Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

RAF announces Puma Replacement plan

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

RAF announces Puma Replacement plan

Old 11th Dec 2021, 13:03
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 249
Received 37 Likes on 18 Posts
Originally Posted by NIREP reader
Apparently they have flown the Wildcat simulator in Brunei conditions and the feedback was that it performed a lot better than expected.
This statement is completely meaningless without context and standard. It could be that it was expected to be utterly useless, but was just quite bad. In this case it would be better than expected, but still totally unsuitable.

I have not met an RAF pilot yet who does not think that Blackhawk is the most suitable solution.
Baldeep Inminj is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2021, 19:56
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hereford UK
Age: 67
Posts: 567
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I have flown 1400+ Hours in Brunei and was perhaps the man who finally got the Lynx **** canned in favour of the 212 the last time. I briefed the then Defence Secretary (George Younger) with his MOD team. I then flew demo’s to the types of LP’s we flew into; in the 3 training areas we used. The were: Labi, Ulu Tutong and the Temburong districts, by far the hardest on the aircraft was Temburong, an average LP in that district had an average temperature of +32 with DA of 5500’ the Tutong, +34 DA 4000’ and the Labi +34 and a DA of 3000’. The other area that has to be taken very carefully into account is using the winch! The Scout MRG oil temp limitations in the hover at those DA’s I forget but I can tell you that it got dangerously high, dangerously quickly. Having a 1000+ on Lynx and being pretty efficient with the ODM it came out with the ability of less payload than the Scout could! Not even seen the New Lynx Mk10 ODM so I’ll leave that to them. Hope that gives a clue!
MOSTAFA is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2021, 10:31
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bristol
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Not the dreadful Mildcat - It can't carry fully equipped troops like the Puma can. The Blackhawk is far more suitable!

TF
tigerfish is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2021, 17:57
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,640
Received 2,663 Likes on 1,133 Posts
Sikorsky are pitching Polish built Blackhawks as Puma replacement

https://www.flightglobal.com/helicop...146812.article
NutLoose is online now  
Old 14th Dec 2021, 03:51
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,458
Received 23 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by MOSTAFA
I have flown 1400+ Hours in Brunei and was perhaps the man who finally got the Lynx **** canned in favour of the 212 the last time. I briefed the then Defence Secretary (George Younger) with his MOD team. I then flew demo’s to the types of LP’s we flew into; in the 3 training areas we used. The were: Labi, Ulu Tutong and the Temburong districts, by far the hardest on the aircraft was Temburong, an average LP in that district had an average temperature of +32 with DA of 5500’ the Tutong, +34 DA 4000’ and the Labi +34 and a DA of 3000’. The other area that has to be taken very carefully into account is using the winch! The Scout MRG oil temp limitations in the hover at those DA’s I forget but I can tell you that it got dangerously high, dangerously quickly. Having a 1000+ on Lynx and being pretty efficient with the ODM it came out with the ability of less payload than the Scout could! Not even seen the New Lynx Mk10 ODM so I’ll leave that to them. Hope that gives a clue!
British helicopters are temperate zone naval weapons.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2021, 14:46
  #166 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,568
Received 407 Likes on 214 Posts
Originally Posted by Hot_LZ
I completely empathise with your story of the ‘scales Major’s’ ignorance towards your professional advice but I find it very rich that a crab is complaining about a few Army blokes having a BBQ and a few beers on the beach. I’ve never met a crab yet that’s willing to get their feet wet.

LZ

I wasn't complaining....apart from the Army overloading the aircraft.

But we RAF dry footed folk did have our own barbecue, usually on Sundays at Caye Chapel - until the Army insisted that it was unfair that they weren't invited.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 20th May 2022, 22:55
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 3,134
Received 95 Likes on 50 Posts
Here is the tender folks

https://www.find-tender.service.gov....rchResults&p=1

cheers
chopper2004 is offline  
Old 21st May 2022, 06:01
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 248
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Trouble at Mill?

MD & also the Head of UK Campaigns sacked at LH.
Always sorry to hear when that happens but apparently deemed medically unfit - severe case of lack of long-sightedness !
Sounds like recent press article clarified that there is a far better use for Yeovil than being pre-occupied with hawking a poorly-selling hash-up.
JulieAndrews is offline  
Old 21st May 2022, 10:30
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 249
Received 37 Likes on 18 Posts
I understand the Blackhawk’s will be provided/modified by a 3rd party in the UK - Teeside I believe.
I also heard yesterday that Bell are very likely to attend the party, bringing the 525 Relentless along as their date.

This will be interesting to watch. Blackhawk is combat proven, 149 is ‘jobs for the lads in the SW’, H175 is ‘jobs for the lads in N Wales’ and uses the same avionics as H135 and H145 used on MFTS, and Bell just makes brilliant helicopters.

Popcorn ready!
Baldeep Inminj is offline  
Old 21st May 2022, 12:46
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Posts: 950
Received 33 Likes on 27 Posts
A lot will depend on the RAF mission description. If it is admin support, the 525 will compete well. If it involves combat requirements, the ballistic survivability and crashworthy requirements imposed by the US Army in all aspects of the design, ( just one example: to include for instance rotor blade survivability to 23MM HEI hits at various angles ( and provable by actual firing tests ) but the list is pretty long ) will be in play.
But basically those same requirements applied to the AAH competition, so the Apache specs in that regard should be familiar to the MOD folks.
JohnDixson is offline  
Old 22nd May 2022, 07:41
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Underground
Posts: 40
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Is the 525 even in many civil operators’ fleets? It’s been a bit late to the party for the super medium category with the AW189 and H175 already with a fair bit of time under their belt proving their capabilities (or lack thereof).

I was under the impression that the 525 is still a very unknown quantity.
torqueshow is offline  
Old 22nd May 2022, 08:14
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Out there
Posts: 362
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
Originally Posted by torqueshow
Is the 525 even in many civil operators’ fleets? It’s been a bit late to the party for the super medium category with the AW189 and H175 already with a fair bit of time under their belt proving their capabilities (or lack thereof).

I was under the impression that the 525 is still a very unknown quantity.
Don't think it's even certified yet is it?
Evil Twin is offline  
Old 22nd May 2022, 08:58
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Used to be God's own County
Posts: 1,718
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj
I understand the Blackhawk’s will be provided/modified by a 3rd party in the UK - Teeside I believe.
I also heard yesterday that Bell are very likely to attend the party, bringing the 525 Relentless along as their date.

This will be interesting to watch. Blackhawk is combat proven, 149 is ‘jobs for the lads in the SW’, H175 is ‘jobs for the lads in N Wales’ and uses the same avionics as H135 and H145 used on MFTS, and Bell just makes brilliant helicopters.

Popcorn ready!
I wouldn’t advertise the H175 / H145 / H145 avionics commonality if I was Airbus.
it is not MOSA and woe betide anyone wanting to use it for stores management etc.
even in basic O&G operation you pay through the nose for any changes. It’s great for O&G and had every confidence in autocoupling approaches - although the odd moment when trapped water in the pipes initiated a descent whilst turning at low level......
Bell’s rationale is simply “why can’t you wait a little bit longer as you’ve delayed to this point”
quite confident that it won’t hit FOC within next 7-10 years with all bells n whistles attached.
latest events in Somerset indicates that someone has finally recognised where the company should be focused / heading.
timeframe requires an existing tried n tested machine and that narrows field to the Blackhawk or an updated Huey. Budget and fleet numbers points towards the midlife Blackhawk out of Alabama / Teesside at approx 60% OEM price but more importantly - a viable delivery target date as LM/ Sikorsky’s European facility is backed-up with orders now that the world has got a lot more serious and you’ll be lucky to see a machine within 3-4 years.
that was direct from the guys at PZL.
EESDL is offline  
Old 22nd May 2022, 13:47
  #174 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NW
Posts: 142
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by EESDL
I wouldn’t advertise the H175 / H145 / H145 avionics commonality if I was Airbus.
it is not MOSA and woe betide anyone wanting to use it for stores management etc.
even in basic O&G operation you pay through the nose for any changes. It’s great for O&G and had every confidence in autocoupling approaches - although the odd moment when trapped water in the pipes initiated a descent whilst turning at low level......
Bell’s rationale is simply “why can’t you wait a little bit longer as you’ve delayed to this point”
quite confident that it won’t hit FOC within next 7-10 years with all bells n whistles attached.
latest events in Somerset indicates that someone has finally recognised where the company should be focused / heading.
timeframe requires an existing tried n tested machine and that narrows field to the Blackhawk or an updated Huey. Budget and fleet numbers points towards the midlife Blackhawk out of Alabama / Teesside at approx 60% OEM price but more importantly - a viable delivery target date as LM/ Sikorsky’s European facility is backed-up with orders now that the world has got a lot more serious and you’ll be lucky to see a machine within 3-4 years.
that was direct from the guys at PZL.
customize avionic in today's tech is always expensive. No difference between AH's own helionix and Leonardo's honeywell solution. If you do not go with the OEM, you risk ripping out everything and get someone to redo your entire interface. But at least AH and honeywell last forever, sort of. Better than your mix and match electronic nightmare in a decade down the road.
Mee3 is offline  
Old 22nd May 2022, 14:10
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 3,134
Received 95 Likes on 50 Posts
Originally Posted by torqueshow
Is the 525 even in many civil operators’ fleets? It’s been a bit late to the party for the super medium category with the AW189 and H175 already with a fair bit of time under their belt proving their capabilities (or lack thereof).

I was under the impression that the 525 is still a very unknown quantity.
Nope there’s only four flight test vehicles (should have been 5 but there was sadly a fatal crash in summer 2016).

PHi was Launch customer a decade ago Heli a expo 2012 when it was unveiled, then it was meant to be Bristow Group…

When I attended Heli Expo 2020, the final development test vehicle had Norwegian offshore company as launch customer …

And the Teeside company is offshoot of Ace Aeronautics

https://acehawkaerospace.com

cheers
chopper2004 is offline  
Old 23rd May 2022, 10:18
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Underground
Posts: 40
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by chopper2004
Nope there’s only four flight test vehicles (should have been 5 but there was sadly a fatal crash in summer 2016).

PHi was Launch customer a decade ago Heli a expo 2012 when it was unveiled, then it was meant to be Bristow Group…

When I attended Heli Expo 2020, the final development test vehicle had Norwegian offshore company as launch customer …

And the Teeside company is offshoot of Ace Aeronautics

https://acehawkaerospace.com

cheers
Great info, thanks. Seems like a long shot in that case.
torqueshow is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 23rd May 2022, 10:39
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,242
Received 329 Likes on 183 Posts
Originally Posted by chopper2004
Nope there’s only four flight test vehicles (should have been 5 but there was sadly a fatal crash in summer 2016).

PHi was Launch customer a decade ago Heli a expo 2012 when it was unveiled, then it was meant to be Bristow Group…

When I attended Heli Expo 2020, the final development test vehicle had Norwegian offshore company as launch customer …

And the Teeside company is offshoot of Ace Aeronautics

https://acehawkaerospace.com

cheers
Yes - it's not even certified yet: Bell continues 525 certification push but timeline depends on FAA | News | Flight Global

737Max has probably been a factor in the delays.....
212man is offline  
Old 23rd May 2022, 13:33
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 248
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Mee3......you mean a bit like what the folk at Ace have done?
The stuff Ace have put on Youtube is not cgi - you can ask the Austrians.
That was the whole point of ripping everything out and starting again - to take a great aircraft and make it better for many years to come. Garmin avionics, L3Harris mission controller, GE engines plus a playbook of DAS, CSW etc
JulieAndrews is offline  
Old 23rd May 2022, 13:37
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 248
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Teeside AceHawk is not an 'offshoot' of Ace Aeronautics - not that it matters at this point. From what I read Ace Aero will be a supplier of the airframe and IP. The expensive stuff such as avionics, engines, DAS sourced and fitted through UK outlets?
JulieAndrews is offline  
Old 23rd May 2022, 17:14
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moo moo land
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
What ever is chosen I expect it will be a balls up.. prove me wrong.
lowfat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.