Ok 'amateur' is maybe not appropriate. Calling this 'insulting' is not appropriate either! You are very sensitive (this is not an insult...) However the Cabri is manufactured in a workshop and not a factory. 10 pieces a year is nothing compared to Bell. Total flying time of the whole company is equivalent to nothing in this industry. Personnally I will wait few years... As I said I'm not willing to be a test pilot...

Vince - Maybe i conclude things incorrectly but I am assuming you might fly R22/R44 products which seem to fall from the sky often, which makes the comments about being a test pilot for a G2 odd.

Nevertheless, I do not have any experience in any of them but know I would never consider flying a Robby myself or let my family ride in one of them, maybe I am being irrational?...

maybe you are...

Can anyone with experience in the Cabri G2 tell something about the space inside the cockpit?
I don't fit inside a R22 in a comfortable way (S300 and R44 are better) since i'm 1.91 m (6ft 3 inches).

Just curious.

Tim

I am
 

I am... irrational (I am, therefore I think... as "what's his name" said*) I know but it's funny, I never could stand the sight of a Robinson 22 or 44 or 66... these aircrafts do not LOOK right... there is (in my opinion anyway) an imbalance in the proportions or rather something I cannot really define. As Marcel Dassault once said : "if it looks beautiful, it will perform beautifully..." probably speaking about his Mirage. A question of harmony that is kind of inbuilt in our brain? I know it's hard to explain as a helicopter is far from anything "naturally" imaginable and it works nevertheless. Some of them are realy nice to look at, some a bit less but their proportions are mostly harmonious... not the Robbys. I'd rather be an irrational doubting alive than a convinced rational dead...

*Good all Rene Descartes of course and the other way round....
Safe flying, Al

What I'm saying is that there is no statistics worth anything concerning the Cabri. There is just no experience.
I have been introduced to Cabri by their Australian reseller and have been impressed by their lack of professionalism. Everything in the discussion was so approximate...
Now regarding Robinson, I learned on R22 and don't fly it anymore. I like the R44, faster than a EC120, better inertia than R22 (easy!), very affordable.
Statistics on R44 are not bad if you remove accidents due to pilot error, cables,... There is the problem of mast bumping specific to two blades helicopters and of course that can't happen on a Cabri. But the R44 is easier to park!
Conclusion is that I would love to see a Cabri 4 seater in the future that would benefit from the experience of the current Cabri. I've read interviews of Mr Guinbal and it looks such project is not even considered.
I think that this company is maybe talented but it lacks of industrial ambition.

But that is exactly the point. You are going to make errors and in a R22/44 the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

I'm not sure any pilot gives a much care to the commercial success / sales volumes or marketing of the aircraft he is piloting does he?

This video suggests that while a larger version is not yet in the pipeline it's certainly in his head. He's excited by the prospect of a machine filling a gap in-between the Cabri and EC120 drawing on his Eurocopter experience (mentioned towards the end of the video).

Thank's Aucky, Gimbal is quite clear about a 4 seats but of course we'll have to wait, it took to Robinson 13 years after the first delivery of a R22 to deliver the first R44.

What nonsense!

The industrial ambition is evidenced in the reality of a new helicopter which meets current standards, and is available to buy and fly.

One which is being favorably received and reviewed.

Whom are you judging them against?

What a fantastic little machine - I had 5 mins with the machine today and took this very quickly to show off some of the detailing. Most impressive for me is the clarity and resolution of the Glass Cockpit display :ok:

Well, I have to slouch a bit to be OK (head clearance) with pretty much same height or 1cm less and Bose X headset in R22. I've seen taller guys flying R22, although their knees and torso remind me of harmonica.
It very much depends on the ratio of leg and torso lengths of an individual.

I'm 6'3 (with 36" inside leg and a short body), head room not too much problem for me in the R22 or Cabri, and even my legs felt very comfortable in the Cabri but I fly the R22 too and seem to fit, albeit slightly contorted. The Cabri feels much roomier, and the cyclic position is very comfortable.

About the size of the pilot, look at this one :

http://www.aerobuzz.fr/local/cache-v...ACKS-92844.jpg

1,88 m and 105 Kgs
Richie Mc Caw captain of the famous All Blacks (actuals world champions) :D
Flying regularly the Cabri G2
Richie McCaw flies high while the footy's on hold | Stuff.co.nz
.

Eco-friendly aircraft ? :)

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/ima.../25/213274.jpg

A very well detailed report about the G2 (page 13 to 16) with one flight test plus pilots and owner point of view.

I'm glad to see how New Zealanders love aviation, it was a real pleasure to read this magazine. :ok:

By the way, is it polite to say kiwis instead of New Zealanders ? I like the word ! :) (and it's much shorter ;))

http://www.kiwiflyer.co.nz/KiwiFlyer...0-Complete.pdf

.

Dear all,
I leave in france marseille and i'm flying at aix en rpovence (where the Guimbal firm is).
I'm also qualified on R22, R44,H300 and cabri G2.
I read a lot of critic about the G2...
Of course Cabri could have some negative point...
But this is a young aircraft, R22 and H300 are very old...
For me Cabri could have 1 negative point
The first the cyclic a little bit hard when this is your first flight with this aircraft....
This negative point is removed by all other qualities...

I think guy who flight in this aircraft more than 10 hours don't want to come back into R22 and H300...
Very easy to fly and very confortable...
And you can bring luggage ( or a red wine case) which is not possible in the R22 and the H300...Because there is cargo hold behind the pilot seat, you have also place below the two seats and a little box near rudder pedals.
Rudder pedal are ajustable today (first version not)...
You can have air conditionning and Ipad support...
And a plug to recharge you i phone or other...

As vinceWS i'm waiting for the Cabri G4...

If you try cabri G2 you should fly more than 10 hours in a row on it before to come back on H300 or R22...

When you fly in it don't think to compare with other aircraft just flight and test all that it is possible...Air conditionning, cargo hold (with fresh food and water or luggage), ipad support, the plug to recharger ipad or iphone or other...If you can make a long range trip it's better, over water or in desert, over town etc.

After that come back to R22 or H300 and lets see...

The only trouble is that a young aircraft then difficult for maintenance and not so much guys qualified on it...
within few year it will change i think...

If i have to buy a piston aircraft it will be R44 or Cabri G2 only..
R44 to take with me 3 passangers, the cabri G2 because it is clearly (for me) better than R22 and H300 even if i like to fly with R22 and H300 (but not for long range trip)...

Kiwi
 

Call us anything you like - we're used to it! Just don't call us Aussies. !!

Very good article. Thanks for posting!

G2
 

Jazzy ... couldn't agree more. But don't forget the following.
Plasma ignition
Glass cockpit
Stroking (safe) seats
5 hrs endurance
Really good autorotation handling
Responsive multi-blade disc ... nil mast bumping
Composite construction
Nil finite life components except Lycoming
Sensible payload
Neat on-board check log
Auto carb-heating .... I can go on.

Great ship. Great handling. Spacious cabin & luggage locker. Good looks. Quiet. Just a pity its a mite dear, but the best always is.

The finest two seater produced for many a year.

Regards to all. DRK

Dennis - you are giving away endorsements too cheaply!!!

Alan Cassidy hates helicopters with a passion and yet you are one of very (and I mean VERY) few people whom his eyes light up with stories of simulated "air combat"....

The legend Dennis Kenyon endorses the Cabri G2... enough said.

The Cabri G2 has the European disease - it is far too expensive.
Yes I know about the desirable features and technology, etc.

It's not so expensive how it looks like. Count together price of new one and operational costs. In Europe it is very similar to R-22.

It is the only light piston engine helicopter designed and constructed to modern/current standards, so it is reasonable to expect a step change improvement, albeit at a cost.

Never flown one, but would like to. Which is not to say that it won't have its problems, just like any new type. However, the new standards provide some significant safety barriers to a terminal outcome.

Have 2K+ hrs in R22. Would be happy never to get in one again, although it allowed me to become a commercial pilot.

Dear Dennis,
I agree with you. I did not speak about technical part because this his not the first thing a pilot will be able to evaluate...
As a new car, the first thing you would like to do, is try this car, chekc if it's confortable, noisy or not, if you have enough power or not... you don't take into account, in a first time, technical part for example you cannot try the airbag! or the efficiancy of the seat belt when you make a hard braking...


But off course from a technical point of view a Cabri is the day'n'night compare to R22 and H300...

:ok:

Super safe compared to existing light helicopters lots of good points regarding finite components life, glass cockpit clear info & lots of it but at what cost when it goes wrong? FPR :ooh: with composite problems who can & at what cost repair.
I am not saying it is not a step change forward but there are other costs that come with tech changes.

I guess it depends how much you value your hide at. It's competing with the R22 which is a renowned widow maker!

Hello rjtjrt,

Around here, the G2 is much more expensive to buy than a R22 but less expensive to operate. The result of that situation is that the price of an hour on the G2 is 10 to 15% more expensive than a R22.

So for the same cost, pilots have the choice to fly about 50 minutes in a G2 or 60 in a R22. that's only a question of choice. Personally, I would choose the first one with no hesitation.

But back to you , you're lucky because In Australia where you live and at the flight school that offers flights on G2, the price for an hour on the G2 is the same than in a R22. So you can choose to enjoy flying an hour on a G2 or a R22 wichever you prefer without talking about money.
Life's nice down under, isn't it ?! :)
.

Helihenri wrote "But back to you , you're lucky because In Australia where you live and at the flight school that offers flights on G2, the price for an hour on the G2 is the same than in a R22. So you can choose to enjoy flying an hour on a G2 or a R22 without talking about money, life's nice, isn't it ?! "

Sorry Henri. I think by "in Australia" you are possibly assuming Sydney is Australia.
I live in the next state (I guess equivalent to next Province), 1000km from Sydney.
But point taken, and hourly costs are important in comparison.
My point was really that the manufacturer has a very desirable product, hampered by an eye watering purchase price. If they can get a busines model that allows a reduction in price, they would have a run away best seller.

John

Hello John,

What a strange idea to live in a big country ;) ! So you have to leave your job and move to Sydney :E

I see your point but infortunatly, the price of the G2 will not change a lot.

Robinson has find the perfect business model to sell a cheap helicopter.

G2 and R22 don't have the same price because they don't have the same charasteristics.

Has I said, for the same cost, I would prefer to fly 50 minutes in a G2 than 60 in a R22.

Just the sad question of choice between price and charasteristics. (and that's why I don't drive a Caterham Superlight R500 :bored:)
.

Well only problem I can see with the G2 ( i was about to replace a S300C with one) is the warranty or rather lack of warranty, they point blankly refuse to warrant labour at all. Result, not replacing me 2 S300's now, not on a machine where the oldest one has barely 1000 hours on it !! Compared to 20 million plus in a Schweizer.:ugh:

Hello Hughes500,

:eek: 20 millions hours in a 300 ! Maybe 20 000 would be find enough ;)

You're right, the choice in not easy and I can't help you about it. The H300 is a good and reliable aircraft.

You could contact Heli Aviation in Germany for instance to know what they think about this subject and how they deal with it. They operate 6 aircrafts and just ordered one more so they are at the present time the more experts about the G2.
.

HH

I would love to buy 2 of the machines but with both distributor (who takes 4 days to respond to my e mails because he is too busy)and manufacturer adament that they will not support any labour element if something goes wrong! Why should i pay for it ? Although here in UK I could take distributor to court on our sale of goods act, that is being of merchantable quality, but there is enough hassle running 4 helicopters without that.
Shame really as I know of 2 other potential customers who were interested until they discovered there was no warranty, even my £ 3000 Trek mountain bike comes with a frame warranty for life of the bike. Would you buy a new car with no warranty, dont think so. Even offered a compromise where I would get a Euro 10k discount and if nothing went wrong in 2 years they woud get the 10k back with interest. That got turned down flat, so obviously they expect it to go wrong and dont want to put their money where their mouth is, but expect me to !
Pity really as Bruno and his product are really impressive, so much so can put up with it costing more.

Hughes 500,

No warranty at all, or warranty covers parts but not labour?
The latter is pretty standard in the business is it not?

Regards,

Rigidhead

Rigi
Only warranty on parts.
Augusta 3 year parts and labour warranty
Sikorsky / Schweizer 2 years parts and labour warranty
MD 2 years parts and labour warranty
Robinson, not sure but 1 of my customers received parts and labour warranty

Comes down to money where the mouth is. My money is there 2 buy 1 possibly 2 machines, but manufacture obviously doesnt believe in their machine. Comes back to my original point who on this forum would puchase a new car with out warranty ?

Hello H500,

I do understand that you would prefer the maximun waranty possible but stop saying that there is no waranty at all, it is just not true.

You're not sure about Robinson, and we're talking about a nearly 40 years old manufecturer which pruduced more than 10 000 aircraft and so is one of the biggest.

Guimbal is young and small, they can't be better yet than Robinson on that point.

As you say, Schweizer that is part of the powerfull sikorsky has the perfect waranty you want and you like (with reason) the 300 so the choice is obvious for you !

Henri

The manufacturer should be justifiable proud of what has been achieved, but there are some things that would allow more customers to order this helicopter.
Rest assured, from the posts here, I think virtually all are astounded by the quality of the product that has been produced, and desire to purchase such a fine and desirable machine, but some are put off by other issues, that hopefully the manufacturer (? you) can correct if we give you feedback in a forum such as this.

John

An Italian fixed wing manufacturer's warranty is that parts are supplied FOC, shipping of the parts is met by the aircraft owner and warranty labour comes out of the dealer's 'cut'.

I'm sure not having labour covered by warranty will harm sales.

HHenri
Hughs 500 & I discussed this point & I feel that labour costs Will preclude me buying a G2, the feeling I have is they are trying to nit pick on warranty costs to the detriment of the product, it is not just about money it is about confidence in the product, perception is a powerful sales tool.

Rigidhead
Times are changing the aircraft industry has taken the proverbial out of paying customers for to long.
Money is tighter, people are looking for the best deal, or as is happening ( ask the insurers ) getting rid of expensive items such as aircraft in general inc helicopters.
Part cost has got to the obscene level for mundane items the manufacturers & regulators will kill the GA industry or is this what they want.

Dear all,
Herre is a demo flight of Cabri G2....Done in Gap (france) Olivier GENSSE in commande...O.GENSSE is flight test pilot in Eurocopter....


regarsds