Send e-mail, describe what are your intentions....
I am quite sure you will be invited too :ok:

Hey guys

I wanted to shed more light on the Cabri G2 in the pacific. There are 2 Cabris already in Sydney and the dealership is open for endorsements and aircraft sales. 2 should arrive in Christchurch New Zealand in the next month or so. More information on the following websites

Cabri G2 now available through Pacific Aircraft Sales, New Zealand
Guimbal Cabri G2 Helicopter Dealer Australia

I so far have flown the Cabri 4 times and am up-most impressed with the Helicopter.

First of all, the helicopter gets hired out at the same rate as the R22. With only around 30 hours on the demonstrator and the aircraft being sold its hard to tell with complete serenity how much cheaper the Cabri G2 really is at this present moment. With this said I will put my entire worth on the table and bet that it will be miles cheaper the 300cbi, and 300c to run. The website that posted the running figures are far from the truth when it comes to owing an R22 or a H300cbi.

A little review of the controls:

About the stiff cyclic: I fount that the cabri has the sensitivity of R22 but the instant response you would get in a fully articulated system. The result a very quick, precise machine. (I suspect that a lot of the comments come from R22, R44 drivers who may not be used to operating the trim/forget to use it) I also would like to note that once you are trimmed out, the cyclic is perfect for maneuvering because all you need are "pressure movements" to change the attitude.

The collective is a nice change as well. The metal shiny grip is where you hold it, while the black throttle is left free to move. No more overspeeds due to students gripping too hard on the collective throttle. I doubt the Robinson R22 or the H300cbi figures incorporate those mishaps. Collective also does not raise or fall when let go to reach for the radios.

The mixture controls, magneto controls and the rotor break are above your head. Virtually eliminating the situation of accidentally pulling something you should not during the flight.

ELT controls are on the vertical panel in between the seats, again same deal here; really easy to reach, but hard to trip by accident.

The Sydney dealership currently has got one for sale for 400,000AUD and have got a listing on global plane search for the Ferrari Itallia yellow Cabri. 1hour in cabri is 500AUD.

Just my two cents worth to those who are interested.

Fly safe!

500 AUD for 1 hour in a Cabri = 535.35 U.S. dollars. That's a steep price tag if it is supposed to compete with said R22 or 300. Is this normal for Australia?

And the collective doesn't drop in a new 30hrs shiny R22 either :}

Yes. Going rate for R22 is around AUD500/hr incl. Instructor over here. CBi is the same, R44 is closer to $900

In all honesty its also to do with strong australian dollar. (Actually, very weak US dollar, but hey same difference) and price of oil directly affecting the price of shipping parts.

Well, when I have flown it the collective didnt feel like it has a crappy biro-pen type of spring used in the R22 but rather was held there firmly in place and didn't feel like it was prone to wear like the Collective spring in R22. But you are totally right in saying that only time will tell.

Hi there,

nothing new here since a while...
OK, let me show you a new version of the cockpit :

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/Twin.jpg

Remember this one : http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/296...ml#post5345571 ?

Well, what's new? Oh, yes, a dual glass panel!
The upper one is unchanged while the new lower one runs the GPS software.
They share a unique frame while beeing totally independant.
Also note on the console an integrated trackball with 6 (yes 6) buttons.
Left to the dual-screen, between the airspeed and the heading indicators, the attitude indicator is also a digital display. Included is a turn coordinator.

Last but not least, have a look at the pedals.
By pulling out of axis each of them, then moving forward or backwards the tiltable upper part, you adjust them to your size. Much simpler than adjusting your legs to the copter...
One size fits all!

Central S.

p.s. on the right side of the NAV screen, an USB socket enables loading of new charts or updated software.
Below this socket is a push-button for turning on the NAV equipment only, allowing the preparation -or transfer via USB- of a flight plan without exhausting the battery.
Power management includes all what you can think about, including auto-shutdown if you forget it.

Nice layout
Still not found any electronic wool though :E

Nice picture CentralS,
Is it the last model delivered to Germany ?

Yes, this is the last one delivered to Heli-Aviation.

Helicopter School - training and further training for pilots and crews*- Heli Aviation GmbH

C.S.

One can also get type trained in the Cabri here:

Helicopter Type Ratings | Northern Helicopters

So that's the sixth G2 in their fleet ?!

Well, this is what I heard about... Somewhat astonished, too. I don't track all of the helos.

What I'm sure of is that they recently ordered one more with the TwinScreen version of the dashboard. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif

C.S.

Hello cattletruck , Helicopter Transport and Training Sydney will answer you : Guimbal Cabri G2 Helicopter Dealer Australia

Cattletruck,

I agree.

It takes a while sometimes for manufacturers to spot what is "bleeding obvious" to some operators.

Cultural differences.

How many R22's in Oz came unstuck with "loose objects" in amongst the pedals? Read "empty shell cases".

A scoop before first presentation at Aero2012 in Friedrichshafen, some news pics:

Landscape:

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/FlyPad1.jpg

Portrait:

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/FlyPad2.jpg

Folded:

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/FlyPad3.jpg

The FlyPad dock can be mounted on both side of the dashboard. It includes a 2 Amp power supply and the 30-pin connector.

The TwinScreen and the iPad run the same software.

Fresh news here : http://www.guimbal.com/newsletters/e...rch%202012.pdf

and here : http://www.guimbal.com/nouveau/newsl...ars%202012.pdf

The next Cabri, which should be delivered in Friedrichshafen to a Danish operator, will be fitted with a TwinScreen and 2 FlyPad.

C.S.

.


Not a bad bit of kit - yer can do somethin like a snap roll in them (well thats what it felt like to me) and stay in one piece...:)

Tad pricey to be chasing the moo's with though - and what robby trained bush mechanic is going to know what to do with all them plastic parts..:ooh:






.

Any early impressions of this type since its launch?

So far, all pilots walked away on own feets, after crash!
:D

Can not imagine better refference....

haha - no I wasn't really referring to the accidents (I only tacked on my question to this thread having looked to see what the general impressions were).

Just wondered how it was to fly, service, run, etc...

Last report : PilotWeb

I've had an hour or so in the Cabri - its a really nice machine, you can chuck it around without the fear of low G etc. Start-up is also a lot quicker and safer (for the machine!) than the 22/44 - just dial in what you want and away it goes.
It also has a nice trim system which makes flying so much easier than the R22 - if you do it right you can let go of the cyclic and it'll fly straight and level. I wouldn't dream of doing that in an R22.
Can't wait for these to hit the second hand market.

My only criticism is a nasty vibration especially when coming to a hover - Bruno isn't 100% sure why, but he thinks its to do with the 3 blade M/R setup. Hopefully its an easy fix.

Power
 

I haven't had chance to fly one yet, but will over the next few weeks. Could anyone comment on power margins at MTOW compared to R22/R44.

CRAN

obviously from a safety point of view its too early for the type but i've been reading about R22/R44 accidents and does anyone have a view?? I was reading about a German R44 shunt (D-HFSD) and the report I saw doesn't actually come to much of a conclusion.

To me this aircraft is a big red herring, it may be nice to fly, but from a cost point of view it will not be able to compete with an R22. I have no idea how a training school will be able to make money from it.

Fluffy

Time will tell. From where I sit it makes a lot more sense than an R22.

Better, Faster, Cheaper - pick 2!

The R22 was NEVER designed as a training helicopter. Ask Frank.

I really hope it is a success. We need good new initiatives and healthy competition.

Agree it has been launched at a difficult time, and training schools will be nervous about such big capital costs and such a new product.

For someone going on to fly European helicopters it must make more sense than an R22. Although, IMO, the S.300C. is also worth the extra cost over the R22.

I am sorry have I missed something, how is this aircraft cheaper than the R22 !!!
And unfortunately ask yourself one question, why is the R22 the training aircraft......... Because it is far more cost effective, that is how training schools are able to make some small amount of money, the r22 was not meant to be a basic trainer, but due to fact of financial constraints it has been the most popular trainer for the last 20years.....

Fluffy

Helicentre Aviation have just got themselves a G2!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...38283934_n.jpg

fluffy,

NO finite lifed parts (throw most of an R22 away at 2200)

NO 2200 hour overhaul

NO calendar overhaul

The above run to about USD 130K not including paint and interior refurb.

Granted the capital cost is higher yet the DOC's are lower. And the way interest rates are what's the difference.

Luggage space - the R22 does have space under the seats with the proviso that you should only place objects in there that you would not mind passing through your sphincter.

Safe flight on windy days.

Pop outs - which can be removed/refitted by the pilot as operations require.

Removable and stowable dual controls.

Air conditioning - in the works.

Autorotation capabilities where the student might actually learn something.

If you stand back and look at the helicopters available with a Lyco 4 banger there is now more choice.

Crashworthiness.

Its not ugly.

"Price is what you pay, value is what you get"

fluffy : "I have no idea how a training school will be able to make money from it."

Hello, you should ask Heli Aviation in Germany for instance, maybe they could answer you : they've got six Cabri G2 for their training academy !
.

RVDT, one other advantage should be corrosion resistance. Too early to tell though.

From a student point of view, who will once passed continue on their own in the model that they did their PPL, it just doesn't punish mistakes in the savage way an R22 would. Its almost inevitable that a low time pilot will make some mistake - as any pilot of any experience might for that matter.

Well you lovers of this aircraft mark my words, in a few years time the nasty little problems will emerge due to unforeseen maintenanace issues of a new airframe on the market, and with students clanking it down on the ground, and then you will see how expensive it will be to rectify.
I will shut up for now, but I will revive this thread and laugh whole heartedly when the time comes.
Just to get a few in for now .......:} :} :}

Fluffy

fluffy,

Well noted.

Back when I first flew the R22 in 1981 after coming from the H300, similar things were said.

Those were the days before "tip weighted" blades. Auto's were an eye-watering experience.

Went back to the H300.

The Cabri is not that "new" as it first flew in 1992 and a Type Cert was issued in 2007.

http://www.aviastar.org/foto/guimbal_cabri.jpg

Franks philosophy was "low acquisition and operating costs".

And Bruno obviously has a different idea and has addressed a few of the shortcomings of the R22.

Fluf like you suggest the real cost will emerge in coming years but really unless it becomes so huge that you get toward turbine cost it won't matter.

There are so many people that won't entertain light helicopters because the safety is referenced off the R22 - and rightly or wrongly that is seen as very negative.

None of these machines are especially cheap however and outside of the training establishments the private owner is likely to reach the limit of an R22 by way of time passed idle than time in use.

Outside of that the capability of the G2 is vastly superior to the R22 - I'd not like to be sat in an R22 in a stall turn for example.

If this aircraft handles like a baby AS350 it will be a great transition aircraft for its turbine brother. I can't Imagine it beig as hard to land when one up as the aforementioned type!

Regards MF26

... and in the meantime at least the Cabri pilot is able to count the cost.. this is all too frequent with the R22 isn't it?

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/494...wn-france.html

ok there are a greater number of R22's but these accidents hardly ever seem to have a satisfactory explaination.

not for me
 

There are definitely not enough flying Cabris to make statistics. You can't say it's not a new aircraft because one or two have been flying in the 90s'...
When these people will move from amateur to industrial scale, meaning they start producing more than few pieces a year, we will be able to make decision. Until then, I am not qualified to be a test pilot...

Hello VinceWS and welcome,

First message and already insulting, that's your choice.

You feel safer in an R22 because a lot have been produced, that's your choice.

But about the facts : first delivery in 2009 and by the end of the year, there will be 50 aircraft flying. Can we say that 50 build in 3 years is amateur ? well, you know what? that's quite the same figures than Bell and their 429 !

Do we have to be insulting and think that Bell are amateurs ? :rolleyes:

I don't think so, but that's only my choice ...
.

let's forget the polemics
 

You cannot compare the Robinson22 and the Guimbal Cabri2... one was conceived as a cheap machine for the private market and found itself a training machine by "accident" (SIC!!!), the other was conceived from the start as a trainer and with safety and longevity in mind (crash tested seats, safe autorotations, corrosion proof... etc...) Nevertheless, I do not have any experience in any of them but know I would never consider flying a Robby myself or let my family ride in one of them, maybe I am being irrational?...