Hill Helicopters HX50
hi David, welcome to the forum! Great to have someone of your calibre providing input.
I think we’d all agree that Robinson has fallen a bit behind to date on innovation and would love to know what might now be in the pipeline if you are able to share any teasers with us.
I think we’d all agree that Robinson has fallen a bit behind to date on innovation and would love to know what might now be in the pipeline if you are able to share any teasers with us.
We will be sharing more at this year’s Heli-Expo in Anaheim. Come visit us there!
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What is the engine type..fixed shaft or free turbine...?
Anyone seen a `flying`controls` layout/diagram anywhere....?
Will it have `jack-stall/`transparency` hydraulic system(s)...?
Why the obsession with a` big power ` indicator ,and such small indicator for RRPM...?
In a single-engined helo,with `possibly ``low-inertia` rotorblades,,If the` donk` stops,the lever has to be on it`s way down before any bells/whistles/horns operate,and you need a `Big`RRPM gauge to show you...you will be `cossetted` with ANR/Bluetooth/mobiles/music,so you won`t be aware of RRPM,or accurately fly at min NR, for `range`....
Where is the JPT/TIT gauge,or is that hidden in a `menu somewhere...?
The `attitude`indicator ,roll indicator,and aircraft symbol also need a better `contrast colour` against the `blue-sky..as `someone ` will end up in IMC..
Why does it need another's IAS readout..?it`s there ,on the strip..? same with the Altimeter,,,
U/C warning ,,horn /flashing lights.audio<20kts...?
All these questions.../ any answers..?
Who is in the `frame` for testing...?
OK,tin-hat and flak-jacket,watching for incoming drones,or armoured SUVs at the door...
nearly forgot..does it have a rear camera,and proximity warnings as well...just for parking...?
Anyone seen a `flying`controls` layout/diagram anywhere....?
Will it have `jack-stall/`transparency` hydraulic system(s)...?
Why the obsession with a` big power ` indicator ,and such small indicator for RRPM...?
In a single-engined helo,with `possibly ``low-inertia` rotorblades,,If the` donk` stops,the lever has to be on it`s way down before any bells/whistles/horns operate,and you need a `Big`RRPM gauge to show you...you will be `cossetted` with ANR/Bluetooth/mobiles/music,so you won`t be aware of RRPM,or accurately fly at min NR, for `range`....
Where is the JPT/TIT gauge,or is that hidden in a `menu somewhere...?
The `attitude`indicator ,roll indicator,and aircraft symbol also need a better `contrast colour` against the `blue-sky..as `someone ` will end up in IMC..
Why does it need another's IAS readout..?it`s there ,on the strip..? same with the Altimeter,,,
U/C warning ,,horn /flashing lights.audio<20kts...?
All these questions.../ any answers..?
Who is in the `frame` for testing...?
OK,tin-hat and flak-jacket,watching for incoming drones,or armoured SUVs at the door...
nearly forgot..does it have a rear camera,and proximity warnings as well...just for parking...?
Why do you want anti-icing on a VFR helicopter?
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All very minor details considering there is no working engine/gearbox/rotor/tail rotor
What is the engine type..fixed shaft or free turbine...?
Anyone seen a `flying`controls` layout/diagram anywhere....?
Will it have `jack-stall/`transparency` hydraulic system(s)...?
Why the obsession with a` big power ` indicator ,and such small indicator for RRPM...?
In a single-engined helo,with `possibly ``low-inertia` rotorblades,,If the` donk` stops,the lever has to be on it`s way down before any bells/whistles/horns operate,and you need a `Big`RRPM gauge to show you...you will be `cossetted` with ANR/Bluetooth/mobiles/music,so you won`t be aware of RRPM,or accurately fly at min NR, for `range`....
Where is the JPT/TIT gauge,or is that hidden in a `menu somewhere...?
The `attitude`indicator ,roll indicator,and aircraft symbol also need a better `contrast colour` against the `blue-sky..as `someone ` will end up in IMC..
Why does it need another's IAS readout..?it`s there ,on the strip..? same with the Altimeter,,,
U/C warning ,,horn /flashing lights.audio<20kts...?
All these questions.../ any answers..?
Who is in the `frame` for testing...?
OK,tin-hat and flak-jacket,watching for incoming drones,or armoured SUVs at the door...
nearly forgot..does it have a rear camera,and proximity warnings as well...just for parking...?
Anyone seen a `flying`controls` layout/diagram anywhere....?
Will it have `jack-stall/`transparency` hydraulic system(s)...?
Why the obsession with a` big power ` indicator ,and such small indicator for RRPM...?
In a single-engined helo,with `possibly ``low-inertia` rotorblades,,If the` donk` stops,the lever has to be on it`s way down before any bells/whistles/horns operate,and you need a `Big`RRPM gauge to show you...you will be `cossetted` with ANR/Bluetooth/mobiles/music,so you won`t be aware of RRPM,or accurately fly at min NR, for `range`....
Where is the JPT/TIT gauge,or is that hidden in a `menu somewhere...?
The `attitude`indicator ,roll indicator,and aircraft symbol also need a better `contrast colour` against the `blue-sky..as `someone ` will end up in IMC..
Why does it need another's IAS readout..?it`s there ,on the strip..? same with the Altimeter,,,
U/C warning ,,horn /flashing lights.audio<20kts...?
All these questions.../ any answers..?
Who is in the `frame` for testing...?
OK,tin-hat and flak-jacket,watching for incoming drones,or armoured SUVs at the door...
nearly forgot..does it have a rear camera,and proximity warnings as well...just for parking...?
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Why do you want anti-icing on a VFR helicopter?
Not quite; the 152 hot air is from an exhaust manifold and fed to the carb...
The HX50 presumably will take a `bleed` from the compressor stage,to be fed into the intake casing...However,it could,with suitable `plumbing`,have a similar `manifold` around the exhaust,feeding back to the intake,using `spent` heat,rather than draw power from the compressor...
The HX50 presumably will take a `bleed` from the compressor stage,to be fed into the intake casing...However,it could,with suitable `plumbing`,have a similar `manifold` around the exhaust,feeding back to the intake,using `spent` heat,rather than draw power from the compressor...
Why do you want anti-icing on a VFR helicopter?
, even the VFR B206 manual says anti ice shall be on for flight in visible moisture in temps below 4.4°C.
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Megan, I've seen so many different definitions for conditions where you might experience engine icing over the years, many of which specify either visible moisture or visibility less than 1000m below anything from +10 to 0. 
The Gazelle was used regularly for instrument flying, including airframe icing conditions (when the FM aerials began to wave around it was time to leave) - never had an engine anti ice switch or facility and never, to my knowledge, experienced engine icing.
The Gazelle was used regularly for instrument flying, including airframe icing conditions (when the FM aerials began to wave around it was time to leave) - never had an engine anti ice switch or facility and never, to my knowledge, experienced engine icing.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Megan, I've seen so many different definitions for conditions where you might experience engine icing over the years, many of which specify either visible moisture or visibility less than 1000m below anything from +10 to 0.
The Gazelle was used regularly for instrument flying, including airframe icing conditions (when the FM aerials began to wave around it was time to leave) - never had an engine anti ice switch or facility and never, to my knowledge, experienced engine icing.
The Gazelle was used regularly for instrument flying, including airframe icing conditions (when the FM aerials began to wave around it was time to leave) - never had an engine anti ice switch or facility and never, to my knowledge, experienced engine icing.
I am fairly sure the Gazelle did, it was provided by the heat of the engine oil around the intake, so not a selectable system. Also, many VFR machines have anti icing for the engine, eg Carb Heat. Similar to Pitot Heat heat that may be required below 10 deg
So not in fact an anti icing system then?
Carb heat for a piston engine is essential since you can get carb icing (not engine icing) at high OAT with very high humidity - engine anti-icing isn't required on a VFR turbine.
crab, do our turbine VFR machines, eg B206, only have anti icing because tests have shown they need it to comply? Are you aware of any VFR turbine without anti icing? Just curious.
t§ 27.1093 Induction system icing protection.
(b) Turbine engine.(1) It must be shown that each turbine engine and its air inlet system can operate throughout the flight power range of the engine (including idling)—
(i) Without accumulating ice on engine or inlet system components that would adversely affect engine operation or cause a serious loss of power under the icing conditions specified in appendix C of Part 29 of this chapter; and
(ii) In snow, both falling and blowing, without adverse effect on engine operation, within the limitations established for the rotorcraft.
(2) Each turbine engine must idle for 30 minutes on the ground, with the air bleed available for engine icing protection at its critical condition, without adverse effect, in an atmosphere that is at a temperature between 15° and 30 °F (between −9° and −1 °C) and has a liquid water content not less than 0.3 gram per cubic meter in the form of drops having a mean effective diameter not less than 20 microns, followed by momentary operation at takeoff power or thrust. During the 30 minutes of idle operation, the engine may be run up periodically to a moderate power or thrust setting in a manner acceptable to the Administrator.
t§ 27.1093 Induction system icing protection.
(b) Turbine engine.(1) It must be shown that each turbine engine and its air inlet system can operate throughout the flight power range of the engine (including idling)—
(i) Without accumulating ice on engine or inlet system components that would adversely affect engine operation or cause a serious loss of power under the icing conditions specified in appendix C of Part 29 of this chapter; and
(ii) In snow, both falling and blowing, without adverse effect on engine operation, within the limitations established for the rotorcraft.
(2) Each turbine engine must idle for 30 minutes on the ground, with the air bleed available for engine icing protection at its critical condition, without adverse effect, in an atmosphere that is at a temperature between 15° and 30 °F (between −9° and −1 °C) and has a liquid water content not less than 0.3 gram per cubic meter in the form of drops having a mean effective diameter not less than 20 microns, followed by momentary operation at takeoff power or thrust. During the 30 minutes of idle operation, the engine may be run up periodically to a moderate power or thrust setting in a manner acceptable to the Administrator.
Megan - I would guess it depends on the limitations in the RFM, if it says you can't fly in certain visibilities, certain temperature ranges or certain weather conditions where icing may occur then you won't need the extra protection.
There is obviously a difference between inlet protection provided by the design of the engine - ie hot oil in the tank around the compressor inlet - and a selectable air bleed or electrical system designed to give additional protection in icing conditions. That is why I asked the question about a selectable systems on the HX50 when it is marketed as a VFR machine that most owners will never take into snow or operate in very low temperatures.
There is obviously a difference between inlet protection provided by the design of the engine - ie hot oil in the tank around the compressor inlet - and a selectable air bleed or electrical system designed to give additional protection in icing conditions. That is why I asked the question about a selectable systems on the HX50 when it is marketed as a VFR machine that most owners will never take into snow or operate in very low temperatures.
I’m glad other helicopter manufacturers are following HX50 progress. Disruption usually happens from an outsider, because businesses never make new products that compete internally with their cash cow.
If anything hopefully this project will force the entire industry to lift their game instead of raising prices every year on their 40 year old designs, and sourcing revenue from gouging customers with manufacturer recommended calendar life rebuild kits.
Yes it’s a large uphill slog, but it’s not like it hasn’t been done before. Remember HX just has to work (admittedly well, and for 5000hrs to avoid warranties). HC can take all the years it needs for the certification program in parallel.
If anything hopefully this project will force the entire industry to lift their game instead of raising prices every year on their 40 year old designs, and sourcing revenue from gouging customers with manufacturer recommended calendar life rebuild kits.
Yes it’s a large uphill slog, but it’s not like it hasn’t been done before. Remember HX just has to work (admittedly well, and for 5000hrs to avoid warranties). HC can take all the years it needs for the certification program in parallel.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
That is why I asked the question about a selectable systems on the HX50 when it is marketed as a VFR machine that most owners will never take into snow or operate in very low temperatures.
i.e every MD500 and Bell 206 and 206L ever built plus the Robinson R66 all have selectable engine anti-ice installed.
The limitations are roughly < 5C and moisture visible - you don't need to be in the moisture, just if you can see any.
I would guess that is a very common scenario in the UK and elsewhere.
Looking at the Hill engine design and the way the compressor is supported I don't see how it would be any different.
VFR certification has no influence.
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RVDT - thanks, I'm not a Bell driver so didn't know they designed their engines with selectable engine anti-ice.
However, for moisture to affect your engine you must surely be in it rathe than looking at it?
A shower 5 miles away is visible moisture but wouldn't affect you unless you flew into it.
Yes, less than 5 deg C with moisture is pretty common in UK during winter unfortunately
However, for moisture to affect your engine you must surely be in it rathe than looking at it?
A shower 5 miles away is visible moisture but wouldn't affect you unless you flew into it.
Yes, less than 5 deg C with moisture is pretty common in UK during winter unfortunately
Originally Posted by [email protected];[url=tel:11558517
11558517[/url]]RVDT - thanks, I'm not a Bell driver so didn't know they designed their engines with selectable engine anti-ice.
However, for moisture to affect your engine you must surely be in it rathe than looking at it?
A shower 5 miles away is visible moisture but wouldn't affect you unless you flew into it.
Yes, less than 5 deg C with moisture is pretty common in UK during winter unfortunately
However, for moisture to affect your engine you must surely be in it rathe than looking at it?
A shower 5 miles away is visible moisture but wouldn't affect you unless you flew into it.
Yes, less than 5 deg C with moisture is pretty common in UK during winter unfortunately
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This seems bogus
From the hill site: HDC is the user gateway to our operating and support platform for each and every
HX50 and owner. Our pioneering Hill Cloud and App services deliver the Hill Active Safety Management (HASM) system providing an all-new, streamlined and proactive approach flight safety for private owners. HASM delivers electronic management of the aircraft, licensing, pilot status and logs, along with our cloud-based flight data and video recording system that delivers active pilot oversight, safety monitoring, mentoring and support.
What do you all think of this? Sounds like you will only lease a hill helicopter and not actually own it?
HX50 and owner. Our pioneering Hill Cloud and App services deliver the Hill Active Safety Management (HASM) system providing an all-new, streamlined and proactive approach flight safety for private owners. HASM delivers electronic management of the aircraft, licensing, pilot status and logs, along with our cloud-based flight data and video recording system that delivers active pilot oversight, safety monitoring, mentoring and support.
What do you all think of this? Sounds like you will only lease a hill helicopter and not actually own it?