747 Crash @ Lagos
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Now back to FlightSim
I am not going to even mention Emergencies and keeping runways sterile....
As for topman's reasoning "Get the 737 out of the way from the holding point", in my opinion, with the advance notice, the 737 should never have been allowed to taxi even to the holding point...
Yeah, I might be a bit overcautious, but in my book, that is the only way to be with an aircraft emergency in the air.. Everyone on the ground can wait....
Topman, you say you see aircraft departing when others are at 2 miles final all the time... Departing as in being instructed to line-up, or departing as in rolling with aircraft on 2 miles (even then...) ??? Might be the ignorant here, but there is a substancial difference between the two...
Anyways, glad to hear the 747 crew made it out alright, hope Airdisaster is right and the Lear ones did too (although if I was the one to make it out of that Lear I would have a "serious conversation" with the ATCO that cleared the 732)...
Just a flightsimmer's point of view (sadly)...
Wow! How much less can we all learn from this incident in Lagos because some amateur (no name mentioned, out of diplomacy) knows so little about an emergency aircraft's total priority regarding any, and maybe all runways?
This might have been already stated on a previous page, but Ignorance+Arrogance=Danger. A cockpit or (pc) FlightSim "Maginot Line"?
This might have been already stated on a previous page, but Ignorance+Arrogance=Danger. A cockpit or (pc) FlightSim "Maginot Line"?
Last edited by Ignition Override; 28th Jan 2004 at 12:22.
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Do tell mate
Allright Topman, why don't you give us an idea of your superior credentials? Not that I am holding my breath, you don't seem to be in the habit of answering questions. I am still waiting on an answer for the "747 hard to touch and hold level in non standard conditions, it all depends on the gyration swing and all else" comment. Its amusing to see you, a self-proclaimed expert with such superior qualifications being out thought by people who call themselves amatures. They and the flightsim folks have a far better grasp on real operational issues than you, and quite frankly come across as more professional than you could ever hope to be. I would rather fly with them than you anyday. If this topic did not involve the tragic deaths of 3 people, your sad views would probably not be as disgusting as they are to me.
Now, answer the questions, or
off.
Now, answer the questions, or
off.
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I saw the a/c and it doesm't look well.The right gear assemble is missing with various pieces missing from the wing but still stands up straight without any support.Despite this I still think the Nigerians are some of the best air traffickers in the business second only to the Greeks.
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http://aviation-safety.net/pubs/BCG-Lagos.pdf
I dont know if its been posted but here it is again....
http://aviation-safety.net/pubs/BCG-Lagos.pdf
http://aviation-safety.net/pubs/BCG-Lagos.pdf
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4G
thanx for the photo update, you dont always see the clean up and recovery of accidents (thos that leave enough to recover that is). Its obvious all involved put in sh@tloads of work to get the 747 back where it should have been in the first place, on a SERVICABLE runway!. With regards to topman or topshop or whatever the hell he calls himself, yes aircraft are regularly launched with small gaps but usually everybody is kept in the loop eg the pilot departing knows of the lander (so he can expedite) and vice versa
BUT the proviso to this is that they will BOTH BE OPERATING NORMALLY . In the case here the learjet crew were perfectly in the right not to expect an aircraft to be cleared to depart in front when they are only a couple of miles out ( to do so here in the UK would be both career suicide and morally wrong). Think about it you have been flying your lear on one engine for 90 miles or so (according to report) and are approaching the most difficult phase of the flight when the only engine you have left starts playing up, Now you with your immense experience should be able to work out that these pilots were both up Sh1t creek without a boat let alone a paddle! and then just to make their day a commercial (passenger carrying?) plane is lined up in front. What do you do? In the unenviable situation that this crew were put in, the results were tragic, and a sad inditement on the controller involved, god help him coz from what i've seen on tv justice in Lagos can be swift and brutal
thanx for the photo update, you dont always see the clean up and recovery of accidents (thos that leave enough to recover that is). Its obvious all involved put in sh@tloads of work to get the 747 back where it should have been in the first place, on a SERVICABLE runway!. With regards to topman or topshop or whatever the hell he calls himself, yes aircraft are regularly launched with small gaps but usually everybody is kept in the loop eg the pilot departing knows of the lander (so he can expedite) and vice versa
BUT the proviso to this is that they will BOTH BE OPERATING NORMALLY . In the case here the learjet crew were perfectly in the right not to expect an aircraft to be cleared to depart in front when they are only a couple of miles out ( to do so here in the UK would be both career suicide and morally wrong). Think about it you have been flying your lear on one engine for 90 miles or so (according to report) and are approaching the most difficult phase of the flight when the only engine you have left starts playing up, Now you with your immense experience should be able to work out that these pilots were both up Sh1t creek without a boat let alone a paddle! and then just to make their day a commercial (passenger carrying?) plane is lined up in front. What do you do? In the unenviable situation that this crew were put in, the results were tragic, and a sad inditement on the controller involved, god help him coz from what i've seen on tv justice in Lagos can be swift and brutal
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"Nigeria or not, I don't believe ATC would knowingly clear an a/c to land on an unserviceable runway." itain'tnecessarilyso!!
Flew for five years out of Lagos Avman, ATC is still in the stone age, it's a two-week course for them just to learn to key the mike at the right time. Worst incident for me was, in conditions of low vis, cleared into position for T/O in a Dakota (DC-3) and looked up to see a UTA four-holer doing a low overshoot/goaround. They had simultaneously cleared us to take off and him to land, perhaps to save time?? Pretty clever!! The UTA Capt. filed papers with everyone in authority he could think of, I blessed the man and shut up--I lived there!! Had visions of what a DC-3 might look like after its bigger DC-8 sibling did a full body press on it. Also flew with indigenous co-pilot trainees (There are 17 states in the country and 21 major local dialects). Unless the copilot and atc controller were from the same area, they could not always understand one another--both speaking English!! WeatherWISE, three months of the year, during the low-vis dusty conditions of the annual hamutan, a pilot who regularly uses Nigerian airports had better be big on situational awareness and have a strong survival instinct. You guys know the National Motto there?? "If you can't beat 'em, eat 'em!!"
Flew for five years out of Lagos Avman, ATC is still in the stone age, it's a two-week course for them just to learn to key the mike at the right time. Worst incident for me was, in conditions of low vis, cleared into position for T/O in a Dakota (DC-3) and looked up to see a UTA four-holer doing a low overshoot/goaround. They had simultaneously cleared us to take off and him to land, perhaps to save time?? Pretty clever!! The UTA Capt. filed papers with everyone in authority he could think of, I blessed the man and shut up--I lived there!! Had visions of what a DC-3 might look like after its bigger DC-8 sibling did a full body press on it. Also flew with indigenous co-pilot trainees (There are 17 states in the country and 21 major local dialects). Unless the copilot and atc controller were from the same area, they could not always understand one another--both speaking English!! WeatherWISE, three months of the year, during the low-vis dusty conditions of the annual hamutan, a pilot who regularly uses Nigerian airports had better be big on situational awareness and have a strong survival instinct. You guys know the National Motto there?? "If you can't beat 'em, eat 'em!!"
