New Zealand - Training Schools and Job Prospects

[heli_79]

I hear what your saying. Some schools I asked about student loans were rather pushy and others kept well clear.After being involved in Aviaton for numerous years on the ground I have bitten the bullet and financed myself to start my CPL(H). So far I have logged nearly 100 hrs and have my R22, R44 and H500 ratings. I put alot of hard work in cleaning floors, washing aircraft, refueling and making cups of coffee to be lucky enough not to pay for my R44 and H500 ratings. It has taken nearly 5 years to get me where I want to be and probably another 5 years to get where I want to be.

I agree with some previous posts, start at the bottom, work hard, shut your trap, keep in contact with companies especially in certain fields you wish to follow and the world is your oyster. I have learnt some amazing things while on frost, scenics, pest control, heli-sking, fire fighting etc etc taking it all in.

safe flying

heli79

[206dvr]

Well done heli 79. See guys? With a bit of grim determination you can still get yourself through a licence without asking for a hand out! Good to see. I hope one day your CV lands on my desk amongst the 30 others all with student loan licences. You'll have a better than average chance of getting your arse in one of my machines. Good on ya mate.

[zappa2009]

Quite a few do their Instructor Rating and do some instruction to build up hours for jobs but need to enjoy it to do it I think.
Agree with prev comments on putting the work in first.

[perfrej]

H500 or B206 in Christchurch?

Slightly off topic, but anyway...

I'll be going to Christchurch on my way to Mc Murdo station, Antarctica around January 26th. Does anyone know if it is possible to do a self fly hire of a 500 (any model) or B206 in the area? Just an hour or two for the heck of it.

I am current on both helicopters and carry a PPL(H) JAA with about 500 hours over 13 years, most of it in H500 and B206.

Any input appreciated!

/per

[hef]

If you want to self fly hire for only 2 hours that would be next to impossible. If you were keen to fly a Squirrel (A-star in your language) or an EC-120 with an instructor I'm sure Garden City Helicopters could help you out. If you want to fly for 2 hours I'm guessing you want to go into the Southern Alps? That's not a place for someone with only 500 hours over 13 years for a start, with an instructor that would be an amazing experience though. Sorry to be so negative and I hope someone else can help

[rotornut01]

PM me and I can put you in touch with someone, depending on how many hours you want to do. Most likely would need to be flown with an instructor tho.

[perfrej]

Self fly

HEF:

I am Swedish so "Ekorre" would be most appropriate for the AS350

Anyway, I'm not sure of what I want to do except simply cruise the area. I have lots of mountain and winter flying in the Swedish alps so I'm not afraid of that. NZ is one of my white spots on the map, so I really look forward towards spending a few days there while waiting for military transport to Antarctica (departure times can be a little unspecific).

I have a type rating on the EC120B but not on the AS350, so EC120 could be an option.

Plenty of time to figure this out before I leave. Thanks for reply!

/p

[Ned-Air2Air]

There is one EC120 based in Christchurch at Garden City. Dont think there are any more in that area. I know there are some further south but Garden City is probably going to be your best bet.

Garden City Helicopters Christchurch Scenic Flights Helicopter Pilot Training New Zealand

Now if you had a rating on the 500 series that could open up bunch for options for you.

Cheers

Ned

[Cunarsil]

asking for training school advice

Hello everybody! sorry for the change of topic.

I am a spanish citizen who want to get a helicopter certificate (CPL) in New Zealand (currently searching a reliable school in NZ or even in Australia, because I always wanted to go to those wonderful lands). I haven´t any flight experience in flight (far away than as a passenger ;-)

First of all, thanks Helipro for this great thread. And I have done my “homework”: I have read the whole thread to find some answers.

But I´m asking now for some last help: need to know if my conclusions are right, and also if there is some new notice needed to know about the schools.

From what I´ve read here, I could say:

- Heliflight and Helipro (and Christchurch Helicopters since belongs to the last one) are the largest schools. A lot of recommendations in the thread but also a some negative opinions
- Wanaka is also the other school very well named in the thread, and always with positive opinions.
- Bruce Harvey´s has a lot of recommendations also, but has no website and only take some students
- Ardmore Helicopters has a lot of recommendations, and the same happens to Garden City Helicopters.

I have seen their websites and get some information, but I know those are “marketing places”… Everything is nice and cool… Like happened to me in Spain: one of the school so highly recommended (and with a great website) was finally in bankrupt!!! I need some “first hand” information from you fellows because I am going to make a “big jump”: too much money, too far from my country!

Actually I am thinking to pick out between Ardmore and Garden City. Please, do anybody know something wrong with them? other general advices?
Thanks in advance
cunarsil

[Te_Kahu]

HeliFlite has ceased trading and the whole situation around them unfortunately looks a little messy at this point in time.

If you are looking at purchasing hours in blocks I would ask your prospective trainer if they use a trust account. Helipro is the only one that I am aware of that does this. i.e. the company only gets paid for the hours you fly. The rest is kept in trust by an independent third party - a Paraparaumu law firm I believe.

TK

[hef]

Bruce Harvey isn't instructing anymore. Avoid Helipro like a plaque, they are purely in business to make money and to take advantage of the student loan scheme. Wanaka helicopters is worth a look, or any of the smaller schools outside of the big cities if you want quality training. He may be getting on in his years but have a talk to Ian Wakeling in Wanganui. He probably knows more about r/w flying than all of the instructors at Helipro combined. And he is a really friendly, genuine bloke. If you train with him you will see the 'real side' of the industry. To name a few others (if they are still instructing) Mark Law, Pete Law, Doc Sutherland(?).

[heli_79]

Training schools

Agree with Hef, can't go past Wanaka Heli. Top outfit, good machines, great instructors and learning enviroment. The guys down south at Southern wings are worth a mention too. I think South West Heli provide the training? Others Mark Law, Ric Graham, Doc Sutherland and Gavin in Te Anau.

I would tend to avoid large schools that treat you like a number and have student loans.

[Cunarsil]

Thank you guys!!

I agree with you, I prefer medium-small companies. I didn´t know what happens with Heliflight, thanks Te Kahu!

And about Helipro, Hef don’t worry. I have read a lot of bad stuff about them, that makes me aware!

So I am going to have a look on Wanaka, as you said, and also Ian Wakeling in Wanganui.

Sorry for asking again: what do you think about Ardmore helicopters (in Auckland) and Garden Ctity (in Christchurch)? Both seem to be small-medium companies. A friend of a friend of mine took a course at Ardmore three years ago and he told me that it is a good school with good guys.

And about the fees and payment: I saw that in Australia it is use to pay as you flight not upfront. Is it the same in New Zealand? I don’t find anything about it in the NZ schools websites (opposite to Australia Schools which especially mention that)

Thanks!
cunarsil

[EMS R22]

Yeah avoid large schools most of them just out to take ya hard earned dollar!
Best bet guys like Rick Graham or Mark Law who are out there doing it every day not bashing up the circut with a few hundy hrs under there belt.

[skidbiter2]

I would recommend Mark Law, he also sorts out accommodation for his students at times I think.

Great guy, knows his stuff, I would definitely check him out.

Here is his web site.

Home - Frontier Helicopters Ltd. are helicopter training school based in Whakatane, New Zealand. Providing training solutions to people seeking helicopter pilot jobs. - Frontier Helicopters Ltd. - Helping you secure helicopter pilot jobs through worl

[nuttyrotor]

Anonymity - a great thing...

Cunarsil – Careful who you take advice as you will find that almost everyone on this form, including Colin (hef) have their own little agenda going on and enjoy the fact that they can pass judgement on companies or individuals and remain anonymous.

I would recommend that you don’t choose your flight training school while sitting on the other side of the world. Arrive a couple of weeks before you want to begin your training and then hire a car and go and visit each of the schools that have on your short list. As TeKahu said make sure that your money goes into a trust account (if paying up front) and the school can only draw down the funds after you have flown. As you will be self funding you should not need to pay up front if you don’t want to.

A short list I would recommend:
Ardmore Helicopters
Garden City
Helipro
Wanaka Helicopters

Heliflight are history so no point considering them. Went bust second time around about 2-4 weeks ago. Reports I have are of the CEO out of country in self imposed exile. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who's lives are ruined as Heliflight has their money with no hope of seeing it again. Hence my comments on trust accounts...

As you will be entering New Zealand on a Student Visa you will only be able to train with a NZQA accredited company. That will most likely rule out a lot of the small operators. Big company vs little company, well we could argue the pros and cons about each for years. Big - generally have good training systems and culture even if they have low time instructors. Usually have senior pilots floating around mentoring the low time guys and flying with the students periodically to make sure the training is up to scratch. Small operators can offer a personal ‘feel’ and 1 on 1 training however sometimes standards can be a little lower so you need to dig deep when considering a small operator to get past any bull**** and bluster.

I find it amusing that certain individuals continually complain about the student loan scheme in New Zealand flooding the industry with pilots and ruining the job prospects for everyone else. I recall comments from the same type of individual back in the early 90’s, when I took out a $55k bank loan to fund my training. If they put as much effort into finding a job as they do complaining they would have many thousands of hours under their belts by now.

Pigchaser – sounds like you have the right attitude, write up a list of the senior people in each NZ company and call them once a month. If you get your name out there your persistence will pay off. Do you have a HT licence and DG? I couldn’t agree more with dragman.

EMS R22 – so do Rick and Mark offer training for free do they? Fantastic where can I sign up! When you snap out of your little dream world you will find that every helicopter operator in New Zealand is continually thinking of new ways to extricate your hard earned dollars out of your bank account. Some are just a little more subtle than others.

[Cunarsil]

Thanks a lot, nuttyrotor!!!

The issue with your first advice is that if I go to New Zealand and then I find a good school, after that I have to come back to Spain to arrange my student visa (as in the NZ embassy told me). That´s the reason I would like to find the school from here.

I have sent emails to Ardmore (no answer yet) and to Garden City (they answer they do not take internacional students... I supose is what you said: they aren´t a NZQA accredited company) I pray that is not the case of Ardmore but I am afraid this is only a wishfully thinking...

I saw Wanaka has in its website a special place for international students, and the same has Helipro.

Wanaka is a bit far away and in the south where other people told me the weather (and the posibilities for flight days) is worse than in other places as in Christchurch and, specially, in Auckland. Also I thought to live in a big city (ok, not as big as Madrid, but at least as Christchurch) Probably going to Wanaka it is too much for me, so isolated.

Finally it seems that events lead me to Helipro and I am not convinced about them, despiting the trust acount they have (as Te kahu said.) I have to think about it. Fortunatly I have the money and I dont need to take a loan. Even if they have a trust acount I would prefer not to pay up front.

thanks again to everybody!

[rotornut01]

Finally some advice that makes sense and is not out just to bag any company just for the hell of it. Well done nuttyrotor.

The facts are easy enough to find out by visiting people and asking some hard questions, talking to current and past students (the training provider should be able to pass on contact details to you) and finding out what kind of rate of employment past students have. Training providers who have a good track record will have this kind of information. If they cannot provide it, then they probably do not have a good track record.

I would also ask, how many helicopters they currently have, and how many students. How many instructors, how long they have been employed there and what quantity and type of hours they have (I would be looking for a mix of commercial and training experience across a number of instructors). Again, a good training provider will have no issue in sharing this information with you. If they don't share it, then steer clear of them.

As far as the money side of things go, as mentioned before, don't pay up front unless the company uses a trust account that is legitimate. Ask the Heliflite students about this!!

These questions could also be asked over the phone or by email for those from overseas (obviously not quite as easy to gauge the mood and feel for the place this way), but ask to talk to the manager/owner or chief flying instructor and you should get factual truthful answers to your questions.

The last advice I would give you is not to take much notice of comments on an anonymous web site like this that rubbish some training providers unless they are backed up and substantiated using verifiable facts. The helicopter industry in NZ is very small and unfortunately some people throw this uninformed information about for no other reasons than to put people off going with the competition.

Also, some people have history with certain companies based on events of many years ago and have big ass chips on their shoulders because of it. Ask Hef why he would avoid Helipro like the plague? Maybe he would like to share some information to back that up? maybe not, we'll see.

[Southislander]

Why NZ?

Can I ask why someone in Europe would consider coming to NZ to gain a CPL and have u done your research properly. The fact is you will get very good training in NZ probably as good as anywhere in the world....however the problem we have in NZ is that the NZ CPL is not widely recognised. In fact it really gives you nothing when trying to convert back to an Easa licence. You might say that it does not matter as you want to work offshore now but from my experience Europeans do not find work in NZ or Australia on a fresh CPL....someone else may care to offer a different opionion but I do not know of any fresh foreign CPLs working in NZ. Most train and then go back to europe only to find they have to spend a considerable amount of money converting.

Probably a bigger issue for NZ other than student loans is getting our CAA motivated to start negotiations with Easa over some licence recognition. If our licence was more widely accepted then attracting foreign students would be easier. Most foreign students go to HAI or australia as its much cheaper.

good luck

[EMS R22]

Nuttyrotor, what i was meaning is if you are going to spend your hard earned cash why not do it with guys with experience and contacts. These guys are all over the country flying or doing checks etc. Last time i checked they where still charging for there services , so no they dont fly for free....and i highly dought that guys like that would reccomend you do a 500 , 350 , EC120 , lawnmower rating to make you more "employable".

oh and buy the way is Nuttyrotor your real name also.....