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-   -   SAR S-92 Missing Ireland (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/592162-sar-s-92-missing-ireland.html)

Mitchaa 14th Mar 2017 07:51

SAR S-92 Missing Ireland
 
4 crew on board

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0314/85...mayo-incident/

Brom 14th Mar 2017 09:07

One found alive but condition reported as critical, three still missing.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0314/85...mayo-incident/

Just a spotter 14th Mar 2017 09:47

RTÉ is reporting that wreckage has been located near the last know location of the aircraft.

'Hopes fading' for missing Coast Guard crew

JAS

Heathrow Harry 14th Mar 2017 09:51

From BBC

One of four crew members from a missing coastguard helicopter has been rescued off the west coast of the Republic of Ireland.

The man is understood to be in a critical condition.

Those on board lost contact at about 01:00 local time on Tuesday.
Debris has been spotted in the water and a search by helicopters, an Aer Corps plane and local fishing boats is focusing six miles to the west of Black Sod in County Mayo.
The aircraft was providing cover for another coastguard helicopter on a mission when contact was lost.

'Rescue family' hit hard


The Irish coastguard's Sligo-based helicopter had been responding to a distress call from a crewman in need of medical attention on a UK fishing vessel.
A second coastguard helicopter from Dublin, R116, had been assisting in the operation, about 150km west of Eagle Island, when it went missing.
Conditions were described as good when the two pilots, a winch man and a winch operator lost contact on their final approach to a refuelling depot.
Declan Geoghegan from the Irish Coast Guard said the accident had hit the "rescue family" hard.
Image copyright Google Image caption Both helicopters refuelled at Blacksod "The Shannon-based helicopter spotted some debris in the water and the latest we have is that one crew member has been recovered in a critical condition," Mr Geoghegan told BBC Radio Foyle.
"We don't know what happened and obviously there will be an air accident investigation into it.
"We'll continue to search for the missing crew members until such time as we have recovered them and the flight recorder."
The Irish Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport expressed concern for the missing crew and their families.
"As the search for the Dublin-based helicopter R116 is currently under way I would like to express my sincere support and sympathies for all those involved," said Shane Ross.

Just a spotter 14th Mar 2017 09:58

The Irish Times provides a little more background on known events and reporting that Eugene Clonan, Acting Director of the Irish Coast Guard is pessimistic, hopefully that's premature.

Coast Guard ?not holding out much hope? as search continues for missing helicopter

JAS

Jwscud 14th Mar 2017 10:05

Thoughts with all connected to the operation and very much hoping that daylight brings more good news. Have seen and heard these guys on the radio many times when operating around Ireland.

El Bunto 14th Mar 2017 10:28

Callsigns are assigned to bases rather than the individual airframes, Rescue 116 being for Dublin and appears to have been most recently used by EI-ICR. Departed Dublin around 23:10 last night.

Air Corps CASA has left the scene and Rescue 115 has landed at Mayo hospital.

212man 14th Mar 2017 11:19


Air Corps CASA has left the scene and Rescue 115 has landed at Mayo hospital.
Do you have any FR24 (or similar) links? Would be interested to see the final flight path information of 116.

Just a spotter 14th Mar 2017 11:21

The Irish Times has picked up on the S92 tail rotor check in Jan. All 5 Irish Coast Guard machines were checked.

Helicopter involved in Mayo search operation checked for safety in January

JAS

Lude-og 14th Mar 2017 11:35


Originally Posted by 212man (Post 9705595)
Do you have any FR24 (or similar) links? Would be interested to see the final flight path information of 116.

Apologies if I am wrong with the details but this is what I have taken from the statements released so far:

It's my understanding that 116 went straight west offshore direct from Dublin to provide top cover for 118 and was on the way back to Blacksod to refuel but never made it.

I have a screenshot from flight radar showing both Helis at 00:43am but don't know how to post it.

TipCap 14th Mar 2017 11:52

As a former DCP of the SAR Flight in Shannon in the early 90's (S61N days), I send my heartfelt sympathies to all who are involved with this terrible accident.

It is something we lived with but always hoped it never happened.

TC

terminus mos 14th Mar 2017 11:57

Mitchaa



I understand the only safeguard in place is a bearing energy monitoring tool in the HUMS system.
Not exactly. HUMS download after each flight. Max 6 hours between downloads. 10 flying hour boroscope inspection. Some aircraft now getting temperature sensors on the bearing.

KernowHeli 14th Mar 2017 12:02

Here is the location that they are currently searching.

MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic

Here is Rescue 116 AIS profile, from which its last position and flight path can be found:
Vessel details for: SAR 250002899 (SAR Aircraft) - MMSI 250002899, Call Sign Registered in Ireland | AIS Marine Traffic

212man 14th Mar 2017 12:07


You can find out it's radar track here, although doesn't show you much with last data at 00:22 this morning across land. (Open on PC for a flight track, doesn't appear to work on mobile device)
It looks like the data does not relate to the accident aircraft and so maybe the registration is incorrect.

elro 14th Mar 2017 12:25

The below link is the atc of the accident aircraft lifting from Dublin. At 3m48s the captain takes departure instructions and states the aircraft is 'heavy with fuel' or something to that effect.
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ei...2017-2300Z.mp3

gribbs 14th Mar 2017 12:26

Terrible news; I was the base trainer in Shannon for several years in the early days on the '61 and this is devastating. Could we perhaps spare the guesswork and speculation until at least the names have been officially released? Thoughts are with those who have to continue SAR today.

El Bunto 14th Mar 2017 13:02

Air Corps CASA 253 has re-launched from Baldonnel, perhaps after a crew-change. Heading NW apparently for Achill Island area.

Duracell2000 14th Mar 2017 13:07

Can't say I am particularly looking forward to flying the S-92 over the next few days. Thoughts and prayers with the families - fingers crossed for some good news.
Would be good to get some information on what may have caused this, although with the aircraft in the water it will take some time.

mickjoebill 14th Mar 2017 13:07


The Sligo helicopter was sent to do the pick up of the injured crew while the Dublin crew was there to follow as a backup and keep communications as a safety measure.
Could someone flesh out the benefits and risk matrix on having a second helicopter involved?

Mickjoebill

mickjoebill 14th Mar 2017 13:17


Originally Posted by elro (Post 9705655)
The below link is the atc of the accident aircraft lifting from Dublin. At 3m48s the captain takes departure instructions and states the aircraft is 'heavy with fuel' or something to that effect.
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ei...2017-2300Z.mp3

He clarifies his preference of departure runway with the comment;

"We are quite heavy here with fuel"

Mickjoebill

Swiss Cheese 14th Mar 2017 13:36

Weather was poor at Blacksod last night. 116 had made contact for a refuel at the lighthouse. 116 apparently terminated the first approach and was in the process of attempting a second approach when contact was lost.

jimf671 14th Mar 2017 13:57

AIS shows it heading out beyond Black Rock before turning around and heading roughly back toward Blacksod before the signal disappears around Black Rock.

There was ADS-B and it shows the aircraft crossing the country and crossing the Ballycroy hills at 3500 feet. However, there does not appear to be ADS-B coverage at low level in the area of the accident, so things like altitude just prior to the accident is not available.

El Bunto 14th Mar 2017 14:00


There was ADS-B and it shows the aircraft crossing the country and crossing the Ballycroy hills at 3500 feet.
The CHC / ICG S92s are Mode-S only, the positions on FR24 / Planeplotter etc are MLAT guesstimates. At the time of introduciton there was no certified ADS-B transponder for the '92.

However they do broadcast GPS-derived position on AIS, which is not considered a safety-of-flight system.

SASless 14th Mar 2017 14:16

Folks....immediately speculating the Tail Rotor Bearing issue played a role in this is exceedingly premature and does not needs to be a part of this thread yet.

How about holding such comments and limiting such speculation to known facts like weather, mission issues, and most importantly status of the people on board the aircraft!

Is not the welfare of the crew, passengers if any, their families and friends the most important thing right now?

Mee3 14th Mar 2017 14:18

It is interesting to see someones head has a 180 turn when comes to his soft spot.

Apate 14th Mar 2017 14:52

My understanding of the Tail Rotor issue is that it results in effectively a 'fixed pitch' situation. It does not result in complete loss of tail rotor thrust.

Whilst this needs to be managed by the crew, it seems unlikely to be "potentially catastrophic".

Worst case being for it to happen approaching the hover over a helideck! (sound familiar?)

My thoughts are with those affected by this tragedy.

Apate 14th Mar 2017 15:14

Weather reports are difficult to come by, but Shannon reports 24 hours. It is not on the coast and some distance away, but does offer some indication of the kind of weather that might have been experienced:

METAR EINN 140430Z 25014KT 6000 -DZ SCT005 BKN007 11/11 Q1029
TEMPO 3000 BKN005=

ODEN 14th Mar 2017 15:19

NVD
 
Does anyone know if they operate with NVD?

Just a spotter 14th Mar 2017 15:37

Sad news

Coast Guard member rescued from helicopter crash dies

Ar dheis Dé go raibh a hanam


JAS

S92Head 14th Mar 2017 15:52

Thoughts are with all the crews/families at this tough time. Sad sad day in Ireland

Oldsarbouy 14th Mar 2017 16:24

Sad loss
 
SAR crews are a widespread but still a family community and the tragic loss of this crew will be felt by all. I was lucky in seeing out my 25 years on SAR with only minor incidents to look back on but I will never forget the comeraderie nor the friends who were taken from us. Sincere condolences to the families of those dedicated aircrew lost doing a vital job they all enjoyed.
I hope the investigation has an early result as it must be very worrying to those still flying in the role but in the S92 in particular and should stop any further unhelpful conjecture.

oscardog177 14th Mar 2017 16:29

Crewmember who was pulled out of sea has now passed away. Also named in the press. RIP

206Fan 14th Mar 2017 16:34

RIP DF. I remember her on the tv with the Waterford base on the 61s!

ec155 14th Mar 2017 17:12

Very, very sad news.
I remember Dara arriving in Aberdeen some 20 years ago to accumulate S61 time flying offshore, before returning to SAR in Ireland.
A lovely, friendly and obviously very capable lady to achieve the position and status she had reached.
Thoughts are with her family, the other crew members still missing and their respective families.
God Bless.

ectoraige 14th Mar 2017 17:18

Very sad news, the Coast Guard lost a volunteer member last September too. Thoughts with the families and colleagues of the crew.

Geoffersincornwall 14th Mar 2017 17:39

Dara flew as my copilot at Shannon 20 years ago. A lovely lass and very capable. A sad loss for all.

G.

yoland 14th Mar 2017 18:01

RIP Dara. A real lady and a true professional.

albatross 14th Mar 2017 18:15

Sad news indeed.

TorqueOfTheDevil 14th Mar 2017 18:22

Very sad news. RIP, and thoughts with those who remain.


Could someone flesh out the benefits and risk matrix on having a second helicopter involved?
Can't give you a matrix, but top cover is always nice to have when well out to sea for the reasons given. I think I'm right in saying that the RN used to send a chase aircraft routinely when the 1sts aircraft was heading out to sea. RAF SAR tended to use the Nimrod for long range jobs because it could get there quickly, pinpoint the vessel's location, drop stores a/r and stay on scene for ever. The risk in SAR is normally with the aircraft doing the winching (specifically, the winchman) so the top cover aircraft isn't generally exposed to any unusual risk.

El Bunto 14th Mar 2017 18:33

Top-cover for deep-water ICG ops is normally provided by an Air Corps CASA, for example: IAC CASA top-cover

I don't know why that wasn't the case last night unless it wasn't just top-cover but also SAR assistance. Edit: apparently this is a touchy subject, fixed-wing top-cover is less frequent than desired. When one heli accordingly has to support another it is technically Mutual Assistance in CHC / ICG lingo.

What particularly puzzles me is why the Dublin heli 116 was dispatched across the entire width of Ireland, thereby needing to refuel before proceeding on station, instead of the Sligo unit 118 which could have been on station far faster and then be back-filled by Dublin.


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