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Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club

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Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club

Old 31st Oct 2018, 01:04
  #301 (permalink)  
 
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This all makes you think why bother these landings and take-off inside stadiums in general against having a helipad either on the roof or outside the bowl. Your are not in a good spot if something goes south, even if you are using a new high performance state of the art twin.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 01:48
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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A YouTube of the crash footage, to avoid having to go to the tabloids:


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Old 31st Oct 2018, 01:55
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jeepys
As Malabo said this was a well flown departure all the way and one which I would expect from a professional pilot with experience...
Yep, I agree. But they seemed awfully high on the way up when things suddenly went pear shaped, given what I can make out of the height of the obstacles in the take-off path.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 02:17
  #304 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rotorrookie
This all makes you think why bother these landings and take-off inside stadiums in general against having a helipad either on the roof or outside the bowl. Your are not in a good spot if something goes south, even if you are using a new high performance state of the art twin.
Tell us a good helipad that could have survived this accident at the rate of descent they experienced?
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 03:07
  #305 (permalink)  
 
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Turned the volume right up and couldn't hear any bang or grinding noise as reported by some eyewitnesses.
They may have heard main rotor blade slap and mistaken it for the sound of mechanical failure.
I assume a drive shaft can break or TR gearbox fail without any audible sound at that distance.
Chilling video to watch.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 04:45
  #306 (permalink)  
 
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In the very beginning of the video, is that just a puff of condensation when they start?
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 05:56
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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Yep, I agree. But they seemed awfully high on the way up when things suddenly went pear shaped, given what I can make out of the height of the obstacles in the take-off path.
Perhaps he increased his TDP height on departure because it was at night, in order to compensate for the light into dark scenario and to give him a better chance of flyaway (ironically).
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 06:17
  #308 (permalink)  
 
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I don't understand. Just watched the video. The aircraft is rotating clockwise (viewed from above). Surely that's the SAME as the rotor rotation? Or does the 139 have US-style anti-clockwise rotor?

As a medium-time PPL-H I've thought a lot about this accident (like everyone else :-( ). I guess if you lose the TR at low altitude like this, you're pointing where you're pointing (even if you bring the yaw under control) and going where you're going. At altitude you can turn with cyclic, but no time for that here. So unless you have exceptionally good luck, it's not going to end well.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 06:33
  #309 (permalink)  
 
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Yes the 139 and 169 (this was a 169) have a counter clockwise rotor.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 06:50
  #310 (permalink)  

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The YouTube video shows what appears to be a normal Class 1 helipad departure followed by a tail rotor drive failure.

The aircraft was flown in a controlled manner to altitude but then yawed slightly to the right. There was a slight pause, then a more rapid yaw set in. Typical for that sort of a failure.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 06:51
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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n5296s - you need speed to retain directional control without the TR and, if you haven't got any speed, you need a lot of height to dive on that speed - he had neither!

If you have ever seen the video of the Wessex going into a Welsh lake many years ago - a colleague of mine was flying it and he had the failure at 60 kts and 1000' - he still ended up in a horrendous spiral descent.

jumpseater - I'd be very surprised if it was disorientation but less surprised if it was a medical issue.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 07:07
  #312 (permalink)  
 
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I hesitate to say this, but if it is a TR Drive/Low power Hard over, he seems to take a long time to react. Many rotations under near hover power before the descent takes place.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 07:13
  #313 (permalink)  
 
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CRAB in the Wessex event, did he keep the power on and cushion into the lake?
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 07:21
  #314 (permalink)  
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Link to video of the Wessex accident at Llyn Padarn in August 1993.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 07:31
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STB -Thanks for the link. Looks “Power On” Crab are you able to confirm?
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 07:41
  #316 (permalink)  
 
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If you watch the video you can see something fast going down from the helicopter to the lower left in the video. Seconds after that the turn starts
Part from helicopter?
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 07:50
  #317 (permalink)  
 
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I was an RAF Engineer Officer involved at the periphery of the Wessex crash.

Attached below is the summary of the accident report.

There are several Youtube videos, just search 'llyn padarn helicopter crash' (I'm too new to post a link here).
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
XR524_AccidentSummary.pdf (599.3 KB, 152 views)
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 08:00
  #318 (permalink)  
 
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What material are the tail rotor blades made from?
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 08:04
  #319 (permalink)  
 
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Preparing for the worst

When teaching TR Fail (drive fail or worse) in the 139 sim I first caution the candidates about taking care not to take too much detail away with them after this exercise - the sim cannot be relied upon to truly replicate the real event. In any case, as the UK CAA research has shown, there are a variety of failure modes that result in loss of directional control. There are, however, one or two elements of the training that are worthy of remembering and putting to good use in the event that you do suffer the loss of directional control and it applies throughout the flight phases - take-off, transition and cruise. That vital action is to quickly lower the collective fully. The second vital action is to close down the engines if in transition to facilitate a pitch-pull prior to ground contact. Failure to do this will result in making the situation worse during the 'arrival' at terra firma. In the cruise, you have more options provided you have been quick enough lowering the collective and are not spinning. It's possible to make use of the engine power to reduce RoD if required but by 500 ft the engines should be off. We see a perfect application of these principles when a 139 threw a blade in Macau. It works, but your reaction has to be instantaneous and to condition yourself for such a horrific event you need to practice - a number of times - in a good quality Full FLight Sim. If the loss of directional control occurs in the hover just lower the collective immediately an close down the engines after you are safely down.
G

Last edited by Geoffersincornwall; 31st Oct 2018 at 08:06. Reason: typo
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 08:16
  #320 (permalink)  
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Looking at that, I dont think it is something off the helicopter. It is travelling much too fast and more likely to be something flying past or being blown past, much closer to the camera.
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