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The trouble is keeping people honest.
if you are on a job where the letdown and winching are demanding/tricky/challenging then it is valid to claim those as trg stats (but not hours) since you were doing the job for real. However, if the job was easy peasy in simple conditions, it is disingenuous (but probably legal) to claim those stats against your training. The whole point of training is to make it challenging so that your skills are honed ready for the difficult rescue. Otherwise you are in the same boat as the 5 mins under the hood doing clearing turns as radar trg brigade. 'Train hard - fight easy' is an old adage but very appropriate to SARops. |
Sounds like train hard fight easy was not the daily mantra. Especially when you discover that the low hills behind the ‘Fr Ted house’ from the 90’s tv series are considered a valid area to conduct mountain flying training according to operations manuals (highest point 1129ft). Or conducting deck winching currency, day or night, to static tankers at anchor in estuaries. But relevant is the LLIF question, also radar letdowns and transits such as that which was central to this accident. How often, what rearcrew involvement if any given most are not trained as navigators at odds with UKSAR, plus the CRM question given evidence from the transcript of the PF also programming the FMS which is an instant red flag from any offshore or SAR operator elsewhere.
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Sounds very much like the 'box-ticking, make the stats look good' approach with little oversight or quality assurance.
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CHC preparing to take a hit?
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As the old saying goes - 'If you think flight safety is expensive, try having an accident and see what happens'.
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It's being reported by RTÉ that the AAIU is still working on the report into the loss of Rescue 116 and that the final version won't be published before March.
The Air Accident Investigation Unit says the extent of the inquiry into the fatal crash of Coast Guard Rescue Helicopter 116 means a final report on the matter will not be completed by the first anniversary of the incident. JAS |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10007890)
As the old saying goes - 'If you think flight safety is expensive, try having an accident and see what happens'.
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How quickly a year passes....
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If I read the above link correctly, it suggests that the IAA produced a database with certain terrain elements msssing in it? Did I just read that correctly?
It later emerged that the island was not included on the helicopter's onboard warning system due to missing navigational data on maps published by the Irish Aviation Authority. I must be missing the point here................................. |
Originally Posted by Thomas coupling
(Post 10085611)
If I read the above link correctly, it suggests that the IAA produced a database with certain terrain elements msssing in it? Did I just read that correctly?
So isn't it the IAA that are going to get the full weight of the law thrown at them for the cause of this accident and not CHC? I must be missing the point here................................. The data within them is subject to the limitations of the data gathering, reducing and storage algorithms. I feel the quoted statement is therefore a little misleading. |
I would hope so.
Because if the IAA are anything like our CAA, they will absolve themselves of all responsibility and distance themselves from any incriminations. |
I think it's misleading as, although the IAA ay be responsible for the aeronautical information on their charts, the actual topographical map will have come from Ordinance Survey Ireland. Where the digital database for the EGPWS comes from is unclear but, given that it will be the same as the Fixed Wing variants it is not a huge surprise that it does not have the level of detail that would include rocks in the sea. The greatest acuity is in the vicinity of airports.
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AAIU Interim Statement.
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Why is Blackrock island STILL missing from ordnance survey Ireland topographical data a year later?? You can see this on the geohive website.
The Island is accurately charted on old maps from centuries ago. But not on current maps from OSI. It's a bizarre situation and even more bizarre that it doesn't appear to have been rectified. Obviously there were many factors to this accident but I am surprised that the interim report makes hardly any mention of the charting issues. |
Rescue 116 items recovered from the Atlantic
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Originally Posted by Davey Emcee
(Post 10197815)
Txs Fixed Senior Pilot |
Almost 2 years now...
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The Link worked for me just now....
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Just noticed a minor update on March 1st.
Air Accident Investigation Unit Ireland Interim Statement --- 1 March 2019 Investigation into Accident involving S92A helicopter EI-ICR (R116)Black Rock, Co. Mayo on 14 March 2017As per International Convention, EU Regulation and domestic Law relating to accident investigation, it is required that, if the final report into an air accident investigation cannot be made public within 12 months, the Air Accident Investigation Unit shall release an Interim Statement at least at each anniversary of the accident or serious incident, detailing the progress of the investigation and any safety issued raised. Work on the preparation of a Draft Report is at an advanced stage. Rather than preparing another detailed Interim Statement, which would detract from the ongoing work of preparing the Draft Report, the Investigation is focussing its efforts on finalising the Draft Report. Once finalised, the Draft Report will be circulated, in confidence, to interested parties as soon as possible. Accordingly, a detailed Interim Statement is not being issued on the occasion of the second anniversary of this accident. -END- |
So a second interim statement saying that there won't be a second interim statement...................
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The Ministry of Funny Walks
So it’s like being compliant right up to the point when you choose not to be - kind of defeats the whole point of the process....... |
The AAIU is a small organisation that will have been stretched to its limits with this inquiry, although I know they will have given it their all.
It seems like what they've chosen to do is entirely sensible and justifiable, particularly if producing another interim bulletin would delay the final report. |
Heard a rumour that Irish SAR are looking for a quick-fix for NVG training - be interesting to see if they can find anyone with the requisite experience of recent SAR NVG and S92 time..
A few years ago a sadly departed colleague with plenty of NVG experience and instructional time was passed over to introduce NVG to Irish SAR because they wanted someone Irish to do it rather than someone who was qualified - hope they don't repeat that process. |
They’ve just had a very experienced S92 NVGI join and leave in a blink... LZ |
How recent would NVG experience need to be to be acceptable to instruct in civ sar world? I know unless in date you can’t be an IRI or TRI so would NVGI require currency? How recently experienced are those on offer or this person who didn’t hang around? The accident report will doubtless be damning, how well are they risk assessing NVG intro given the mess made of S92 intro and apparent contempt for the advice given and offered by experienced S92 SAR personnel to those who at the time were new to type? |
And are they just going to get a box-ticking basic NVG qualification or will they get someone who has actual SAR training and Ops experience??
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Box ticking was the order of the day for S92 intro wasn’t it? Mentioned here before that CRM was also a box ticking exercise as were some currency items. So probably given those responsible are all still in post. |
Crab
,, " they wanted someone Irish to do it rather than someone who was qualified."
That sentence might get me in trouble. But thanks anyway. Regards Cpt B |
BSU - should have clarified that the Irish guys put forward for the post had no instructional qualifications nor experience - they had just been in the company for longer - it wasn't a sneakily disguised Irish joke.:ok:
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I hear that the Irish CG has signed up for some NVG training - at last - but have the possible providers got any depth of NVG experience, especially in SAR NVG Ops?
Outside of present UK SAR, I know where all the depth of experience lies in that field but that doesn't seem to be where the contract is going. This is a rumour network after all.... |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10597242)
I hear that the Irish CG has signed up for some NVG training - at last - but have the possible providers got any depth of NVG experience, especially in SAR NVG Ops?
Outside of present UK SAR, I know where all the depth of experience lies in that field but that doesn't seem to be where the contract is going. This is a rumour network after all.... |
Originally Posted by norunway
(Post 10597725)
Crab, your right it’s not going to any of the experienced NVG providers. Any idea who was awarded the contact? or at least what their background is..... |
Helioperations I believe.
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So has this company any previous NVG training delivery? How many NVG experienced instructors do they have? Doesn’t look like many on their website. Was there a tender process, if not why not? Does another company not hold a contract for all SAR training globally for CHC? |
You would have thought asking Bristow would have been a logical choice since they have all the current SAR NVG experience on the same aircraft type.
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Hang on. Isn’t this the CHC Ireland who didn’t listen to the training and standards dept of CHC U.K. SAR when they got 92’s from there? And lack of lessons learned contributed to the source of this thread or so people have asserted and discussed at length. Would they be smart enough to ask for help with this? Sounds like they have but maybe kept it quiet hence there’s an apparent award to someone seemingly not experienced in the relevant area, has to be an inside job or sly envelope somewhere. Isn’t the chief pilot of helioperations on their website a former CHC employee? Was he CHC Ireland before that? |
Well sounds like the NVG training has already slipped into 2020. LZ |
Is this why helioperations have just bought 16 old uk mil seakings? Taking over Ireland SAR again while training the crews to use NVG�� |
Isn’t the chief pilot of helioperations on their website a former CHC employee? Was he CHC Ireland before that? |
He was CHC in between Bristow (where he started) but was continuously in Stornoway for years I think. |
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