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RAF announces Puma Replacement plan

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RAF announces Puma Replacement plan

Old 1st Dec 2021, 19:25
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Lynx Mk10?

No thanks!!
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Old 1st Dec 2021, 23:16
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Evalu8ter, Did you know that the Wildcat is almost universally called the "Mildcat" by the RAF who regard it with a certain amount of derision. I suspect there would be strong opposition if that was suggested as a Puma replacement!

TF
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Old 1st Dec 2021, 23:18
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Of course it's not a Puma replacement. When has the Puma ever been referred to as a Recce platform?
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 12:30
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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TF, wrong end of the stick chap. The extra Wildcats are to keep Yeovil afloat and provide more FIND/light utility capability. The additional Chinooks backfill the Pumas (queue wails about urban ops and false inefficiencies of flying half empty Chinooks …..)
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 15:19
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Anyone heard a rumour the Pumas could be going earlier than 2025?
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 17:13
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Bearing in mind that the Wildcat production line depended on quite a few components recovered from the former Mk 9 fleet, is it even possible to build any more?!

Notwithstanding whether they could be made, and in what timescales, it's suitability for the Cyprus/Brunei (and the 'other one') roles is non-existent.
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 19:02
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I note that Leonardo are proudly marketing the fact that they continue to sell their wares to countries of horrendous Human Rights performance.
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Old 3rd Dec 2021, 13:37
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EESDL View Post
I note that Leonardo are proudly marketing the fact that they continue to sell their wares to countries of horrendous Human Rights performance.
Airbus are even worse - they inherited the French habit of feral sales to anyone with blood tinged euros
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Old 3rd Dec 2021, 16:03
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Let's not pretend that any country selling arms to any other country really gives a sh*t about what they are used for and who they are used on.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 11:25
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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I donít disagree Crab. My point was, if youíre going to apply a standard, apply it to all.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 15:45
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Buy only the best !

All of this buy X to save jobs ató- is a false logic. The primary role of the armed services is to protect the U.K. from those that will do it harm. Specific manufacturers viability must come second to that.
so IF for example the latest Blackhawk is adjudged the best that is the one we should buy!
Saving the Leonardo factory at Yeovil must come way down the list. The Mildcat is next to useless.
if necessary build the most suitable aircraft under license at Yeovil. It needs to be able to deliver at least as many fully equipped troops as the Puma.

TF
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 20:15
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tigerfish View Post
All of this buy X to save jobs ató- is a false logic. The primary role of the armed services is to protect the U.K. from those that will do it harm. Specific manufacturers viability must come second to that.
so IF for example the latest Blackhawk is adjudged the best that is the one we should buy!
Saving the Leonardo factory at Yeovil must come way down the list. The Mildcat is next to useless.
if necessary build the most suitable aircraft under license at Yeovil. It needs to be able to deliver at least as many fully equipped troops as the Puma.

TF
TF, it's lovely that you think that, but large equipment orders in just about any country I can think of are all about the politics. If you have a domestic capability, then its internal. If you don't, it's international. Whether that's NMH, job shares for F-35, turkey buying SAMs, UAE buying a shiny jet fleet or whatever. A massive chunk of it is political, with the min viable product for the mil capabilities required essentially being the threshold beyond which the politicians don't care about capabilities of the kit (if they even cared before).
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Old 5th Dec 2021, 13:31
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EESDL View Post
I note that Leonardo are proudly marketing the fact that they continue to sell their wares to countries of horrendous Human Rights performance.
You on about the sad (violent) demise of an Italian student who is up with the Pharoahs?? Leonardo are quite Schtum about the 149 seen in the same markings and camouflage on flight tests from Cascina Costa, when asked about who itís been exported to.

Russian Helicopters JSC are no-comment at Dubai Air Show recently when I asked about the KA52K export to the same country. I explained thereís plenty of photos and the odd article showing the Alligator on the Nile. They said thatís fine but until they officially issue a press release then as far as the world is concerned it is what it is.

cheerd
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 07:42
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Seen as Australia is dumping their entire MRH90 fleet and replacing with Blackhawk, does it not make sense for the UK to do the same under AUKUS?

Leonardo is no more British than LIDL; yes they employ people in the UK, but thatís no reason to hamstring the military with another helicopter thatís no use on the battlefield.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 20:59
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Originally Posted by helisniper View Post
Bearing in mind that the Wildcat production line depended on quite a few components recovered from the former Mk 9 fleet, is it even possible to build any more?!

Notwithstanding whether they could be made, and in what timescales, it's suitability for the Cyprus/Brunei (and the 'other one') roles is non-existent.
Apparently they have flown the Wildcat simulator in Brunei conditions and the feedback was that it performed a lot better than expected.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 21:44
  #156 (permalink)  

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Seen as Australia is dumping their entire MRH90 fleet and replacing with Blackhawk, does it not make sense for the UK to do the same under AUKUS?
We were talking about replacing the Puma (and Wessex) with Blackhawk as long ago as 1979!
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Old 11th Dec 2021, 08:41
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Apparently they have flown the Wildcat simulator in Brunei conditions and the feedback was that it performed a lot better than expected.
ISTR they claimed the Lynx could work in Belize to replace the Puma, forced the RAF out and then discovered the Lynx was no good in that environment.

And just because a simulator says it will work is not that much of a recommendation.

BERP blades and tight jungle clearings are not a good mix.
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Old 11th Dec 2021, 10:21
  #158 (permalink)  

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Belize…. various Army brains there thought they knew more about helicopters than the RAF.

I recall a certain non air crew Major at Rideau who couldn’t understand why Pumas (the underpowered HC1 back then) couldn’t fly with the full complement of 16 seats, put soldiers on all of them, add luggage or an underslung load and fill right up with fuel. We normally flew in 12 seat fit. He was convinced we were “short changing” him.

Having been advised otherwise he later claimed that the RAF were over estimating the weight of the average soldier and therefore more soldiers should be carried than we said we could.

As far as he was concerned, if a helicopter had floor space, it could be filled!

He instigated a formal “checkout” procedure where every soldier was individually weighed before flight. He shot himself right in the foot with that because his men were actually considerably heavier than the average weights previously used, so it was decreed from on high that we carried fewer than before. He deservedly earned the nickname “The bathroom scales Major”.

One particular flight we were regularly tasked for on Fridays was to take soldiers and a local policeman to an offshore island for “R & R” barbecue over the weekend (we weren’t invited). The load included passengers, various equipment but most importantly a large (cubic metre?) heavyweight aluminium trunk containing their food and drinks, in ice. Loading was supervised as usual by my crewman just before planned departure but the army delayed their flight by some hours. When we finally lifted off from the raised helipad, which was actually only just big enough to get the wheels on with care, being sized for a skidded Scout, I realised we were very much overweight and the Puma wouldn’t transition away as normal. I had no option but to continue trying to fly because the helipad was just behind us and the ground ahead was riddled with vegetation covering deep drainage ditches. We got very, very close to crashing into the ammo compound but just scraped over the trees!

When we landed at the island the soldiers couldn’t lift the food trunk off the aircraft. We shut down and then found that it was inexplicably full almost right to the brim with water! It had to be bailed out to get the weight down.

An investigation discovered that the Army, concerned about the delay causing their beers to get warm, had kept going back to the aircraft and topping up the ice as it melted without telling us. A cubic metre of water weighs a great deal!
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Old 11th Dec 2021, 11:16
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I completely empathise with your story of the Ďscales Majorísí ignorance towards your professional advice but I find it very rich that a crab is complaining about a few Army blokes having a BBQ and a few beers on the beach. Iíve never met a crab yet thatís willing to get their feet wet.

LZ
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Old 11th Dec 2021, 11:43
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Originally Posted by NIREP reader View Post
Apparently they have flown the Wildcat simulator in Brunei conditions and the feedback was that it performed a lot better than expected.
What is meant by Ďconditionsí? The climate isnít that extreme - itís equatorial/maritime.
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