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RAF announces Puma Replacement plan

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RAF announces Puma Replacement plan

Old 15th Nov 2023, 22:24
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The other factor that may have come into play is if you approached the said company and said “ look your helicopter is on our shortlist for say 30 examples and we require 4 in the short term to cover Cyprus and Brunei, what is your best offer”
and bearing in mind they would then be looking at the overall contract and possibly get a foot in the door, you would imagine they would possibly get a cracking deal on a use and return if not selected. I would imagine they would possibly have been able to furnish used or demonstrators.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 07:24
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There was nothing wrong with the 412's they were EP's if they wanted to upgrade could have had them brought up to EPX spec for a fraction of new machines (like Canada is doing and other 412 operators are looking at), still better hot/high than a 145.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 07:46
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
The other factor that may have come into play is if you approached the said company and said “ look your helicopter is on our shortlist for say 30 examples and we require 4 in the short term to cover Cyprus and Brunei, what is your best offer”
and bearing in mind they would then be looking at the overall contract and possibly get a foot in the door, you would imagine they would possibly get a cracking deal on a use and return if not selected. I would imagine they would possibly have been able to furnish used or demonstrators.
If that is their ‘best offer’ then heaven help the Tax payer!
You raise a very serious point and one I’m not convinced MOD/DSE can navigate ethically.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 15:21
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MOD/DSE might have had a look at a civvy solution for both. Cyprus and Brunei both got a mention at Heli Investor by Bristows Russ Torbet as possible opportunity.
What sort of service and with what platform would you get for 140m StG ?

https://www.helicopterinvestor.com/w...ure-of-SAR.pdf
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 17:18
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Originally Posted by Franks Town
MOD/DSE might have had a look at a civvy solution for both. Cyprus and Brunei both got a mention at Heli Investor by Bristows Russ Torbet as possible opportunity.
What sort of service and with what platform would you get for 140m StG ?

https://www.helicopterinvestor.com/w...ure-of-SAR.pdf
The Brunei gig isn't SAR though, it's moving people and stuff around with a dash of medevac. Not an impossibility for it to go to a civvy contract though, as per BATUS, BATUK and BATSUB.
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 07:47
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There is very little SAR requirement in Cyprus either.

Bristow are doing well getting many SAR contracts but are still without a training school to create the crews (especially rearcrew) to fill all those contracts.
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 16:36
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk9
There was nothing wrong with the 412's they were EP's if they wanted to upgrade could have had them brought up to EPX spec for a fraction of new machines (like Canada is doing and other 412 operators are looking at), still better hot/high than a 145.
Are you sure about Hot&High? From what I’ve heard a 169 and 145 (D-2 and D-3) are superior to all others in the medium segment with regard to H&H. The 145 D-3 even landed somewhere around 23000ft…
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 11:35
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HOGE MTOM @ ISA
H145D3: 8.955 ft (3.800 kg)
AW169EP: 11.500 ft (4.800 kg)
B412EPX: 8.200 ft (5.530 kg)

HOGE MTOM-100 kg @ ISA
H145D3: 10.815 ft (3.700 kg)
AW169EP: 12.000 ft (4.700 kg)
B412EPX: 9.000 ft (5.400 kg)

HOGE MTOM-100 kg @ ISA+20
H145D3: 8.570 ft (3.700 kg)
AW169EP: 8.400 ft (4.700 kg)
B412EPX: 5.100 ft (5.400 kg)

Sources: 169 RFM, 145/412 latest manufacturer data.

Last edited by Phoinix; 18th Nov 2023 at 12:10.
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 18:00
  #549 (permalink)  
 
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Shortlisted bidders for the UK’s New Medium Helicopter (NMH) requirement will have to wait until the New Year for the next stage of the tender process after yet another schedule slip to the long-running procurement. Three companies – Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo Helicopters and Sikorsky – were notified in the autumn of 2022 that they had been cleared for the next stage of the NMH bid process, the release of the so-called Invitation to Negotiate (ITN).
The release of the ITN, detailing the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD’s) exact requirements for the acquisition, was initially scheduled for September 2022. That was then pushed into the first quarter of this year, then later in the first half, before being delayed again until late 2023.However, that deadline has now slipped further; publication of the ITN is now not expected before late January or early February 2024, according to multiple sources familiar with the MoD’s schedule.
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicop...156152.article
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 18:58
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Originally Posted by Phoinix
HOGE MTOM @ ISA
H145D3: 8.955 ft (3.800 kg)
AW169EP: 11.500 ft (4.800 kg)
B412EPX: 8.200 ft (5.530 kg)

HOGE MTOM-100 kg @ ISA
H145D3: 10.815 ft (3.700 kg)
AW169EP: 12.000 ft (4.700 kg)
B412EPX: 9.000 ft (5.400 kg)

HOGE MTOM-100 kg @ ISA+20
H145D3: 8.570 ft (3.700 kg)
AW169EP: 8.400 ft (4.700 kg)
B412EPX: 5.100 ft (5.400 kg)

Sources: 169 RFM, 145/412 latest manufacturer data.
Exactly… so not a match to a 169 or 145
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 21:32
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A better metric would be to compare APS weight and then find `disposable payload`to a selected altitude/temp..
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 21:47
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Originally Posted by sycamore
A better metric would be to compare APS weight and then find `disposable payload`to a selected altitude/temp..
I did that math months ago, 412 is never the best in anything.
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Old 9th Dec 2023, 03:29
  #553 (permalink)  
 
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Depends on where the aircraft is here in Oz 145 doesn't compare in range/payload to the EP, just about every operator that tried 117/145 end up going to 412's, though most 412 operators now going to 139, 412 is still a better bush machine.
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Old 9th Dec 2023, 06:52
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk9
Depends on where the aircraft is here in Oz 145 doesn't compare in range/payload to the EP, just about every operator that tried 117/145 end up going to 412's, though most 412 operators now going to 139, 412 is still a better bush machine.
Carful using the “hot/high”. If it’s just “hot”, and not high, even an EP wins hands down. As soon as you start adding the “high” component, it starts trailing behind.
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