747 Crash @ Lagos
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: MAN
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep, same old story. Its just you brothers at MK still keep it real! Total respect to you guys, the money you earn is not proportionate to the risks involved!
A difficult theatre of operations
A difficult theatre of operations
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
411A, don't remember what year that 707 shunt was, but by 1989 nothing had improved at Kano. Sh1t layover, too, even with a diverted Birdseed crew for company (the usual seasonal sandstorms in Lagos).
While we're at it, Lagos, Abuja and Port Harcourt are also less-than-perfect....
National TV was a hoot, though.
Hope this crew are okay.
While we're at it, Lagos, Abuja and Port Harcourt are also less-than-perfect....
National TV was a hoot, though.
Hope this crew are okay.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I concur with all your comments re the Nigerian airworks. I've known it on and off since the 1950s.
No mention of a recent B742 event on Harro Ranter's excellent aviation safety web site.
No mention of a recent B742 event on Harro Ranter's excellent aviation safety web site.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: western europe
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
it almost makes you think a call to your local Rep, before landing, with the request "take a run down the strip for us buddie and make sure its OK", might be a good idea !!!!
hobie ....
ps. now on ASN .......
http://aviation-safety.net/database/2003/031129-3.htm
hobie ....
ps. now on ASN .......
http://aviation-safety.net/database/2003/031129-3.htm
Guest
Posts: n/a
I was reliably informed the crew was specifically cleared to land on that r/w, after they had queried its serviceability. They were well aware of wip but, I say again, they were positively cleared to land. What else must they do ?
Comments on cowboys are totally out of line and betray a vast ignorance of operations in Africa.
Thanks be to God no-one was sufficiently hurt to need admission to hospital in Nigeria.
Landing in Africa by night ? I don’t miss it a bit.
oTd
Comments on cowboys are totally out of line and betray a vast ignorance of operations in Africa.
Thanks be to God no-one was sufficiently hurt to need admission to hospital in Nigeria.
Landing in Africa by night ? I don’t miss it a bit.
oTd
Join Date: May 2003
Location: the moon and beyond
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maxalt, The 732 was probably cleared to line up and take off as it would have otherwise acted as an obstacle (potential) to the incoming learjet. It was probably close to the runway on the taxiway and ATC saw it more fit to clear it away before the learjet touched.
BTW, the 742 is a hard one to touch and hold level on finals in non standard conditions. Can often depend on the gyration swing and all else.
Rgds.
BTW, the 742 is a hard one to touch and hold level on finals in non standard conditions. Can often depend on the gyration swing and all else.
Rgds.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: MAN
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Topman..... What utter S
hite.
There is no justifying the total inadequacies of the Nigerians.
I can guarantee that there was no thought applied to the reasoning behind departing that aircraft ahead of the Lear.
Good point! (Damn beers!)
hite.There is no justifying the total inadequacies of the Nigerians.
I can guarantee that there was no thought applied to the reasoning behind departing that aircraft ahead of the Lear.
Good point! (Damn beers!)
Last edited by Dogma; 3rd Dec 2003 at 19:55.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: 59°45'36N 10°27'59E
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
During my basic ATCO training, I once worked as "blipdriver" in radar simulator for a bunch of licenced ATCO's from Ghana on "radar-refresher" training. Class D airspace if I remember correctly.
They routinely cleared outbound traffic to the same or higher level as inbound traffic, both routing over the SAME VOR! Needless to say it got really close.....all the time. Their explenation to the Santaclaus-looking (HUGE white beard
) swedish instructor was: "Allways clear Sky, they can see eachother" Cue non PC yelling bye Santa in the SIM room.
They routinely cleared outbound traffic to the same or higher level as inbound traffic, both routing over the SAME VOR! Needless to say it got really close.....all the time. Their explenation to the Santaclaus-looking (HUGE white beard
) swedish instructor was: "Allways clear Sky, they can see eachother" Cue non PC yelling bye Santa in the SIM room.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: the moon and beyond
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am interested to see who was PIC and what the CVR and FDR have to say. For one has flown into Lagos a GA was not uncommon due to the occasions when local wild animals got inside the airport perimeter, and if my memory serves me correct an L1011 burst a tyre on takeoff there b4, and many other rumours I have heard. Having parked a 742 there myself, I may say that the runway surfacing is(at least was) amongst the poorest in the world. What I would deem as serious "holes" in the surface. Generally the further down the 3900M runway you get the better the surface becomes though.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gone from the FL sun to the desert Oasis
Age: 60
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why are there not any photos of this incident yet?
Its been nearly a week and yet nothing in the media.
Anybody have a link to photos to verify the damage??
Its been nearly a week and yet nothing in the media.
Anybody have a link to photos to verify the damage??
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: All over Africa
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some Info...
Here is some info on the Hydro crash.
Sorry guys, no cowboy crew on this one and not a cowboy operator either...
Hydro WAS cleared to land on 19R - three times. Each time the crew requested confirmation, as they actually had the NOTAM and yes, they actually read it.
A/C landed and ran through some trenches dug across the rwy, damaging the nose gear and LH wing gear. Lost hydraulics and departed the rwy to the left, digging in the LH gear and dragging the LH engines into he ground.
At this stage there is no confirmation of whether the a/c will be recovered, as there is no confirmation of the cost to recover and repair. Just looking at all the old wrecks standing around, it would probably be cheaper (definitely easier) to take the insurance than to repair and recover.
All on board are alive and well, although a bit shaken.
Nigerian officials have prohibited any photographers from taking photos, make sense doesn't it. Apparently the ATC is missing and will probably never be found again.
Oh, by the way the language in Nigeria and Ghana is some form of English (Nigerish in Nigeria and Ghanish in Ghana). Takes some time getting used to.
Sorry guys, no cowboy crew on this one and not a cowboy operator either...
Hydro WAS cleared to land on 19R - three times. Each time the crew requested confirmation, as they actually had the NOTAM and yes, they actually read it.
A/C landed and ran through some trenches dug across the rwy, damaging the nose gear and LH wing gear. Lost hydraulics and departed the rwy to the left, digging in the LH gear and dragging the LH engines into he ground.
At this stage there is no confirmation of whether the a/c will be recovered, as there is no confirmation of the cost to recover and repair. Just looking at all the old wrecks standing around, it would probably be cheaper (definitely easier) to take the insurance than to repair and recover.
All on board are alive and well, although a bit shaken.
Nigerian officials have prohibited any photographers from taking photos, make sense doesn't it. Apparently the ATC is missing and will probably never be found again.
Oh, by the way the language in Nigeria and Ghana is some form of English (Nigerish in Nigeria and Ghanish in Ghana). Takes some time getting used to.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
posted 2nd December 2003 12:43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whats ATC standard in Nairobi? Is Jomo Kenyatta Airport well maintained such as:
Is there no Pot Holes on the taxiways?
Is the night lighting good at night?
Do you get sand blowing from Sudan which causes reduced vis?
Also do you get torrential rain on final in NBO?
Does anyobody know any threads they could kindly point me to to see Crash incidences in NBO.
Cheers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whats ATC standard in Nairobi? Is Jomo Kenyatta Airport well maintained such as:
Is there no Pot Holes on the taxiways?
Is the night lighting good at night?
Do you get sand blowing from Sudan which causes reduced vis?
Also do you get torrential rain on final in NBO?
Does anyobody know any threads they could kindly point me to to see Crash incidences in NBO.
Cheers
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
topman999, are you for real? Please explain how an aircraft holding at the holding point is an 'obstacle'? Because if you are right then just about every airport in the world has its approaches dangerously obstructed by obstacles on a daily basis.
I don't believe you've ever 'parked' a B742 anywhere near Lagos, except maybe in a Flight Sim or in your dreams.
If you had you'd know better.
I referred to just one incident...I said I'd seen many. Like the day the ATC radios failed for ten minutes. When they came back on air they'd completely lost the procedural picture (no radar ever worked there so nothing to fall back on). Instead of doing something logical, like directing aircraft into the hold and sorting them out there, the madman on the mike just issued everyone with whatever climb or descent clearance they requested.
We had two very near misses within 3 minutes of each other!
Nigeria is the pits and Lagos is the arse8ole of the aviation world. Don't try making pathetic excuses for them. I just thank Christ I got out alive.
I don't believe you've ever 'parked' a B742 anywhere near Lagos, except maybe in a Flight Sim or in your dreams.
If you had you'd know better.
I referred to just one incident...I said I'd seen many. Like the day the ATC radios failed for ten minutes. When they came back on air they'd completely lost the procedural picture (no radar ever worked there so nothing to fall back on). Instead of doing something logical, like directing aircraft into the hold and sorting them out there, the madman on the mike just issued everyone with whatever climb or descent clearance they requested.
We had two very near misses within 3 minutes of each other!
Nigeria is the pits and Lagos is the arse8ole of the aviation world. Don't try making pathetic excuses for them. I just thank Christ I got out alive.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: the moon and beyond
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maxalt,
According to you ever aircraft landing in the skies today is on an emergency landing than ! My post read that it is probably not ideal to have an aircraft waiting on the side taxiway next to the runway where that learjet was landing. It was a good choice to clear the departing traffic....and yes I have flown into Lagos b4.On more than one occasion actually.
According to you ever aircraft landing in the skies today is on an emergency landing than ! My post read that it is probably not ideal to have an aircraft waiting on the side taxiway next to the runway where that learjet was landing. It was a good choice to clear the departing traffic....and yes I have flown into Lagos b4.On more than one occasion actually.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ever aircraft landing in the skies today
This is a wind up.
Having castigated Dogma for his grammer you now post this gobbledygook?
Are you a Nigerian? Are you a Nigerian ATC'er perhaps?
It would explain everything.
P.S. "It was a good choice to clear the departing traffic.."
Oh Yeah? Not if you were in the Lear I guess.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: the moon and beyond
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maxalt - Why must you be so rude ? Perhaps you would have preferred if the 732 was cleared to line up and just hold on the runway. Iff the learjet was 2 miles out than there was no danger at all (hello !). Its common practice to get departing traffic while aircraft on 1 mile final. At 2 miles out the learjet was enough out to let the 732 leave. Safer all round and a good choice in my book.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting points all around folks.
Just for the record, I have never flown into LOS - nor would I particularly relish the prospect. Just too many "bad luck" stories. Ever heard the phrase there's no smoke without any fire? Also, isn't this the airport (LOS) that has notices posted at virtually every international airport around the world warning passengers that it's security is not up to par? I wonder why such a notice needs to be posted for the general public. And I wonder if they know about the conditions of the runeays/taxiways/ATC etc.
Sounds like a heap of trouble.
Keep safe and don't believe what they tell you....
Just for the record, I have never flown into LOS - nor would I particularly relish the prospect. Just too many "bad luck" stories. Ever heard the phrase there's no smoke without any fire? Also, isn't this the airport (LOS) that has notices posted at virtually every international airport around the world warning passengers that it's security is not up to par? I wonder why such a notice needs to be posted for the general public. And I wonder if they know about the conditions of the runeays/taxiways/ATC etc.
Sounds like a heap of trouble.
Keep safe and don't believe what they tell you....