2nd "locked" Cabri PDF
 

For anyone who wants to get the gist of the second PDF article I have managed to get it through Babelfish and tidy it up a bit.

I truly hope that I do not anger Bruno Guimbal or tread on any toes by doing this := but I found that it answers many folks questions and I hope it helps. Now I'm just hoping my lottery number comes up or my inheritance arrives early and my order would be in!:cool:

Enjoy.


The concept of Bruno Guimbal is simple: it is to propose a light helicopter for two people, powered by a piston engine. Needless to say that the project of the CABRI aims at the same market as R22 of Robinson.

Bruno Guimbal was Born in 1959 of a family of engineers. Bruno Guimbal révait since its more tightening enfrance to become... engineer! Impassioned by mechanics, he was a turner-milling machine operator in shorts at 8 years age. At 15 years, He passed its CAPE of draftsman thanks to courses of the evening. It should be said that the young Bruno had continuation in the ideas. A baptism of the air at 18 years gave him in more passion of the air. By looking at the various planes on the market, its choice was quickly made: Bruno was going to build Vari Eze. It was also the first Vari Eze in France. The financing was not easy matter to achieve, but while working hard, the purchase of the engine became possible. Not having finances to buy the undercariage. Bruno turned himself the wheels and the brakes. It is this plane which changed his life definitively. 1 ' 200 hdv with the orders of its plane throughout the world, a splendid experiment and the beginning of a friendship with Burt Rutan, genius of aerodynamics. Then arrived time to grow. Various aeronautical schools, the discovery of the world of the aerofoils

Revolving then, at the end of his studies with I' Ensam, a training course at Aerospace. We are in 1981 and it is the insane time of the modern rotors. Returning train dolphin, Squirrel; the world of the helicopter is in effervescence. As an assistant chief of the project EC-120, Bruno GuimbaI becomes a specialist in the light helicopter. In 2000, Bruno is a chief of the service of flight controls when he decides to leave Eurocopter.

The company has ete creee with a blow of inch of Eurocopter bus the former employer had allowed has Bruno Guimbal the benefit of access to certain information. This close collaboration with Eurocopter consortium is a pledge of credibility for the young company. Today, Guimbal Helicopters and Eurocopter are partners in the undertaking. Vertivision, a firm which has like vocation to manufacture a helico drone. But it is not in so far as Bruno plays the military chart to finance the civil project. The financing of Helicopters Guimbal east ensures parses proper sums of money, the support of its family as some friends engineers who do not have hesitate has to invest their economies in the project. The fact of having gains prices well equip as the contest of the creator of company of high technology him A gives a certain financial autonomy. Also let us note like shareholder a subsidiary company of the Agricultural credit, which takes part in a strategy of capital risks. All that made it possible to raise four million to develop and debut the construction of a light helicopter for two people, the CABRI. Currently, Helicopteres Guimbal is located on the aerodrome of Aix-the-Miles in the Mouth-of-Rhone, a quiet ground in Provence that military and civil divide in good co-operation. The young company employs 11 people and works in collaboration with many external partners.

The analysis of the history of the helicopters can resume in a few words. All started in 1947 with the setting on the market of Bell 47. Twenty years later, Hughes 300 gained an immense slice of US Army; it was the second of the band. The latest to date is Robinson R22. Since the first delivery in 1979, more than 25 years are ecoules. But one always speaks about a modern and economic machine. It is thus rather obvious that a helicopter built with current knowledge and by using technologies of the third millenium will be a product superior. But this superior theory is far from guaranteeing successes of the project. The preserving medium of aviation etant by definition, of many futuristic projects are balances by a cooking failure. Remember the Starship of Beechcraft, moreover draws by Burt Rutan and cense releguer has scrap family of King Air don' T the origin goes up at the Fifties. But in the same category there are also "happy end", as proves Piaggio with its Avanti, same if the premieres years of the child were particularly painful. In lemonde of the revolving aerofoils, This toire is much less rich. Same if giants like Bell or Eurocopter sometimes succeeded has to impose little successful machines, it is necessary recognize that the law of walk will not allow any error has Bruno Guimbal and his accomplices. But do you recall, Frank Robinson succeeded well, then why not Bruno Guimbal? The CABRI wants to be innovative on many points. One of the priorities relates to technology. For this reason, two decades at Eurocopter have leaves deep marks in the spirit of Bruno Guimbal. Why change a horse which gains? one would be tries to ask by making a first turn of the CABRI, principal Rotor, anti-torque rotor, massive use of composites; a certain similarity with the concept of the EC-120 is not has to deny. But the more we turn around the CABRI, the more we will discover the machine and the more us sums impress. For this quest of the technological reasoning, Bruno seems close to the vision of the perfect genie. If the aircraft flies as well in the airs as on the drawing, the CABRI promises! But we have another vision immediately. Bruno Guimbal seems to think of all, not forgetting any preoccupation of the purchasers and users constituting the target of a light helicopter for two people. it is enough to look at the poignees doors or to note with which facilitates the flight controls demount themselves: it is obvious that gargon A really thinks has all! Moreover, at the time of our report, Bruno has watch to us certain functionalities of the machine which are quite simply revolutionary.

Some of these details do not only have for purpose that of improving comfort, but it is well what the customers seek! Any Renault CLIO now has ABS and electric windows, but on the level comfort, the planes and helicopters nowadays are reminders on the level of Renault Gordini. When Guimbal devoilera the final grinding of the CABRI, the other manufacturers, had including, will be well warn to take as a starting point this philosophy! Comfort and advanced technology are used, thus veiled already two points of the CABRI concept. Third the field of the flight concerns. But on this subject, we can only take note of the enthusiastic declarations of its manufacturer, because in the current state of the project it does not have us possible yet to proceed has a flight test. The fourth shutter of importance relates to safety. Indeed, I acknowledge not to be tent to test a crash landing has edge of Bell 47, of an Alouette nor of a Squirrel. Passive safety is a notion absent of the dictionary of the old machines, same if certain exceptions exist. Indeed, Hughes 300 become Schweizer gets a level of safety enough eleve. But at all events, the new standards CS 27 which regulate the resistance to lightning, the anti-crash sieges as the anti-crash fuel system impose a degree of safety which would make impossible to certify the current machines nowadays, including R44 of Robinson. The EC120 has been the first light helicopter certifies according to these new standards. It is thus as much by conviction that by obligation which the CABRI wants to be like machine extremement sour

Anti-crash
The CABRI has passed with brilliance the tests of certification of the anti-crash sieges and the adjacent structure in accordance with standards EASACS-27 and FAR 27. These very difficult tests have been realises on bench-catapults specialise Millbrook company, close to Luton (the U.K.), under the control of the EASA. Customs include/understand a shooting incline towards the front, of 19 G, and a shooting to the bottom, of 30 G Are measurements the efforts in seat belts, in the spinal column, and the impacts on the tete; all are satisfactory, with a margin ranging between 15 and 50 %. Cesucces eta it a eta EP extremely important for the programme of certification of the CABRI, because it made it possible to validate essential the architecture and the structure of the apparatus. The anti-crash structure constitutes one of the principal technical challenges of the program. It made the object of a help of the Management of the Programs of research to improve safety. While making survival possible has vertical speeds of 2' 000 ft/min., which is well a superior has speed in autorotation, this present technology an important potential of improvement of safety. The CABRI G2 will be done the very first helicopter has pistons has to satisfy the new standards.

Technology 2OO6
The rotor is has I' helicopter what is I' wing is has I' plane. But contrary the aerofoil has fixes, the generation of the bearing pressure is a quite complex business. Often, one speaks about profile and the celebre series of the NACA is known of each one. And it is true that according to the profile uses, behaviour in flight of a plane east modifies. That is worth of course also for the helico, but to use such or such profile is only one of the many parameters which make that a rotor functions or not. In the case of the CABRI, Guimbal started from a profile ONERA which it A modifies to hold specific account of the needs for the CABRI. We are in presence of composite blades of latest generation, without time limit of life. An autorotation character largely contributing has the safety of a helicopter: Helicopteres Guimbal has chosen a rotor with an inertia 40 % higher than the requirements of 1' armee americaine, always very concerned of the life of the servant boys. The figures indicate a double inertia of that of R22. That comes on all from an important steel ballast at the end of each blade. Faithful to its origins in Eurocopter, Bruno Guimbal has chosen a three-bladed rotor on tete semi-rigid rotor on butees spherical. We can done await us has a machine of good a manoeuvrability and a good aptitude for turbulences. The shock absorbers of trainee are signs Lord. As a whole, the principal rotor of the CABRI strongly resembles has that of the EC120 of Eurocopter, a reference. It is thus not surprising to note that the rotor arriere resembles has y meprendre has a Small window. This anti-torque rotor carene contains 7 symmetric blades of an entirely new technology. The choice of a symmetric solution makes it possible to reduce the weight, knowing that the noise of the RAC is not a problem for a so small machine. Let us note has cetitre that principal sound emission comes from echappement. This last setrouve done turns upwards: it is bete like hello, but effective sacrament. All the beam arriere is a unit mono block weighing only 7 kg. Of visu, derive the arriere shows a small size. Thus, the sensitivity to the cross wind in work ground should be reduced and a test in flight will inform about stability in lace once I' apparatus stabilizes of cruising speed. Bruno Guimbal indicates that it is possible to release the swing bar in hover: that promises and desire gives me for turning over has Aix-en-Provence. this Fenestron imitation especially developed for the CABRI has besides ete brevete within the framework of the agreements between Guimbal and Eurocopter. The transmission arriere is conventional, as besides limps it of transmission arrierre. The BTP is like any other part entirely chosen by Guimbal. All the major parts are fabriquees from ebauches forgees. For entrainer all that, Bruno Guimbal east turns to Lycoming 0-360 of 180 cv detare for the needs for the CABRI has 145 cv, which should ensure an excellent reliability. The choice of the good Lyco old man was not done by conviction, but quite simply because it is the best compromise available to date on the market. Useless of preciser that Bruno remains more than attentive with the development of the diesel engines, of which of breux name concepts are more than promising. Another promising way could be in the concept of new the minis turbines under development at several companies, like Pricelnductionen France, it is certain that the future passes by an engine turning to the Jet-A1, but for the moment, us so mines in 2006 and the venerable Lyco is the only reasonable choice, especially in term of reliability. Yes, you read well, it is indeed of one 0-360 and not a IO 360. Does Done not of injection have edge of a helico which wants to be avant-gardist? ! Bruno delivers his mink to us: On a rustic engine like Lycoming, an injection does not bring anything. Remember that the injection of an engine aviation uses a rudimentary technology and n;a nothing has to see with the complex systems of the modern automobile world. Thus, the carburettor Facet of the 0-360 does not consume more, is not less reliable but pese much less heavy and coute as less expensive as a solution has injection. Remain the foutu problem of carburizing icing. For this reason, it is very important to know that the engine of a helicopter, contrary has that of a plane, east couples has a free wheel. Thus not of inertia in the event of icing carbu like that procuree by the propeller of a plane! When ga frosts, the dry engine arrete and it is useless of preciser "Ca does not do it" has edge of a helico, to take again an expression of our youth. But Bruno would not be Guimbal if our Trouvetout did not have invents a parade has this report little rejouissant. Thus, the CABRI is equipped with an automatic system advance certifies which prevents carburizing icing. In same optics, the engine of the CABRI is equipe of a lighting electronic which is the STC object. As already evoque, I' echappement style chimney of boat makes it possible to lower the noise level in a spectacular way. Like all large the idees, it is simple like hello, but still was necessary it to think of it. It goes without saying the regulation of the power is done by a governor: those which have pilot a Robinson apprecient the system which automates the admission has the instar of the regulator of a turbine. The flight controls are not only parts nice to use, but once more precise in the detail. Thus, the friction of the collective pitch is positioned so as to allow its operation without releasing controls. Another easy way per puts demount the controls of flight in two movements. Click-clac, it is removed, folds and arranges in a small trunk: it is magic! The electric circuit is has 12 V. A light solution and well adapted with the requirements in energy for a light helicopter and, as said it has right title Frank Robinson: "When my car will be 24 V, my helicopter will be..." the central dashboard holds a semi-traditional avionics. Standard racks per put to mount radios of the type Bendix/King Silver Crown or Garmin. Airspeed indicator, variometre and altimeter traditional frame a beautiful screen LCD of 130 X 98 mm. This MFD containing flagstone stamps activates has high luminosity gathers the parameters engine and other indications for the control of the helicopter.

Performances
With Vne of 120 kts, the CABRI is weapon for constant descents. To 100 % of the continuous maximum power, the cruising speed will be of 100 kts and always of 90 kts has 85 % of the power. Bruno Guimbal speaks about a very weak ecart, independamment of the weight. The maximum mass is fixed A 700 kg and the evoque manufacturer a tare weight of 430 kg. Question about the ceiling in hover, Bruno says that the CABRI will have performances honnetes, my is not exceptional because the aerofoil privilegie safety with good performances in autorotation and normal flight.

Finances
Currently, the selling price aims of a CABRI is has 240' 000? HT. Does by way of comparison, the importer of Robinson indicate 190' 000? for do R22 and Sat-Heli invoice 250' 000? if you wish to acquire Schweizer 300 CBi. Like always, our articles suppose the monetary parite between the green bill and the euro, thus adjust according to the rate of exchange at the time of the purchase. But the purchase price is only one criterion in the cost of a aeronef. Maintenance, the potentials like possible butees calendar and the price of the sets mecanic are all of the factors entering final calculation. The engine of the CABRI has emblee of a potential of 2' 000 H, it is traditional. The sets mecanic are Ca leu for TBO between 3' 000 and 4' 000. Let us take the example of one limps of principal transmission: at Guimbal, the TBO is of 3' 000 h. Actuellement, the manufacturer is not able to indicate a price for a general revision. But Bruno Guimbal wishes to propose tariffs which will not depasseront those of R22. For current maintenance, draining engine is always has 50 H, but the premiere intervention on the helico is made seulementa 200 h. Notons also that currently, Helicopteres Guimbal is not yet prononcee about the butees calendar. II remainder has esperer that the CABRI will echappera has this French speciality which wants that a unit mecanic is good for revision generate at the end of 12 years, it does not matter the hours with the meter. Schweizer, Enstrom, Bell and the others prove decencies since that it is completely coherent to reason only of numbers of hours, a very important vision for the private individual who He steals qn' per annum a hundred hours. Private individual? Yes, the CABRI is not only a helico for the flying school. With its tank of 170 L which allows a 5 hour endurance and a reel trunk has luggage which swallows two bags cabin with the standard Air France like two beautiful satchels, the CABRI allows beautiful weekends has two.

For when?
With the present stage of the things, Bruno Guimbal espere to be able to certify the CABRI during second half of the year of this A nnee. The company considers a rate of initial manufacture of a machine per week. Manufacture owes F anger has Aix the-Miles oil the beautiful ones and old workshops of the air base have libere a surface of 2000 m2. The company is under discussion avancee with several serieux customers who have proclamation their interest to become distributors of the CABRI. Maintenance will be effectuee by workshops agrees, but the modalites of approval must still be definies. It is done a very beautiful adventure which is likely now very good to succeed. Frank Robinson A proves soon thirty years ago qu II is completely possible of revo-lutionner the field of the light helicopters. We already took go with Bruno Guimbal to follow revolution of its beautiful adventure. We would be happy of soon being able to announce other good news to you. Then remain has I' ecoute

Your efforts are greatly appreciated, thank you.

Why not? Obvious : there is not ANY 100kW turbine available for that kind of job.

Thanks, Flyin'ematlast - interesting article. I wish Bruno Guimbal the best of luck with this well thought out design.

Quote:
Why not? Obvious : there is not ANY 100kW turbine available for that kind of job.

I believe there is and it doesn't have to be complicated either.
Simple = reliable.....and oh my look at the price! These are priced to compete with Lycoming in the light GA market.Maintenance requires an oil change every 500 hrs, Spark plugs every 1000hrs,and a non disassembled turbine visual every year.They even guarantee an overhaul in their factory at less than a third of the engines purchase price.
Why wouldn't you go this way?

http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/products.html

Because they're not certified?

The size of a turbine goes hand in hand with it's efficiency in general. Smaller turbines generally use more fuel to provide a given amount of power, because the tolerances become so important cost of production is increased. Another factor is rpm, the smaller it is the faster it has to turn. On the extreme side of things model turbines can spin over 140,000rpm :8. That kind of Rpm requires bearing replacement frequently (don't remember the specific time frame).

Are you kidding?

Have a look at the FAQ :

"When will the Turbines be available?
We expect to begin delivering production Turbines during the fourth quarter of 2007, with consistent production and deliveries beginning in 2008. We are currently performing ground and flight-testing on the Turbines and Firewall Forward kits. While we are anxious to see our turbines flying in as many aircraft as possible, we are reluctant to rush sales and delivery until we have conducted sufficient tests to assure ourselves that the performance and reliability are what we expect."

The Cabri has already got its certification. The engine had to be choosen at the beginning of the design process, not now when people are asking "why not a turbine?".

Good dreams till the next version.

Turbine?
 

I notice that the Innodyne site describes the turbines as being for "experimental" aircraft and so I assume that they have no intention of getting them certified. The site also makes no mention at all of heli's.

This is a great shame as a Cabri with a 165 HP turbine would be a fantastic machine (and with the large fuel capacity it would have a reasonable endurance even with a turbine).

I would not be surprised to see G2's in the USA fitted with turbines in 10 years time and run under the experimental category (would give the JetExec's a shock :cool:).

Ian.

First new two-seat piston helo in Europe for decades
 

The "frogs", as you say, have designed a bilingual equipment.
Imperial units are also available : I suppose that you'll prefer gallons, p.s.i. and other 'antique' units!

Anyway, the display is now totally different : that picture is an early version. Also, there is now a fifth button for fuel management on the right side.

Bruno Guibal's G2
 

Bruno's G2 is a good looking ship, and will be available with many new features.

Plasma ignition, all composite airframe, ditto rotor blades, no finite parts anywhere, other than the Lycoming 0-360 J2A series engine. (delivers 145 bhp) Automatic carb heat control, rrpm band from 450 to 620, fenestron 7 blade T/R system, 700 Kg MAUW, VNE 130 knots, 171 litres fuel capacity which can give five hours endurance, 35 litres an hour, glass instrument presentation with conventional back up on the vital figures, 20 Kg per pax luggage locker, great rotor inertia with a possible two second delay for lever down following power failure, fly and forget rrpm co-relation and a fluffy tuft of wool as a balance aid.

EASA certified on 14th December 2007.

Read February issue of LOOP for my full air test and a dozen on site pictures.

Best wishes to you all,

Dennis Kenyon.

DennisK,

Are you THE Dennis Kenyon who did the 300c Aerobatics? Wow, way cool. Nice to know you.

:}

Monk

Loop review of the Cabri G2
 

Dennis

Thanks for letting us all know about the first proper review of the Cabri. It reads as though you liked it alot.

Having only flown R22 and R44 to date I can't wait to get a chance to fly one. I will have to be arrange an hour's "training" in one with the french company who have ordered the first production machines if I can.

What are your thoughts now you've had time to think on it?

Thanks

Ian.

Is it me, or does it look really small (think jabiru in the fixed wing world, for those who know what one is) Is that gear really far enough apart

The R22 is Dead, long live the new G2 !
 

DennisK - great detailed article.

With a Vne of 130kts, proper luggage space, modern electric gizmos and if the price is right, then this could be the future of trainers/ personal helicopters.

And he even talks about a "bigger one, including a 4 seater one day" and in my view , the obvious name for that would be a G4 !!! If people train up on a G2 then the chances are they'll want to upgrade to a G4 and not a R44! This would be healthy competition for Frank but as the G2 hasn't got into full production yet, the G4 would be years away.

I wish Bruno all the best in being successful in this venture.

CF

Some lightspeed relief...
 

I thought the Plasma Ignition system was worth some investigation (Thanks, Dennis):

http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/

Being a trade name for electronic ignition, it's not quite the system i thought it was though:

http://www.plasmacombustion.com/

It seems like only yesterday that i was reading about lasers improving combustion performance. Expect a revolution in diesel engine power-to-mass when this becomes widespread.

Expect various exhaust heat recapture devices to hit the market at some point too:

http://bingofuel.online.fr/bingofuel/index.htm

This one works by reusing the exhaust heat to convert a fuel/water emulsion into a hydrogen/oxygen rich fuel. Pity it is tainted by the "free energy" garbage, as it is actually a sound concept. The exhaust heat energy just goes into overcoming the H2O chemical bonds - no mystical effect there. :rolleyes:

Eurocopter buys helicopters!
 

For the first time ever, Eurocopter buys helicopters.

Last week, Eurocopter's CEO has visited Hélicoptères Guimbal's new facility and both parties have signed a contract on providing EC's training centers with Cabri G2.
They also signed a firm order for the first helicopter to be delivered this year to the Kassel center in Germany.

Me wonders if they are contemplating buying design rights or a manufacturing licence. Why not, it is a good design and would benefit from ECs customer sales/support network...

Don't write off the R22 just yet
 

Reports of the R22's demise may be premature. A reasonably equipped new
R22 will cost around $250k + shipping, say around £140,000 to fly away in the UK. A new G2 Cabri has a list price of €249,000 or £184,000+

Not at all. They are not in any way interested by manufacturing such a small helicopter : it would cost twice!

They simply need a safe, reliable, modern and low cost machine that behaves like an EC for teaching debutants ab initio.
And the Cabri does it.

G2 going on G4 !
 

Bruno Guimbal's Cabri.

EC are very obliquely involved with Monsieur Guimbal's new machine. Yes it is a smaller ship even than R22, but the cabin size is similar but wider. Conventional cyclic and the only reserve I had was the heavier than expected controls.

Still, as an instructor, I teach off the standard beam with the even heavier Enstrom models.

Royal Air Force teaching. Change .. Check .. Adjust .. Trim.

Once the G2 arrives in the schools, I'd suggest instructors teach leading with trim. (horror of horrors I know!) But they don't fly 74s manually and trim later.

In any case Monsieur Guimbal may be working on lightening up the cyclic.

A 40 Kg Luggage locker is standard and the crew's bum are a sensible distance from the point of impact.

Also a very expensive F1 style rubber fuel tank that doesn't tear when impacted. Lots and lots of safety goodies like that. M/R head and blades subjected to 200,000 events for certification.

I liked the G2, mainly because I feel ... like the R22 did, it will further the ab initio market for everyones benefit.

It is a sharp handler, but I don't think Bruno has any plans to let me display his pet baby.

For those that aren't LOOP readers, the Feb issue has our air test report which will answer most questions above. All can get on the distribution list.

Just log on to: www.loop.aero ... and its free. Currently circulating 25,000 copies to a dedicated audience. Overseas ... they will ask you to pay postage only.

Best wishes all,

dennis Kenyon.

Fantastic news
 

It looks and must be a fantastic heli....

as an FI i would prefer this to the R22!!! Lets see if UK schools will trust it in the near future.

We must move forward, helis like this must me supported!!!

The price difference looks small if you consider what you're buying..

It is like comparing the EC120 with the 206...hence Bell stoped the production now!!!

Could that be the end of the R22:confused:hhhhhmmmmm

This chap's story reminds me of Frank Robinson's success story....

Only time will tell, can't wait to fly one of this now:E

another goat?
 

Great article, once I got used to reading through a letterbox slot. So cabri is french for goat & the turbine R44 is a goat too, what is it with these manufacturers?
Wonder if the 'on condition' nature of cabri maintenance will make it cheaper than an R22 over the 12 year cycle of the latter?
So is someone going to organise a pic of the Cabri against the background of that new 'bridge in the sky' the frogs have bulit themselves?

As much as it looks like a great little heli and possibly a better trainer than the R22 I can't see it really catching on until it is as cheap to buy and run as the R22. Cost to the punter rules the training market. The only reason people choose the R22 over the R44 to do their licence is due to cost. Everyone knows the R44 is a much better heli but when their PPL is going to cost £8,000 more, people always choose the R22, unless they are stinking rich and planning to buy an R44.

Hi Guys

I'm a PPL(H) trainee, nearing completion, read the boards quite a lot, but wanted to contribute to this one.

Having flown an R22, plenty of EOL's... some quite bumpy, sadly upset by the lack of goodies (glass), range, speed, and other shallow matters like that one. I'm very interested in this machine, for one if Dennis and the Gumibal's claims are true, this is a safer machine - more time to get the lever down makes safer low hrs pilots, and smoother less damaging landings. The glass is very cool and reduces pilot load, and the more advanced fenestron and head make it a better trainer if you are ever looking into the bigger 120's etc

I like it, and I think that it's popularity vs. the R22 will come down to a combination of the above and the cost. The cost of cousre will depend on a number of factors, insurance (possibly safer), Fuel consumption with that new gadgety plasma thingy and auto carb heater and light weight, resale - which I imagine will be much slower than the R22's.

I for one hope, and allmost imagine that you will be cost neutral / minimal. If I'd have been given the choice at say £10-£20 per hour more... I'd have probably done it.... More intertia in the head, is a very good thing.

Having said that, I don't regret a minute in the 22, can't wait to finish and get involved in some type conversions though. 44 next

I do very much like the idea of it getting a mini jet engine though ;-)

"more time to get the lever down makes safer low hrs pilots,"

Why is everyone hung up on how long it takes to get the lever down in an R22? Weather, hitting things (the ground, fence posts, trees etc), lack of fuel, lack of carb-heat, lack of power (eg too heavy, downwind), and bad-decision making make up the majority of small helicopter accidents.

Sorry to wake you up manfromuncle... maybe I should have said:

More inertia in the blades allows more time than an R22 does to sucessfully enter autorotaion, whilst the practice of quick decision in the R22 is valuable experience, the extra time in the G2 may allow more sucessful decisions to enter auto, of course this is only one aspect of safe flying a heli and pilots should allways considder "Weather, hitting things (the ground, fence posts, trees etc), lack of fuel, lack of carb-heat, lack of power (eg too heavy, downwind), and bad-decision making make up the majority of small helicopter accidents"

Of course the G2 also has auto carb heat, so that's something I'm glad you pointed out.

Many appologies.

Also missed the fact that the G2 has digital fuel computer. It tells you burn rates and time left. Another possible R22 vs safety feature.

Thanks for making these points manfromuncle

Yes, auto carb heat sounds good. Much better than the carb-heat assist in the R22 which no-one seems to like.

If they get the cost per hour-to-the-punter down to under £30 per hour more than the R22 - then it'll be a winner.

Although it's a bit 'chicken-and-egg' with the numbers of aircraft available. If there is hardly any around then people won't train on them (bit like the Schweizer these days in the UK).

We'll see what happens, I wouldn't mind a go in one myself.

Operating cost Cabri G2
 

Okay guys ...

Here's a personal estimate of the likely costs of flying the Cabri G2 and I hasten to add these ARE personal and not approved by the parent factory. (Just my forty years of experience operating light training helicopters.)

Many operators don't want to know about the depreciation element and IF you are clever enough to sell your machines for the same or more as you paid for them ... then wipe out that figure.

Depreciation is based on a twelve year write down of 70% of the capital cost. ie ... a residual value of 30% in twelve years time. Probably conservative.

Insurance came today from an aviation broker offering a CSL and a declared
hull value of £180k.

I imagine the trade will get a buying discount of the RRP but who knows. AND once the type arrives on the second hand market, the capital (fixed) costs will come tumbling down, albeit as the machine gets older the hourly maintenance and parts cost go up!.

So here we go.

Acquistion cost. Euro 250,000. Say £180,000

Fixed costs.

Depreciation. £180,000 less residual £54k
Gives £126,000 over twelve years. £10,500 per annum
Insurance at 5.4% CSL 9,720 " "
Interest at say 6% on £180k 10,800 " "
Some hangarage Say 2,500 " "

Total fixed costs PA. £33,520

Fly 300 hrs PA £111, 70p per hour
Fly 500 hrs PA 67. 00p " "
Fly 700 hrs PA 47. 98p " "

Hourly costs.

Fuel at 38 litres an hour 105p per litre £39. 0p per hr.
Airframe parts. Best guess ! Say 12. 00 " "
Lycoming engine £12,000 @ 2300 hrs 6. 00 " "
Labour Another best guess ! 15. 00 " "
Unscheduled bits & pieces Say 5. 00 " "

Total estimated hourly cost £77. 00 " "

Total hourly cost.

300 hrs PA £188. 00p
500 hrs PA 144. 00p
700 hrs PA 125. 00p

So there we have it. For the high houred operators who build in ALL their costs and fly 700 hrs. ALL over £125 per hour is sales margin. Fly 1000 hrs a year and the rate drops to £110. Buy a second hand Cabri and the rate could be 75% less than the above!

Just to say again, the above are my estimates and I await with interest the factory published figures.

And just as a side note. The fixed costs are mostly related to the acquisition cost, not the name on the side of the helicopter, albit depreciation and insurance could vary marginally.

Accountants please have fun with my figures!

Best wishes aLL,

Dennis Kenyon

euro envy
 

Well, I never thought I'd say this, but I'm a bit envious of you guys on the continent. With the low production volumes me thinks it's going to be a looong time before we see one down here in Oz.

UK Certification
 

Being a bit dim in this and many other matters, how will UK certification of the Cabri go? Having been EASA approved, how far does that go with the CAA here in the UK? Are we looking at a lengthy certification process for the Cabri in the UK? (Apologies if I've missed this question elsewhere)

The Cabri under EASA regs is certified for the UK.

Looks like Guimbal will be operated typical French style. I have emailed them twice for info & they have not both to respond, at least not in the last 4 weeks. If only they learnt some people skills. Any one know of how or through who to arrange a sale?

tbe beautiful women/ugly cars crowd
 

Same here about two years ago when I tried. Always wondered if I'd have got a response if the email was in French?

It could be the spam filter.:}:}:}

News!
New flight video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2_zWf-Ywpk

and if you go to www.loop.aero and sign up for a free acount you can read a review of the Cabri it's a bit fiddly and god only knows why you just can't download the pdf but the feb 2008 edition has a flight review.

Have attempted to contact these guys numerous times, numerous ways. As yet zero response back?? They obviously don't really wont to sell these machines.

A few notes. It is an impressive looking helicopter. It appears that the high inertia rotor system will make this a much safer helicopter than the R22. Would love to fly one and compare. The biggest issue I have with it right now is that they are associated with Eurocopter and it appears that they are learning some of Eurocopters bad ways. Lack of communication and parts availability. If they can get past that and understand that the market they are dealing with is much different than the government market the Eurocopter works best in, they will give Frank a hard run for his money.

Personally, it is my view that most flight schools treat the R22 as a throw-away helicopter. Run it out, sell it for as much as they can and get and new one. In many ways it makes sense for them to do that. With reasonable component and inspection times, this helicopter will do quite well in the training and personal market.