Pilot rebels against security check
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I sometimes wonder while going through "security" with all the other pax and being aware it is all just so much window dressing, what would happen if everyone turned around and said "No, enough!".......OK so if it was pax there would be alot of empty aeroplanes for a day or two....but then what?
... And what if it was aircrew who turned around one day and said the same thing....What would be the reaction? I think things would change overnight because there is far too much money involved in the business for aeroplanes not to fly. Just look what effect the shutdown of the US airspace for a couple of days had, just after the cause of all this.
Just a thought....
... And what if it was aircrew who turned around one day and said the same thing....What would be the reaction? I think things would change overnight because there is far too much money involved in the business for aeroplanes not to fly. Just look what effect the shutdown of the US airspace for a couple of days had, just after the cause of all this.
Just a thought....
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Flying Lawyer and others
I think you will find the explanation for eal401's abuse of someone he doesn't know, about a story he barely knows more than a line about:
<<What a moron.>>
...can quite easily be explained by this peculiar anti-pilot obsession he has with coming to a Pilots Forum and being as rude and abusive about pilots as he can. He is getting a name for himself! Very bizarre. Why would a 'management consultant' (ie 'clerk') want to come here just to be so anti and nasty?
It is unfortunate that as a result of so many odd people coming to pprune to bang their Anti-BA drum and their anti pilot drum, very very few of my colleagues even bother coming here. Fortunately I have an extremely thick skin and respond to such aggression with similar- I can take it and give it back, but most of my pilot colleagues regard this place as an unpleasant bear pit that unfortunately gives these weird people a forum to spout from, and they never ever come here, sadly. We have our own forums where outsiders like them can't nose their way in to spout such nastiness, and quite frankly, these people are spoiling the aims of pprune by their obsession- pilot & pilot, and pilot & public interaction. What can we do about them, because even my patience is wearing thin?
I think you will find the explanation for eal401's abuse of someone he doesn't know, about a story he barely knows more than a line about:
<<What a moron.>>
...can quite easily be explained by this peculiar anti-pilot obsession he has with coming to a Pilots Forum and being as rude and abusive about pilots as he can. He is getting a name for himself! Very bizarre. Why would a 'management consultant' (ie 'clerk') want to come here just to be so anti and nasty?
It is unfortunate that as a result of so many odd people coming to pprune to bang their Anti-BA drum and their anti pilot drum, very very few of my colleagues even bother coming here. Fortunately I have an extremely thick skin and respond to such aggression with similar- I can take it and give it back, but most of my pilot colleagues regard this place as an unpleasant bear pit that unfortunately gives these weird people a forum to spout from, and they never ever come here, sadly. We have our own forums where outsiders like them can't nose their way in to spout such nastiness, and quite frankly, these people are spoiling the aims of pprune by their obsession- pilot & pilot, and pilot & public interaction. What can we do about them, because even my patience is wearing thin?
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I tink it unwise to speculate excessively about eal401, since that would be to engage in the erroneous nonsense and deductions that seem like second nature to him. But the role of "early or traumatic toilet experiences" (being taken off the potty too early) seems a credible opening option.
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Wow,Rainboe....want to talk about diabetics instead? How about swapping war stories and real command scenarios?
BTW. It's good to see a captain standing up to the moronic attentions of (non) security measures.
Skydriller seems to be on the right path.
BTW. It's good to see a captain standing up to the moronic attentions of (non) security measures.
Skydriller seems to be on the right path.
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Do you think that ATCO's should be accorded this privilege as well? We have to undergo a full UK Security check, sign the official secrets act etc
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This pilot did what many of us probably feel like doing just about every time. The best part is, just about wherever you go, the local rent-a-cops have their own peculiarities to "enjoy".
Eg. Remove your jacket and have it also X-rayed, stand on a box regardless of setting off the red light/beeper to be "wanded", pat-downs, shoes off, etc, etc. I know they have a job to do but a little bit of humility would go a long long way. Some aggressive man-hating dyke ordering me to remove my shoes and walk back through is guaranteed to push my buttons.
Eal I really don't know why you hang around this site. Nothing better to do, I suppose. Your posts smack of troll-icity. Anyway, I'm sure the "moron" concerned has read your well-thought-out post and is losing sleep over it this very minute.
Old words but true: Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and, etc, etc...
Eg. Remove your jacket and have it also X-rayed, stand on a box regardless of setting off the red light/beeper to be "wanded", pat-downs, shoes off, etc, etc. I know they have a job to do but a little bit of humility would go a long long way. Some aggressive man-hating dyke ordering me to remove my shoes and walk back through is guaranteed to push my buttons.
Eal I really don't know why you hang around this site. Nothing better to do, I suppose. Your posts smack of troll-icity. Anyway, I'm sure the "moron" concerned has read your well-thought-out post and is losing sleep over it this very minute.
Old words but true: Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and, etc, etc...
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Roghead
Let's keep on thread shall we- diabetics belongs elsewhere. Please don't share your 'real Service War stories' with us now. I'm not military, so I have non to exchange (not that I want yours in the first place thank you).
Wow,Rainboe....want to talk about diabetics instead? How about swapping war stories and real command scenarios?
Let's keep in mind that some TSA staff have turned flight bags upside down with Jepp manuals and everything else falling to the floor, because the pilot was on a one-way trip as a deadhead, to fly a cargo plane.
By the way, whoever referred to man-hating dikes (on a previous page) probably meant to say man-hating bull-d*k*s [they are ready to fight you when you look at their attractive girlfriends
]. The guy who put this in a nutshell in a previous remark should be given an award. 
By the way, whoever referred to man-hating dikes (on a previous page) probably meant to say man-hating bull-d*k*s [they are ready to fight you when you look at their attractive girlfriends
]. The guy who put this in a nutshell in a previous remark should be given an award.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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This individual was told he "walked too fast." Why did he not just "walk more slowly?" Was it really that difficult? How come I've managed to get through security so many times without such problems? OK, so I have always been the lowly, scum of the earth passenger, but I've never had a problem despite finding some of the "jobsworth types" you all hate so much.
In any case, I apologise for my rash remark and regret any offensive it may have called the individual concerned, in the event he has read this. I will delete it forthwith to save any further upset.
In any case, I apologise for my rash remark and regret any offensive it may have called the individual concerned, in the event he has read this. I will delete it forthwith to save any further upset.
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A Commander is responsible for the security onboard the aircraft,
at the airports the security officers are responsible for the security.
How would we as pilots react if they interferred in our routines?
at the airports the security officers are responsible for the security.
How would we as pilots react if they interferred in our routines?
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Surely, following the laws of magnetism/induction, any current induced is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic field, so walking through the archway quickly should maximise any magnetic flux created, hence causing it to "beep". It sounds like that, in this instance, the security guard was the same guy that told me "take your hands out of your pockets" as the machine wouldn't work properly.
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I was told once that unless you move through the gates with a steady pace; it will go off , even if you don't have any metal on you. so far it seems to come through.
And ehh did you happen to see the capt. walk through first and second time? there might just be a significant speed difference. I don't know and i guess you don't either.
Every day i have to get this done walking to the airplane.... and it get's a bit on my nerves i have to admit. Better not tell anyone that whe have that big Ax behind the seat.... Shall we?
It's just so rediculous....
Pointer
And ehh did you happen to see the capt. walk through first and second time? there might just be a significant speed difference. I don't know and i guess you don't either.
Every day i have to get this done walking to the airplane.... and it get's a bit on my nerves i have to admit. Better not tell anyone that whe have that big Ax behind the seat.... Shall we?
It's just so rediculous....
Pointer
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I think that we all are responsible for security, or at least, thats what I am told... And most securitypersonel I have met and dealt with are polite, and gets the job done without much hasle.
But there are also those whose behavior is counterproductive, and leave you with a thought that they must have misunderstod something about their role in the big puzzle called an airport.
The companies who make a living at an airport ( airlines, handlingcompanies etc.) are just as much costumers to the securitypersonel, as the passengers. And we should be treated like costumers. Security are for our sake, so that we can feel safe - weather we are boarding a plane, or simply going to work in the airport.
we now have 3 weeks backgroundchecks before we can have an id-card, even if we have been working here for 5 years. So I guess that if the beeper doesnt go off on the second run, then maybe we are not carrying anything.
Whatever caused this incident, it only contributes to the feeling that security is a matter of "them against us", and thats no good to anyone.
spelling sucks, I know....
But there are also those whose behavior is counterproductive, and leave you with a thought that they must have misunderstod something about their role in the big puzzle called an airport.
The companies who make a living at an airport ( airlines, handlingcompanies etc.) are just as much costumers to the securitypersonel, as the passengers. And we should be treated like costumers. Security are for our sake, so that we can feel safe - weather we are boarding a plane, or simply going to work in the airport.
we now have 3 weeks backgroundchecks before we can have an id-card, even if we have been working here for 5 years. So I guess that if the beeper doesnt go off on the second run, then maybe we are not carrying anything.
Whatever caused this incident, it only contributes to the feeling that security is a matter of "them against us", and thats no good to anyone.
spelling sucks, I know....
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Good luck to the Captain involved.
Whatever the story, in my limited experience the pilot is usually in the right. Not always the case, of course. Though as the situation becomes clearer, the theory seems to be holding up rather well.
Whatever the story, in my limited experience the pilot is usually in the right. Not always the case, of course. Though as the situation becomes clearer, the theory seems to be holding up rather well.
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To all you TSA staff and other zealots involved in security, plus
all governments and agencies involved in aircraft security, yes
I mean you Moron!
Airport security is to minimise the chance of someone taking an
aircraft over by force and replaying a 9/11 type situation.
Pilots already have control of all the aircraft they fly, so where
do you fools get off harassing us about our nail clippers etc.
Its pure logic, why hassle the people already in control of the
aircraft. We can kill you all with the flick of a switch, yet you
persist with extra thorough screening, you are making us angry.
Please don't get us angry, we might take the axe from the cockpit and beat some sense into your moronic little brains.
all governments and agencies involved in aircraft security, yes
I mean you Moron!
Airport security is to minimise the chance of someone taking an
aircraft over by force and replaying a 9/11 type situation.
Pilots already have control of all the aircraft they fly, so where
do you fools get off harassing us about our nail clippers etc.
Its pure logic, why hassle the people already in control of the
aircraft. We can kill you all with the flick of a switch, yet you
persist with extra thorough screening, you are making us angry.
Please don't get us angry, we might take the axe from the cockpit and beat some sense into your moronic little brains.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Type it here by all means, but I shouldn't let any of them hear you say this sort of thing! It really would be 'Marigolds on, bend over please!'
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Checking of crews is, at times, over zealous, we all know that but then everyone has a bad day so a bit of give and take isn't such a bad thing; and, of course we don't have access to the security staffs' satnding orders or SOPs.
Now, having said that, how much 'give' and how much 'take' is apposite before the invisible line is crossed?
I was taught, for example, that it was prudent for a male crew member to observe the physical search ( padding down ) of female crewmembers after a series of checks were reported as alledgedley being overly intrusive and familiar. When my wife was selected at 'random' for a padding down on the airbridge at IAD, I stopped to watch, and got my ass chewed out by the security people.
I arrived at GLA, ferrying an airplane on a planned rotation to collect another, and was parked on an International stand. No transport available so we had to walk through the terminal to get to domestic to pick up the other jet. On the way through domestic security my flightbag was emptied and I was given a real going over by security, all in front of pax.
Also at own base I've been given a grilling and good going over even though they new me !!!
On the other hand, I have been through a few Italian airports where 'Bongiorno' seems to count as security clearance.
The standard patently isn't and the application of commonsense seems to have evaporated.
It's rather similar to who can access to the flightdeck, but that's another topic entirely!
Now, having said that, how much 'give' and how much 'take' is apposite before the invisible line is crossed?
I was taught, for example, that it was prudent for a male crew member to observe the physical search ( padding down ) of female crewmembers after a series of checks were reported as alledgedley being overly intrusive and familiar. When my wife was selected at 'random' for a padding down on the airbridge at IAD, I stopped to watch, and got my ass chewed out by the security people.
I arrived at GLA, ferrying an airplane on a planned rotation to collect another, and was parked on an International stand. No transport available so we had to walk through the terminal to get to domestic to pick up the other jet. On the way through domestic security my flightbag was emptied and I was given a real going over by security, all in front of pax.
Also at own base I've been given a grilling and good going over even though they new me !!!
On the other hand, I have been through a few Italian airports where 'Bongiorno' seems to count as security clearance.
The standard patently isn't and the application of commonsense seems to have evaporated.
It's rather similar to who can access to the flightdeck, but that's another topic entirely!
I'm surprised many here seem to imply that crew should be given special treatment over pax.
The fact is airside is sterile. It doesn't take a genius to realize that a crew member might just be bringing something airside for usage by somebody else somewhere else.
I say over-vigilence is better than the opposite. It might **** some people off - but thats the price we unfortunately have to pay.
Personally I find if you treat people with respect, they often respond likewise.
The fact is airside is sterile. It doesn't take a genius to realize that a crew member might just be bringing something airside for usage by somebody else somewhere else.
I say over-vigilence is better than the opposite. It might **** some people off - but thats the price we unfortunately have to pay.
Personally I find if you treat people with respect, they often respond likewise.
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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The fact is airside is sterile
Those of us who fly these aircraft for a living know exactly how "sterile" airside really is. It's about as sterile as a pig farmers cess pit!
Mind you, just goes to show you how gullible the travelling public is if they believe the cosmetic joke that is called 'security' these days. 
fact is if you take that attitude - we are all *****
where I come from, believe me, we take security very seriously.
And those of you that fly these aircraft for a living?
What exactly does that mean?
where I come from, believe me, we take security very seriously.
And those of you that fly these aircraft for a living?
What exactly does that mean?