Hill Helicopters HX50
Given the HX50 and HC50 are powered by a gas turbine, wouldn't it be more fair to compare them with an R66?
Using the "Build your R66 Turbine" application on Robinson website, the base model is available for US$1,072,000 which equates to about £853,000. But if you select most high-end optional extras for the R66 the price climbs to US$1,416,000 or about £1,126,000. Perhaps someone can refine the comparison further based on what Hill is offering.
One obvious current difference is that you could presumably acquire your R66 fairly soon, but you would have to await your turn in an increasingly long queue for a HX50 / HC50.
Using the "Build your R66 Turbine" application on Robinson website, the base model is available for US$1,072,000 which equates to about £853,000. But if you select most high-end optional extras for the R66 the price climbs to US$1,416,000 or about £1,126,000. Perhaps someone can refine the comparison further based on what Hill is offering.
One obvious current difference is that you could presumably acquire your R66 fairly soon, but you would have to await your turn in an increasingly long queue for a HX50 / HC50.
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Given the HX50 and HC50 are powered by a gas turbine, wouldn't it be more fair to compare them with an R66?
Using the "Build your R66 Turbine" application on Robinson website, the base model is available for US$1,072,000 which equates to about £853,000. But if you select most high-end optional extras for the R66 the price climbs to US$1,416,000 or about £1,126,000. Perhaps someone can refine the comparison further based on what Hill is offering.
One obvious current difference is that you could presumably acquire your R66 fairly soon, but you would have to await your turn in an increasingly long queue for a HX50 / HC50.
Using the "Build your R66 Turbine" application on Robinson website, the base model is available for US$1,072,000 which equates to about £853,000. But if you select most high-end optional extras for the R66 the price climbs to US$1,416,000 or about £1,126,000. Perhaps someone can refine the comparison further based on what Hill is offering.
One obvious current difference is that you could presumably acquire your R66 fairly soon, but you would have to await your turn in an increasingly long queue for a HX50 / HC50.
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True, I shouldn't even have mentioned HX50. Hargreaves99 compared price of R44 with the HC50, where the intent is that the latter will also be certified. It still boils down to the time taken until you can collect a certified HC50 from the Hill production line.
Personally, having watched a few of the videos, I think it is very gutsy for Jason Hill to have decided years back to design his own helicopter, and then to assemble a substantial team of people to help achieve that dream / goal. I wish them well even if the timescale ends up being longer than they originally forecast.
Personally, having watched a few of the videos, I think it is very gutsy for Jason Hill to have decided years back to design his own helicopter, and then to assemble a substantial team of people to help achieve that dream / goal. I wish them well even if the timescale ends up being longer than they originally forecast.
Given the HX50 and HC50 are powered by a gas turbine, wouldn't it be more fair to compare them with an R66?
Using the "Build your R66 Turbine" application on Robinson website, the base model is available for US$1,072,000 which equates to about £853,000. But if you select most high-end optional extras for the R66 the price climbs to US$1,416,000 or about £1,126,000. Perhaps someone can refine the comparison further based on what Hill is offering.
One obvious current difference is that you could presumably acquire your R66 fairly soon, but you would have to await your turn in an increasingly long queue for a HX50 / HC50.
Using the "Build your R66 Turbine" application on Robinson website, the base model is available for US$1,072,000 which equates to about £853,000. But if you select most high-end optional extras for the R66 the price climbs to US$1,416,000 or about £1,126,000. Perhaps someone can refine the comparison further based on what Hill is offering.
One obvious current difference is that you could presumably acquire your R66 fairly soon, but you would have to await your turn in an increasingly long queue for a HX50 / HC50.
Not only is there absolutely no comparison between the outdated and rather embarrassing R66, which not only costs significantly more to purchase (as you've pointed out), but the R66 needs to be rebuilt every 2,000hrs at a minimum cost of US$397k (£316k) where as the HC50 is good for 5,000hrs. When that is factored in, the absolute base model R66 is going to cost a minimum of £853k + 1.5 rebuilds @ £316k ea = £1327k, nearly double the certified HC50 at £725k. On those numbers it's a bit of a no brainer really. Robinson won't sell another R66 once HC50 becomes available. Even the R44 sales will be virtually wiped out. Their plan? Hope that HC50 never eventuates. Pretty hopeless business model.
And behold Robinsons "state of the art" flagship offering: Seriously Robinson, it's 2023! Get off your lazy arses and start innovating. This is the very reason why Hill exists.
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Can you train for a PPL on "permit to fly"?
Unless you own the aircraft I thought not.
https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviati...self-fly-hire/
Unless you own the aircraft I thought not.
https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviati...self-fly-hire/
Not only is there absolutely no comparison between the outdated and rather embarrassing R66, which not only costs significantly more to purchase (as you've pointed out), but the R66 needs to be rebuilt every 2,000hrs at a minimum cost of US$397k (£316k) where as the HC50 is good for 5,000hrs. When that is factored in, the absolute base model R66 is going to cost a minimum of £853k + 1.5 rebuilds @ £316k ea = £1327k, nearly double the certified HC50 at £725k. On those numbers it's a bit of a no brainer really. Robinson won't sell another R66 once HC50 becomes available. Even the R44 sales will be virtually wiped out. Their plan? Hope that HC50 never eventuates. Pretty hopeless business model.
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From Aviation Week Tony Osborne December 12, 2023
HX50 Light Rotorcraft First Flight Held Up By Lack Of Engine
HX50 Light Rotorcraft First Flight Held Up By Lack Of Engine
With an order backlog of almost 1,000 aircraft and growing, British startup Hill Helicopters has finally lifted the veil on the first prototypes of its HX50 turbine-powered light rotorcraft.
At the debut of the first aircraft during a glitzy event at Duxford, England, on Dec. 6, company founder Jason Hill suggested that his helicopters could also find a role in advanced air mobility ahead of the wider adoption of electric vertical-takeoff-and-landing (eVTOL) aircraft. “People are asking questions about the future of the helicopter,” Hill told customers. “The helicopter has a bright future,” he insisted, but only if aircraft are designed so that those operating them can be “profitable again.”
Hill said helicopters such as the certified variant of the HX50, the HC50, could make commercial operations viable again because of its performance and low costs. “The world will have to wait a little while for the batteries to be good enough to make some of the other [eVTOL] configurations truly economically viable,” he said.
Hill’s Green-VTOL initiative calls for HX/HC50 customers to make use of sustainable aviation fuels, particularly as many of them will operate their helicopters from their homes, requiring them to take delivery of their fuel. Keeping costs down would be possible thanks to what he called “end-to-end control [by the manufacturer] of the purchase costs and spares,” which he said would drive down the cost of insurance.
Ever since he formally launched the company, Hill had set out to challenge the general aviation industry by delivering an aircraft developed primarily for private ownership and making possession of a helicopter as attractive as, for example, buying a high-performance car.
Hill wants to do this by reducing the barriers to ownership and keeping costs down, made possible in part through the complete vertical integration of the company’s supply chain and manufacturing process. This effort includes internal development of the HX/HC50’s propulsion, the 500-shp HT50 engine. However, no engine had been run by the unveiling event, leaving the almost completed aircraft in the unusual position of being without a powerplant.
Although under development for more than a decade through Hill’s other company—Dynamiq Engineering—the engine’s design has had to go through a refresh, previously referred to as GT50 V2.0, a redesign of the combustion system. Engineers are set to imminently begin testing this combustion system to prove out the fuel system for engine start and stable combustion, Hill said. He added that the company now has the experience and materials in-house to cast superalloys for fan blades and engine rotors and produce them at what he called an unprecedented price point.
“Aerospace companies need to be manufacturing companies,” he told customers. “They cannot be technology companies and push the manufacturing out to a third party, because you will lose control of the price point.”
In terms of the engine itself, Hill described it as a “compendium” of the best ideas in turbine engines. “We have done a good job of bringing them together,” he insisted.
Other elements developed in-house include the aircraft’s avionics suite, which can be integrated with a tablet computer for navigation, while haptic controls inform the pilot when limits are being reached.
The current target for first flight of the 1,650-kg (3,600-lb.), five-seat shark-like helicopter is 2024, although Hill’s original timelines called for market entry during 2023. The delays do not seem to have deterred customers—individuals from more than 60 countries have signed up to purchase 789 HX50s and 186 of the certified HC50s.
The HX50 is being made available to buy under the experimental homebuilt category. It is designed to be assembled on Hill’s production line. But the process will require the owners to attend a build course at the company’s factory and participate in the process of building their aircraft—planned to be around two weeks.
The more expensive fully certified HC50—priced at £725,000 ($910,000)—will be identical to the HX50 and built in the same facility. To prepare for the demand, Hill is also gearing up for production of the aircraft.
Original plans called for the conversion of an industrial unit in the English Midlands with production and flight operations on the same site, but the company faced public opposition to the proposals. The company is now hoping for a dual-site approach, with manufacturing in one location and flying operations to be performed at a separate 10-acre site at Halfpenny Green Airfield near Wolverhampton, England.
At the debut of the first aircraft during a glitzy event at Duxford, England, on Dec. 6, company founder Jason Hill suggested that his helicopters could also find a role in advanced air mobility ahead of the wider adoption of electric vertical-takeoff-and-landing (eVTOL) aircraft. “People are asking questions about the future of the helicopter,” Hill told customers. “The helicopter has a bright future,” he insisted, but only if aircraft are designed so that those operating them can be “profitable again.”
Hill said helicopters such as the certified variant of the HX50, the HC50, could make commercial operations viable again because of its performance and low costs. “The world will have to wait a little while for the batteries to be good enough to make some of the other [eVTOL] configurations truly economically viable,” he said.
Hill’s Green-VTOL initiative calls for HX/HC50 customers to make use of sustainable aviation fuels, particularly as many of them will operate their helicopters from their homes, requiring them to take delivery of their fuel. Keeping costs down would be possible thanks to what he called “end-to-end control [by the manufacturer] of the purchase costs and spares,” which he said would drive down the cost of insurance.
Ever since he formally launched the company, Hill had set out to challenge the general aviation industry by delivering an aircraft developed primarily for private ownership and making possession of a helicopter as attractive as, for example, buying a high-performance car.
Hill wants to do this by reducing the barriers to ownership and keeping costs down, made possible in part through the complete vertical integration of the company’s supply chain and manufacturing process. This effort includes internal development of the HX/HC50’s propulsion, the 500-shp HT50 engine. However, no engine had been run by the unveiling event, leaving the almost completed aircraft in the unusual position of being without a powerplant.
Although under development for more than a decade through Hill’s other company—Dynamiq Engineering—the engine’s design has had to go through a refresh, previously referred to as GT50 V2.0, a redesign of the combustion system. Engineers are set to imminently begin testing this combustion system to prove out the fuel system for engine start and stable combustion, Hill said. He added that the company now has the experience and materials in-house to cast superalloys for fan blades and engine rotors and produce them at what he called an unprecedented price point.
“Aerospace companies need to be manufacturing companies,” he told customers. “They cannot be technology companies and push the manufacturing out to a third party, because you will lose control of the price point.”
In terms of the engine itself, Hill described it as a “compendium” of the best ideas in turbine engines. “We have done a good job of bringing them together,” he insisted.
Other elements developed in-house include the aircraft’s avionics suite, which can be integrated with a tablet computer for navigation, while haptic controls inform the pilot when limits are being reached.
The current target for first flight of the 1,650-kg (3,600-lb.), five-seat shark-like helicopter is 2024, although Hill’s original timelines called for market entry during 2023. The delays do not seem to have deterred customers—individuals from more than 60 countries have signed up to purchase 789 HX50s and 186 of the certified HC50s.
The HX50 is being made available to buy under the experimental homebuilt category. It is designed to be assembled on Hill’s production line. But the process will require the owners to attend a build course at the company’s factory and participate in the process of building their aircraft—planned to be around two weeks.
The more expensive fully certified HC50—priced at £725,000 ($910,000)—will be identical to the HX50 and built in the same facility. To prepare for the demand, Hill is also gearing up for production of the aircraft.
Original plans called for the conversion of an industrial unit in the English Midlands with production and flight operations on the same site, but the company faced public opposition to the proposals. The company is now hoping for a dual-site approach, with manufacturing in one location and flying operations to be performed at a separate 10-acre site at Halfpenny Green Airfield near Wolverhampton, England.
don't give people any idea that they can do something they cannot
Strongly disagree. You should absolutely give the pilot all available tools to use. I was recently flying in busy airspace VFR (Middle East), and was actively vectored into cloud for a few tens of minutes. Could not deviate at all due traffic density. Not all VFR pilots are VFR-only. A lot are IFR qualified, or have been. Give me every tool available please.
And to the person saying Airbus displays are better. LOL. You have got to be joking. It's 2023 and they haven't even discovered anti-aliasing for their 4 colour, 1980's pixel art display.
Leisure Suit Larry Land of the Lounge Lizards looked better in 1987 than Airbus VEMD did in 1999, let alone 2023.
Oh yeah this HSI is oozing futuristic themes, the same way my GameBoy was all the rage in 1989:
Avionics functionality has different priorities such as: reliability – visibility – functionality in all conditions. It will take only one of those Hill screen to bail in flight, or not restart when you landed at the top of a mountain for people to love the pixel art "5" color VEMD again.
Last edited by Agile; 14th Dec 2023 at 09:21.
I just don't want to get duped by a better resolution screen or fancy anti aliasing effect. We have enough products in our daily life selling attributes that are overshooting the demand (smart phone in titanium or whatever).
Avionics functionality has different priorities such as: reliability – visibility – functionality in all conditions. It will take only one of those Hill screen to bail in flight, or not restart when you landed at the top of a mountain for people to love the pixel art "5" color VEMD again.
Avionics functionality has different priorities such as: reliability – visibility – functionality in all conditions. It will take only one of those Hill screen to bail in flight, or not restart when you landed at the top of a mountain for people to love the pixel art "5" color VEMD again.
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