "Pink and Fluffy" culture, and bottom line results, rather than emphasising the Safety critical nature of our jobs. On the up side, I still believe that most (Sorry, except Air Liberte IMHO)CC and FD are extremely professional, and wouldnt stoop to such petty backbiting.
Tailwinds
Tailwinds
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Well, As I,ve just edited my reply to Yellow dog I may as well reply to you.
Yes, I agree. We are talking on this thread about (initially) a BA problem and it has now been somewhat generalised. NonetheLess, my company CC and FD get on very well. We are never short of company for a meal out or a drink and we always have enough in common (even a doddering old git like me) to keep the conversation flowing.
Just seems a shame that a worthless minority are causing all this Us and Them.
Its still better than working for a living!
Yes, I agree. We are talking on this thread about (initially) a BA problem and it has now been somewhat generalised. NonetheLess, my company CC and FD get on very well. We are never short of company for a meal out or a drink and we always have enough in common (even a doddering old git like me) to keep the conversation flowing.
Just seems a shame that a worthless minority are causing all this Us and Them.
Its still better than working for a living!
Guest
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Once worked for an outfit where the Cabin Crew Union wanted complet responsability of the aircraft, from the cockpit door rearwards! Luckly we had a strong pilotos union, "in those days', and stopped the whole matter, in it's tracks. This, by menacing the company with a strike if,they, didnt do something about it! End of story! The cabin crew and unions should realize that there basic obligation is to 'assist the commander in an emergency situation'. And not to create one! What happened to the good old days where a crew members enjoyed working together and a trip was still enjoyable, or at least tolerable?
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Thinalbert
If you expect to be refered to by 'captain' until you decide otherwise, extend the same courtesy to your CSD, and call him/her miss/mrs/mr etc...
Personally, the only people I refer to by a professional name are the clergy and consultants - THEY have earned it
WCF
If you expect to be refered to by 'captain' until you decide otherwise, extend the same courtesy to your CSD, and call him/her miss/mrs/mr etc...
Personally, the only people I refer to by a professional name are the clergy and consultants - THEY have earned it
WCF
Guest
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So has an airline Captain. One day if your life depends on the guys or girls up front doing a good job you might even believe it yourself.
As far as addressing the CSD, I try to make a point of asking him/her how they would like to be addressed, and am quite happy to call them Mr, Mrs, Miss or Ms if thats what they wish.
This is no ego trip, its about acknowledging position and I am quite happy for that to be a 2 way street.
Exactly what has a consultant or clergy done to warrant being called by their title that an airline Captain, Police Officer, Senior Military Officer, Judge, Peer of the Realm etc etc etc has not done?
[This message has been edited by THINALBERT (edited 02 May 2001).]
As far as addressing the CSD, I try to make a point of asking him/her how they would like to be addressed, and am quite happy to call them Mr, Mrs, Miss or Ms if thats what they wish.
This is no ego trip, its about acknowledging position and I am quite happy for that to be a 2 way street.
Exactly what has a consultant or clergy done to warrant being called by their title that an airline Captain, Police Officer, Senior Military Officer, Judge, Peer of the Realm etc etc etc has not done?
[This message has been edited by THINALBERT (edited 02 May 2001).]
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Couldn't resist copying and pasting this posting from another thread. I,m not casting any opinions but would be grateful for any thoughts from other Captains or any of the Cabin Crew who are visiting this thread - and most welcome too.
"Anyone ever told the captains the potential liability cost to the captain if he runs out of fuel and servives over central London?
A captain is legally liable to the extent of his worldwide wealth if he causes a death or damage to persons or property.Therefor a pilot maybe should not own any assets personally and have wealth in a trust.
Fuel rules will quickly change when the first airliner runs dry over London.
Some airlines east of Dover are unaware of the LHR 20 mins. They get Cfp fuel from the USA and generally the zero fuel weight passed has errors ( the wrong way ) sometimes as much as 4000 to 7000kgs.
When a passenger buys a ticket are they made aware you plans include having only 15 mins befor the engines quit after touch down?
Why not an extra 2 hours hold fuel?
These are civil passenger airline ( suposedly safe) operations not military war ops.
After a civil airliner runs dry over LHR the airline management will be sacked in the blink of an eye and fuel loads will change.
It is called Tomb stone flight safety.
Why make your Tomb stone befor your time?
If you want the comfort factor of extra fuel take it, but do not expect the managers to give you another 3 year contract of employment when yours expires,this is managerial pressure and their idea of CRM.
A captain must be prepared to walk or be sacked every time he takes a stand and insists upon his safety requirements being actioned and be prepared to live by these rules.
Today the stress and pressure on captains is getting higher and attempts are continuous to undermine the authority and status of the captain.
People not onboard the flight who seek to influence and minimise the fuel load to be carried are guilty of "Interference with the flight" and the "Captains authority".
Authority delegated to him by law of the state, as a Captain Peacock posted.
Questions, What or where is the state back up of its commanders? Has this back up ever been actioned?
Question,Why are the arrival fuel figures not recorded by the Caa at Lhr and reviewed with the same concern as the noise abatements and SID flight paths?
The fact is nobody is "Guarding the guards."
Today the state is not concerned about fuel loads over their capital city.
Another fact? I check the news every night to see if has happened,and say a prayer it never will.
Pray with me lads its all you have got left, nobody who can do anything about this is interested.
Do not let them kill you and be brave and be real captains (not dead ones) and put the fuel "you" want on."
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IP: Logged
"Anyone ever told the captains the potential liability cost to the captain if he runs out of fuel and servives over central London?
A captain is legally liable to the extent of his worldwide wealth if he causes a death or damage to persons or property.Therefor a pilot maybe should not own any assets personally and have wealth in a trust.
Fuel rules will quickly change when the first airliner runs dry over London.
Some airlines east of Dover are unaware of the LHR 20 mins. They get Cfp fuel from the USA and generally the zero fuel weight passed has errors ( the wrong way ) sometimes as much as 4000 to 7000kgs.
When a passenger buys a ticket are they made aware you plans include having only 15 mins befor the engines quit after touch down?
Why not an extra 2 hours hold fuel?
These are civil passenger airline ( suposedly safe) operations not military war ops.
After a civil airliner runs dry over LHR the airline management will be sacked in the blink of an eye and fuel loads will change.
It is called Tomb stone flight safety.
Why make your Tomb stone befor your time?
If you want the comfort factor of extra fuel take it, but do not expect the managers to give you another 3 year contract of employment when yours expires,this is managerial pressure and their idea of CRM.
A captain must be prepared to walk or be sacked every time he takes a stand and insists upon his safety requirements being actioned and be prepared to live by these rules.
Today the stress and pressure on captains is getting higher and attempts are continuous to undermine the authority and status of the captain.
People not onboard the flight who seek to influence and minimise the fuel load to be carried are guilty of "Interference with the flight" and the "Captains authority".
Authority delegated to him by law of the state, as a Captain Peacock posted.
Questions, What or where is the state back up of its commanders? Has this back up ever been actioned?
Question,Why are the arrival fuel figures not recorded by the Caa at Lhr and reviewed with the same concern as the noise abatements and SID flight paths?
The fact is nobody is "Guarding the guards."
Today the state is not concerned about fuel loads over their capital city.
Another fact? I check the news every night to see if has happened,and say a prayer it never will.
Pray with me lads its all you have got left, nobody who can do anything about this is interested.
Do not let them kill you and be brave and be real captains (not dead ones) and put the fuel "you" want on."
------------------
IP: Logged
Guest
Posts: n/a
PHEW!!!!!!!!!!
What a read....., in essence I suppose I agree with the argument, with respect to seniority and position etc., however I can't help point out that the industry in itself is somewhat to blame. The cabin crew themselves will tell you that it has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. Seniority seems to no longer be the be all and end all of the job for them as it is no longer advertised as a "career", but just an exciting job to do for a while. Respect for position is much the same, they have lowered the entrance age for many airlines resulting in very young crew, who grew up in a very different society, being very informed about what they are expected to do and what they are 'prepared' to do, and knowing they can get away with it with current legislation as far as dismissals go.
Long gone are the days when you trembled at the mere name of a CSD operating your flight as is the same with the Flight Crew, if you don't want to talk to them, then nowadays you don't have to, if you don't like the way they talk to you....report them for abusing their position!!!
It is all a bit of a mess, but when you cut discipline in any child's life at whatever stage, it will manifest itself and will p**s those people off who went through an "old school" type of discipline, which I feel is apparent in those Cabin Crew who started flying when they actually enjoyed the job instead as seeing it as a way to have a fab lifestyle. In saying that, as a SCCM I also enjoy a fab lifestyle, BUT I enjoy my work also and very rarely have a problem with the BA Flight Crews I have worked with for the last 9 years.
Afford the Flight Crew the respect they deserve, understanding what they go through to attain their position. Any other repect you want to throw at them is entirely based upon what they do to EARN IT, as happens in any career you have.
At the same time I expect the Flight Crew to acknowledge the time and effort I put into building my career as a SCCM and afford me the same respect I deserve as a common courtesy.
In all fairness I have only come across a few individuals who have disrespected me, both Flight Crew and Cabin Crew, and in general it happens only once, a quiet word without being over bearing and the "big I am" speech works wonders.
I believe CRM does work, for both sides. At Cranebank the courses I have attended have included Flight Crew and Cabin Crew and have been a great success with both sides learning a little bit about what happens either side of the door.
As a last point, Thinalbert, when you introduce yourself to the Cabin Crew, do you do so as yourself or as Captian whatever?
If Flight Crew introduce themselves to me using their first name I use it, always (except when in customer hearing). If they do so Captain style, I use Captain and let the rest crew know to do the same.
If it bothers anyone that much, why don't they just mention it to the person involved when it happens, as long as no FCO's are broken, and no-one is being put into a difficult position I can't see the problem, the majority of us are adults after all......
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Safe Flying all !!!
What a read....., in essence I suppose I agree with the argument, with respect to seniority and position etc., however I can't help point out that the industry in itself is somewhat to blame. The cabin crew themselves will tell you that it has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. Seniority seems to no longer be the be all and end all of the job for them as it is no longer advertised as a "career", but just an exciting job to do for a while. Respect for position is much the same, they have lowered the entrance age for many airlines resulting in very young crew, who grew up in a very different society, being very informed about what they are expected to do and what they are 'prepared' to do, and knowing they can get away with it with current legislation as far as dismissals go.
Long gone are the days when you trembled at the mere name of a CSD operating your flight as is the same with the Flight Crew, if you don't want to talk to them, then nowadays you don't have to, if you don't like the way they talk to you....report them for abusing their position!!!
It is all a bit of a mess, but when you cut discipline in any child's life at whatever stage, it will manifest itself and will p**s those people off who went through an "old school" type of discipline, which I feel is apparent in those Cabin Crew who started flying when they actually enjoyed the job instead as seeing it as a way to have a fab lifestyle. In saying that, as a SCCM I also enjoy a fab lifestyle, BUT I enjoy my work also and very rarely have a problem with the BA Flight Crews I have worked with for the last 9 years.
Afford the Flight Crew the respect they deserve, understanding what they go through to attain their position. Any other repect you want to throw at them is entirely based upon what they do to EARN IT, as happens in any career you have.
At the same time I expect the Flight Crew to acknowledge the time and effort I put into building my career as a SCCM and afford me the same respect I deserve as a common courtesy.
In all fairness I have only come across a few individuals who have disrespected me, both Flight Crew and Cabin Crew, and in general it happens only once, a quiet word without being over bearing and the "big I am" speech works wonders.
I believe CRM does work, for both sides. At Cranebank the courses I have attended have included Flight Crew and Cabin Crew and have been a great success with both sides learning a little bit about what happens either side of the door.
As a last point, Thinalbert, when you introduce yourself to the Cabin Crew, do you do so as yourself or as Captian whatever?
If Flight Crew introduce themselves to me using their first name I use it, always (except when in customer hearing). If they do so Captain style, I use Captain and let the rest crew know to do the same.
If it bothers anyone that much, why don't they just mention it to the person involved when it happens, as long as no FCO's are broken, and no-one is being put into a difficult position I can't see the problem, the majority of us are adults after all......
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Safe Flying all !!!
Guest
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Coming home from Gran Canaria I as wannabe asked to sit in for landing/approach and was told by a steward ( who could have been a stewardess!)that sorry no but the head stewardess had friends on and they were models and beautiful and they might want to go to the flight deck! On asking in whose eyes were they beautiful I was blanked but i won in the end as I as a paying passenger wanted the same treatment as others. I wonder when these biscuit throwers stop thinking they are concorde pilots and revert back to their silly little jobs.
Guest
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Well thanks for that psr777. Nice to get some consructive feedback from Cabin Crew.
WRT how do I introduce myself, its a good point. What I usually do is say something like "Good morning, I,m (insert name no captain) pleased to meet you." Now the fact that I,m wearing a Captains uniform usually means (95% of the time) that the reply is something like "Oh Good morning Captain, my name is (insert CSD name)pleased to meet you."
Now as far as I,m concerned the mutual respects have been exchanged and I usually reply "Oh please call me (insert christian name)."
As far as the posting went by gbnkr that attacked the Cabin Crew, please have this one on a captain
"PLONKER"
[This message has been edited by THINALBERT (edited 02 May 2001).]
WRT how do I introduce myself, its a good point. What I usually do is say something like "Good morning, I,m (insert name no captain) pleased to meet you." Now the fact that I,m wearing a Captains uniform usually means (95% of the time) that the reply is something like "Oh Good morning Captain, my name is (insert CSD name)pleased to meet you."
Now as far as I,m concerned the mutual respects have been exchanged and I usually reply "Oh please call me (insert christian name)."
As far as the posting went by gbnkr that attacked the Cabin Crew, please have this one on a captain
"PLONKER"
[This message has been edited by THINALBERT (edited 02 May 2001).]
Guest
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Sorry to be boring....
But I think that certain people posting reply's on this thread seem to have forgotten that the cabin crew and flightdeck crew are a TEAM, more effort should be spent trying to cultivate this relationship, instead of trying to find fault with each other, over somtimes minor and trivial things.
We should look out for each other, and try to cover each others backs instead of stabbing them!!
Happy flying all
But I think that certain people posting reply's on this thread seem to have forgotten that the cabin crew and flightdeck crew are a TEAM, more effort should be spent trying to cultivate this relationship, instead of trying to find fault with each other, over somtimes minor and trivial things.
We should look out for each other, and try to cover each others backs instead of stabbing them!!
Happy flying all
Guest
Posts: n/a
OK (bottom of page 9)it must be time to put this one to bed!
Lets sack the 1% and the rest can enjoy themselves again.
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So thinking about what is good with the world of BA, I wonder if the rumours are true that there will be a reasonable profit share again this year paid in the summer!!!!
Lets sack the 1% and the rest can enjoy themselves again.
==========================================
So thinking about what is good with the world of BA, I wonder if the rumours are true that there will be a reasonable profit share again this year paid in the summer!!!!
Guest
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After 27 years at the "Aviation University of Life"this humble old ex-Chief has formed his own 10% theory.
That is, in any group of people roughly 10% are going to be Ar$%(*es. This group usualy takes up 50% of my time on most sectors.
Unfortunately it also applies to my fellow workers in all sections of the industry.
Agreement and dissenting views welcome.
[This message has been edited by capt cynical (edited 03 May 2001).]
That is, in any group of people roughly 10% are going to be Ar$%(*es. This group usualy takes up 50% of my time on most sectors.
Unfortunately it also applies to my fellow workers in all sections of the industry.
Agreement and dissenting views welcome.
[This message has been edited by capt cynical (edited 03 May 2001).]
Guest
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Sorry old boy, dont understand your banter.
Perhaps inserting one of your other posts here might clarify your attitude.
Speedbird175
PPRuNe Line Training
Posts: 3
Registered: May 2001
posted 03 May 2001 13:59
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Well im not the youngest for command, but i got SFO on B744 at 32, now im 36 and 18 months Command on B744 with the worlds favourite airline.
Not married nor never will be, just enjoying the girls!
[This message has been edited by VICCYTEN (edited 03 May 2001).]
Perhaps inserting one of your other posts here might clarify your attitude.
Speedbird175
PPRuNe Line Training
Posts: 3
Registered: May 2001
posted 03 May 2001 13:59
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Well im not the youngest for command, but i got SFO on B744 at 32, now im 36 and 18 months Command on B744 with the worlds favourite airline.
Not married nor never will be, just enjoying the girls!
[This message has been edited by VICCYTEN (edited 03 May 2001).]
Guest
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Well Viccyten!
Yeah youve got it in one! You see how perfect i am and successful.
Nothing wrong with my attitude Sir, why are you jealous because ive got grovling cc at my feet? all looking for my seal of approval.
I enjoy my lazy life, but the social side better old boy!
You knowwwww
Yeah youve got it in one! You see how perfect i am and successful.
Nothing wrong with my attitude Sir, why are you jealous because ive got grovling cc at my feet? all looking for my seal of approval.
I enjoy my lazy life, but the social side better old boy!
You knowwwww