fired while on duty
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Please do not take offence over this but my engineering experiences in the asiatic and the two Romes in particular lead me to believe that we are talking third world standards - and where the euros from the EU disappear to I couldn`t guess !
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You are 100% right Vroum Vroum 13. I know a lot of pilots resting on the 767 floor instead of taking advantage of the business class. I always refused to do this : not a puppet!
Lot of pilots not at a standard level and so many captains with NO airmanship: usual Blue Panorama "combinazione"with Pecci's friends!!!! Palma (Chief Pilot, DO, etc, etc.) will have one day to answer to some embarrassing questions. No doubt!!!!!!!!
Lot of pilots not at a standard level and so many captains with NO airmanship: usual Blue Panorama "combinazione"with Pecci's friends!!!! Palma (Chief Pilot, DO, etc, etc.) will have one day to answer to some embarrassing questions. No doubt!!!!!!!!
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BPA has just fired two other B767 expat captains!!! yuk: Apparently one of them complained about the "combinazione" with the rest time. (they always try to f...*** you with your days off). The other captain was sick when he received the letter from BPA. International court action is in progress with ex-B767 pilots. Will let you know...
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Not surprised that 2 guys are again fired! It makes a total of 46 pilots out of Blue Panorama in less of 22 months. A world record?
Also been officially informed that British, Belgian and French CAAs are now aware of some "BPA combinazione". They should give some paperwork to the ENAC (Italian CAA) in the next few days.
Also been officially informed that British, Belgian and French CAAs are now aware of some "BPA combinazione". They should give some paperwork to the ENAC (Italian CAA) in the next few days.
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With the actual number of employed pilots, if flight time limitations were to be enforced, BPA would not be able to operate all of its flights.
ENAC should verify how BPA manages to operate his flights and may be, may be...., they will find out that three crew flights are operated by two pilots only.
Rotations such as HAV-SCU-FCO-MXP are scheduled at 16.50 hours although they always end up well over 17 hours duty.
Probably some p.s. by ENAC entitles BPA not to consider transit times.
ENAC should verify how BPA manages to operate his flights and may be, may be...., they will find out that three crew flights are operated by two pilots only.
Rotations such as HAV-SCU-FCO-MXP are scheduled at 16.50 hours although they always end up well over 17 hours duty.
Probably some p.s. by ENAC entitles BPA not to consider transit times.
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Same problem for flights out of BKK!! The duty time is an abstract consideration for the BPA management... By the way, do you know the salary of a B767 relief pilot at BPA? 700 Euros! Yes my friends : SEVEN HUNDRED EUROS!!! Less than a chief purser : an incredible "great" income for the "third man" of the flight deck. This is not unrelated to the lack of motivation of many pilots.
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Apparently, Palma has just brought a contribution to the Blue Panorama Zero Consideration (BPZC): conducted again a refueling with engine turning in Cuba (don't know yet if passengers were on board or not). Nice shot for a chief pilot & DO, isn'it?
What is the ENAC waiting for?
What is the ENAC waiting for?
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12/04/2004 - 15:52 www.guidaviaggi.it
Blue Panorama achieves TRTO certification.
Important achievement from ENAC to Blue Panorama: the airline has received the TRTO certification and is therefore authorized to qualify pilots in and out of the airline on its own aircraft.
The TRTO certification has been released at the end of a long process lasted 9 months, during which the ENAC Inspectors have been able to verify quality and technical standards of Blue Panorama.
In particular, the certification achieved will authorize Blue Panorama to qualify pilots on B737, 757 and 767, in addition to perform courses for Flight Attendants, CRM, Low Visibility, MNPS, RNAV, RVSM, ETOPS
Blue Panorama achieves TRTO certification.
Important achievement from ENAC to Blue Panorama: the airline has received the TRTO certification and is therefore authorized to qualify pilots in and out of the airline on its own aircraft.
The TRTO certification has been released at the end of a long process lasted 9 months, during which the ENAC Inspectors have been able to verify quality and technical standards of Blue Panorama.
In particular, the certification achieved will authorize Blue Panorama to qualify pilots on B737, 757 and 767, in addition to perform courses for Flight Attendants, CRM, Low Visibility, MNPS, RNAV, RVSM, ETOPS
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I strongly suggest they buid a shrine at the Blue Panorama headquarters: having achieved the TRTO thing when any pilot with some credibility has left the ship is nothing less than a miracle...or maybe it's the ENAC guys that should pay Lourdes a visit, given that they have all become deaf and blind???
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let me know, who is the TRTO Head of Training post holder? CP...?
JAA request two different names when an airline hold a TRTO ... it is a mandatory!(OPS/FCL)
But no problemo for blue banana, right that with a TRTO agreement they can do what they want how they want (fast with no cost...), and at the end with only one italian TRE from the airline(!)
But last question how can an italian course have a FCL TRTO agreement, Italia is NOT JAR-FCL ....
Be careful guys when you will back to GB,F, or D with your "Pecci cheap paper", this is not FCL....
JAA request two different names when an airline hold a TRTO ... it is a mandatory!(OPS/FCL)
But no problemo for blue banana, right that with a TRTO agreement they can do what they want how they want (fast with no cost...), and at the end with only one italian TRE from the airline(!)
But last question how can an italian course have a FCL TRTO agreement, Italia is NOT JAR-FCL ....
Be careful guys when you will back to GB,F, or D with your "Pecci cheap paper", this is not FCL....
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Hey guys... I am just...UPSIDE DOWN!!!!!!
Blue Panorama acting now as TRTO is not less that a BIG, BIG, BIG JOKE. I would like to know what level of corruption is attached to such a delirious decision. I've been flying less than 5 months in this garbage called Blue Panorama and I can tell U that I've never seen so many violations in such a little time.
Flying beyond the decision point with less than the mandatory fuel amount, refueling with one engine turning in Cuba (Cayo Largo was a nice spot), never considering the MEL (some well known italian captains once again) was a national sport in Blue Panorama.
Unfortunately I do agree with all of U : There will one day one 767 crashed somewhere. Sad but too many donkeys...
Blue Panorama acting now as TRTO is not less that a BIG, BIG, BIG JOKE. I would like to know what level of corruption is attached to such a delirious decision. I've been flying less than 5 months in this garbage called Blue Panorama and I can tell U that I've never seen so many violations in such a little time.
Flying beyond the decision point with less than the mandatory fuel amount, refueling with one engine turning in Cuba (Cayo Largo was a nice spot), never considering the MEL (some well known italian captains once again) was a national sport in Blue Panorama.
Unfortunately I do agree with all of U : There will one day one 767 crashed somewhere. Sad but too many donkeys...
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Hi,it took me a while to realise that we,BPA's pilots,are a bunch of
incompetents.Thanks to this audit we all know now that pilots from England,Belgium,France,Italy(ex-BA,City Bird,Sobelair,Sabena,Air Europe etc)are lousy guys.But to save us from chaos our dear Mr P.hired the best french pilots around(pleonasm?)and after only three months,he fired almost all of them.I really don't understand this guy, matter of fact i've decided to resign and not fly again ever.I hope this post's gonna open the eyes of my fellow collegues,it's time for us to learn how to fly an airplane properly(without the french we are nothing)
all my apologies for what i've written before,i was on the wrong path
incompetents.Thanks to this audit we all know now that pilots from England,Belgium,France,Italy(ex-BA,City Bird,Sobelair,Sabena,Air Europe etc)are lousy guys.But to save us from chaos our dear Mr P.hired the best french pilots around(pleonasm?)and after only three months,he fired almost all of them.I really don't understand this guy, matter of fact i've decided to resign and not fly again ever.I hope this post's gonna open the eyes of my fellow collegues,it's time for us to learn how to fly an airplane properly(without the french we are nothing)
all my apologies for what i've written before,i was on the wrong path
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Hi Velemax
Sorry for your bruised national ego, but my observation doesn’t concern all the Italian pilots of Blue Panorama. I met also a minority of professional pilots with a standard airmanship. Unfortunately, these good guys are surrounded by a real army of incompetents. Breaking of rules is so usual in Blue Panorama that it is not surprising that 99% of the expats already left the company. And this is not only a “frenchie” question, neither a british nor a Belgian one. Face it: the way of doing aviation in Blue Panorama is simply unfair and the dishonesty of P…i’s methods is proven.
The bad reputation of Blue Panorama is not only known out of Italy but also in your own country. In the opinion of most Alitalia / Eurofly / Lauda Italy / Livingstone / Volare pilots, Blue Panorama is identified as a cheat with no respect for the elementary rules: can you affirm that the MEL is not an abstract consideration in the day to day operations? Can you affirm that refuelling with one engine turning in Cayo Largo (not only once) is a legal procedure? Can you affirm that Blue Panorama didn’t carry illegal materials from Cuba to Italy? Can you affirm that ETOPS fundamentals are respected? Can you affirm that CP doesn’t encourage a form of “omerta”? The list of unfair methods is endless and penalizes the respectful airlines.
I was already out of Blue Panorama when I read a copy of the unofficial audit written by some expat captains. But I must admit that most of the statements were entirely true. My Blue Panorama experience reminds me another experience in Africa, but… 25 years ago! I am now happy to fly in a respectful British established charter airline. Believe me or not, when the DO interviewed me, he noticed my brief stay in BPA and said : "hmmm...Blue Panorama..what a bad reputation these people have!".
From Belgium.
CARPEDIEM
Sorry for your bruised national ego, but my observation doesn’t concern all the Italian pilots of Blue Panorama. I met also a minority of professional pilots with a standard airmanship. Unfortunately, these good guys are surrounded by a real army of incompetents. Breaking of rules is so usual in Blue Panorama that it is not surprising that 99% of the expats already left the company. And this is not only a “frenchie” question, neither a british nor a Belgian one. Face it: the way of doing aviation in Blue Panorama is simply unfair and the dishonesty of P…i’s methods is proven.
The bad reputation of Blue Panorama is not only known out of Italy but also in your own country. In the opinion of most Alitalia / Eurofly / Lauda Italy / Livingstone / Volare pilots, Blue Panorama is identified as a cheat with no respect for the elementary rules: can you affirm that the MEL is not an abstract consideration in the day to day operations? Can you affirm that refuelling with one engine turning in Cayo Largo (not only once) is a legal procedure? Can you affirm that Blue Panorama didn’t carry illegal materials from Cuba to Italy? Can you affirm that ETOPS fundamentals are respected? Can you affirm that CP doesn’t encourage a form of “omerta”? The list of unfair methods is endless and penalizes the respectful airlines.
I was already out of Blue Panorama when I read a copy of the unofficial audit written by some expat captains. But I must admit that most of the statements were entirely true. My Blue Panorama experience reminds me another experience in Africa, but… 25 years ago! I am now happy to fly in a respectful British established charter airline. Believe me or not, when the DO interviewed me, he noticed my brief stay in BPA and said : "hmmm...Blue Panorama..what a bad reputation these people have!".
From Belgium.
CARPEDIEM
Last edited by CARPEDIEM; 14th Apr 2004 at 13:11.
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Thank you Carpediem for the minority of standard pilots.Anyway digging in BPA's dustbin i've find out a disturbing news:U.S. could'nt find WMD's in Irak because Mr P. brought them to Cuba via Tripoli(we were based there)Now all the saddam's scuds are pointing coconut's groove!!!INCREDIBLE but true(it's written on pprune,so!)also Bin laden and Saddam(the real one not the one we saw on tv)flew on bizness(blue class)to Cuba,they've started a rock band !!!with Fidel himself!! covering ZZTOP's greatest hits.
Mr P. getting sick of aviation wants to managed them.a world tour to follow check out the dates on pprune
Mr P. getting sick of aviation wants to managed them.a world tour to follow check out the dates on pprune
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Velemax, take a holiday..... if of course turni will let you!!!!!
Regarding the crime of refuelling with an engine running believe it or believe it not it has been an approved procedure in Italy, obviously without pax on board and with many other requirements. I am surprised because I had never even considered a situation were one would be pressed to do such a thing but guys, if you want to shoot someone then shoot the rulemakers!!!! On this subject lets hear from other operators if they have such a procedure to allow them to escape if transiting an airfield with no ASU and the APU fails to start on landing!!!!
Many of the problems talked about on this thread stem from the complacency of ENAC-Civilavia regarding the existing rules of flight time limitations and general operating procedures.
What I will say is that after 17 hours of duty it is hard for the average pilot to put up a good performance even if the aircraft is operating normally. If you do not have good operating fundamentals then the old cocoon of safety that surrounds us all wears perilously thin on your 3rd. landing and this is when I get veery angree at MXP approach control for unco-ordinated high speed-low speed and 35L , brief, no no 35R rebrief with opposing GA procedures!!!!
Sleep well gentleman....and Na..., Nat.... and Ca...werever you are now, for tomorrow we have to do it all over again..... and the CBs are building over Cuba.....
Keep YOUR cockpit a safe place.
Regarding the crime of refuelling with an engine running believe it or believe it not it has been an approved procedure in Italy, obviously without pax on board and with many other requirements. I am surprised because I had never even considered a situation were one would be pressed to do such a thing but guys, if you want to shoot someone then shoot the rulemakers!!!! On this subject lets hear from other operators if they have such a procedure to allow them to escape if transiting an airfield with no ASU and the APU fails to start on landing!!!!
Many of the problems talked about on this thread stem from the complacency of ENAC-Civilavia regarding the existing rules of flight time limitations and general operating procedures.
What I will say is that after 17 hours of duty it is hard for the average pilot to put up a good performance even if the aircraft is operating normally. If you do not have good operating fundamentals then the old cocoon of safety that surrounds us all wears perilously thin on your 3rd. landing and this is when I get veery angree at MXP approach control for unco-ordinated high speed-low speed and 35L , brief, no no 35R rebrief with opposing GA procedures!!!!
Sleep well gentleman....and Na..., Nat.... and Ca...werever you are now, for tomorrow we have to do it all over again..... and the CBs are building over Cuba.....
Keep YOUR cockpit a safe place.
Last edited by Zingaro; 14th Apr 2004 at 20:17.
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Hi Zingaro
Just checked in the BPA manuals : not mentioned that refueling with one engine turning is permitted (I know that everything is permitted or so in Italy, but...). Even JARs do not consider this opportunity for the 767. If you have further details, let's go.
Say hello to Fidel!
Regards.
From Belgium.
CARPE DIEM
Just checked in the BPA manuals : not mentioned that refueling with one engine turning is permitted (I know that everything is permitted or so in Italy, but...). Even JARs do not consider this opportunity for the 767. If you have further details, let's go.
Say hello to Fidel!
Regards.
From Belgium.
CARPE DIEM