Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club

Old 31st Oct 2018, 11:41
  #341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,321
Received 622 Likes on 270 Posts
STB -Thanks for the link. Looks “Power On” Crab are you able to confirm?
DB - you can see the rate of rotation slow at about 300' whuich is when he speed selected the engines to idle - he said the most difficult thing was judging at what height to cushion the touchdown, he said he did it a bit too high - I think he did a pretty good job since most on board survived but it was unfortunate that it went in slightly backwards with about a 25g impact.

Stagger -
It was a dark, cold evening - you won't find too many insects flying around in these conditions.
except around hot, bright stadium lights......
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 11:41
  #342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,120
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
[QUOTE=jeepys;10297648]
Originally Posted by Pittsextra
Saw this & final report..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6vWraEkVkY

https://www.fomento.gob.es/recursos_...boletin_03.pdf[/QUOTE

Does it mention in the report TR failure?
No LTE. You can read the report in English towards the rear of the bulletin. There are of course other contributory factors but like is so often the case unless you are internal to the daily ops you only find out how people are living after these kind of accidents. Who knows if this Spanish accident is relevant but it does seem to have quite a few similarities?
Pittsextra is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 11:43
  #343 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 1,659
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Flying Bull
If you watch the video you can see something fast going down from the helicopter to the lower left in the video. Seconds after that the turn starts
Part from helicopter?

watch the clip carefully then a repetitive playback of just at what I believe to be TDP at around 53-56 seconds. not this earlier one. watch carefully in the top left corner of the picture. then take a look at the photos in the newspapers of one of the three tail rotor blades which looks ripped off. is that the blade departing?
helimutt is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 11:45
  #344 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 419 Likes on 221 Posts
Originally Posted by VintageEngineer
I was an RAF Engineer Officer involved at the periphery of the Wessex crash.

Attached below is the summary of the accident report.

There are several Youtube videos, just search 'llyn padarn helicopter crash' (I'm too new to post a link here).
It's notable that RAF Wessex crews at that time had no simulator training.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 12:03
  #345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South of France
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
except around hot, bright stadium lights......
Which are about 20 metres up from the camera position..so that insect would have to be rather large...I just find it a strange coincidence that from all the available space on the screen image, a bug appears to fly out from where the TR is located.

watch carefully in the top left corner of the picture.
It does indeed appear to be from the same trajectory as the first quick movement across the screen.

However as has been pointed out, one would have thought that by now, there would have been reports of debris landing in the stadium.
strake is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 12:05
  #346 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northants
Age: 44
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by helimutt
watch the clip carefully then a repetitive playback of just at what I believe to be TDP at around 53-56 seconds. not this earlier one. watch carefully in the top left corner of the picture. then take a look at the photos in the newspapers of one of the three tail rotor blades which looks ripped off. is that the blade departing?
When you play it back at quarter speed you can see it turn through nearly 90 degrees before exiting the top of the frame. Like Nige, I am firmly in the bug camp.
KarlADrage is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 12:12
  #347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: monkey_do
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by XN593
In the YouTube video the anti-collision light is clearly visible as are it's reflections under the main rotors. As control is lost the light seems to extinguish. Is it just me and my phone?
The anticoll on the AW169 sits on a main bus which is shed during double generator failure.
monkey_see is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:00
  #348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by helimutt
watch the clip carefully then a repetitive playback of just at what I believe to be TDP at around 53-56 seconds. not this earlier one. watch carefully in the top left corner of the picture. then take a look at the photos in the newspapers of one of the three tail rotor blades which looks ripped off. is that the blade departing?

the third blade is likely burnt from the fire, but the wait and see camp wont want to hear that until some form of scientific testing is completed in 2030.
GrayHorizonsHeli is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:01
  #349 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 514
Received 21 Likes on 14 Posts
Another expert has been wheeled out

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-46044277

near vertical apparently as he wanted forward speed??? I hang my head in shame...
helicrazi is online now  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:11
  #350 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Learmount. For it is he....
dukiematic is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:13
  #351 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 75
Posts: 18,286
Received 500 Likes on 208 Posts
A for what it is worth.....in this video....a Sikorsky S-58T lifting an AirCon from a RoofTop suffers a Tail Rotor Drive failure.....memory serves me the drive shaft couplings stripped causing the loss of drive with no components departing the aircraft.

I talked with the Pilot shortly after the event and he said he jettisoned the load and began to maneuver the aircraft towards a safe landing area and upon getting to a point he thought he could make an autorotation....he cut the engines.

When he lowered the nose to gain some airspeed to be able to flare.....is when it went all wrong.

He was genuinely remorseful when he said he regretted not being able to save the aircraft.

SASless is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:24
  #352 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 616
Received 61 Likes on 35 Posts
Without any implication with respect to the current accident, the pilot in the Wessex Welsh lake video seems to have done an outstanding job given the circumstances. Looks as though they managed to check some of the yaw and get some directional control before accepting more yaw and a reduced ROD and forward speed.

All the videos all show that once the yaw has accelerated following a serious anti-torque problem, stopping it is going to be extremely difficult, even with a lot of height.
Torquetalk is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:27
  #353 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bourton-on-the-Water
Posts: 1,017
Received 16 Likes on 7 Posts
Another expert has been wheeled out
It's not just another expert, helicrazi. As dukiematic says, it's Learmount (David). And you might not know, but the Honourable Company of Air Pilots (used to be GAPAN) has just given him its Award for Aviation Journalism.

airsound
airsound is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:33
  #354 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Learmount.....
Echo Romeo is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:39
  #355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Learmount, nearly as bad as Jim Ferguson, sadly with slightly more media street cred.

SND
Sir Niall Dementia is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:56
  #356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I’m not defending Learmount but as someone who has done his fair share of punditry let me tell you what the media is looking for. They want a very complicated subject explained in two minutes in a way that 99% of the population will understand. This is while, depending on where you are being interviewed, someone is talking in your ear and you’re trying not to think of how many million are listening to you making an ar*e of yourself. Not as easy as you think.
runway30 is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:57
  #357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The fast moving spec seen at 46 sec is, Imo, not a part of the aircraft. However the falling object appearing on the left at 54 sec's and disappearing into the floodlight glare at 58 is of more interest.
Echo Romeo is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 13:57
  #358 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 661
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by jeepys
The autopilot will only have max 10% authority.
Hi Jeep’s
An autopilot with only 10% authority wouldn’t be much use as an autopilot. Individual series actuators typically have 10-15% authority with two actuators in series giving 30% (ish), this is then usually extended to 100% authority by use of parallel actuators. I totally agree an actuator runaway will be limited by its authority.
I‘m not suggesting any of this is relevant in this case.
Cheers TeeS
TeeS is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 14:08
  #359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 616
Received 61 Likes on 35 Posts
Originally Posted by Torquetalk
Without any implication with respect to the current accident, the pilot in the Wessex Welsh lake video seems to have done an outstanding job given the circumstances. Looks as though they managed to check some of the yaw and get some directional control before accepting more yaw and a reduced ROD and forward speed.

All the videos all show that once the yaw has accelerated following a serious anti-torque problem, stopping it is going to be extremely difficult, even with a lot of height.
Aircraft type would also appear to play an important role in the rate of yaw development and prospects for recovery. The lake and hoist videos show quite rapid yaw arrest in response to control inputs. It makes me wonder if some aircraft are harder to get back, with the AW139 & AW169 more at that end of the spectrum.
Torquetalk is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2018, 15:01
  #360 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Heathrow
Age: 37
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just worth noting that I know someone who was still at the game and has been to several and seen the helicopter take off.

apparently, it was all normal (including that first initial yaw input when it first looks controlled). You cannot make it out too well in the video, but the gear retracts and it begins a rotation - apparently as it always did.. At that point it never seems to recover.

im no expert and could be coincidence - but could that suggest a peddle / input problem. He stated that it actually didn’t sound too out of the ordinary. The strange noise people seem to be referring to from what he saw was the pitch of the blades against the air as it began to rotate seemingly uncontrollably.

just thought I’d share to maybe shed some insight from someone who has some basic understanding of aircraft / rotors rather than just a regular member of the public.

it maybe a result of the cause rather than the cause itself, but thought I’d share it with people much more knowledgeable than myself.

Last edited by RiSq; 31st Oct 2018 at 15:09. Reason: spelling
RiSq is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.