Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Helicopter crashed at Perth Airport

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Helicopter crashed at Perth Airport

Reply

Old 13th Mar 2018, 14:15
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: scotland
Posts: 40
Helicopter crashed at Perth Airport

Training helicopter crashed at Scotland Perth Airport this morning, injuring one person.
Attached Images
ericsson16 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 15:43
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,933
You can't blame the pilot; it happened to an unlucky engineer.

Helicopter accident at Perth Airport - BBC News
Fareastdriver is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 15:51
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 6,701
An engineer doing rotors running ground runs......surely not.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 16:29
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: England
Posts: 112
Is an engineer who is not a pilot allowed to to have the rotors running without a pilot in the aircraft? Hope heís ok 👍🏻
valve guide is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 16:39
  #5 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wycombe, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 66
Posts: 3,542
As long as there is no intent of flight, which includes taxying

CAT.GEN.MPA.130
paco is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 16:42
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: England
Posts: 221
The photo above, and the BBC's first photo, show the aircraft on its side with no foam around it. The BBC's second photo shows the aircraft upright surrounded by foam - did they right it and then think it might catch fire, or was on fire, and get the fire people to douse it? In any case, after an accident causing injury, should it have been moved before the AAIB had a chance to look at it?
OldLurker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 16:46
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: N of 49th parallel
Posts: 106
The problem with the regulation is that a rotor-engaged helicopter is capable of flight or dynamic rollover very easily when compared to a fixed wing. It's one of those EASA rules that is not safety based, but one based purely on expediency!

For me, this accident is one of those "I told you so" moments.
Apate is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 16:59
  #8 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 11,405
I've always been told that it's perfectly safe for an engineer/mechanic to ground run helicopters. What has always made me have a different opinion is that post maintenance ground runs are when mistakes might easily be made, not least because the engineering requirements might be at variance with a normal start configuration. I got caught out once in a twin when the aircraft suddenly began "padding" laterally after the first engine start, just as the rotors came up to speed. I had to lift off immediately, single engine, to prevent ground resonance, which very much surprised the ground crew standing just outside the rotor disc and resulted in an MOR being filed. I know of an almost identical incident where the aircraft was badly damaged, not because the aircraft was lifted off, but because it was put back down again "rather enthusiastically".

Last edited by ShyTorque; 13th Mar 2018 at 17:10.
ShyTorque is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 17:04
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brantisvogan
Posts: 233
There are plenty of opportunities for a ground run to go wrong, the Robbo isn't any different.
From the collective creeping up, accidentally disabling hydraulics on that silly switch to getting caught out by the governor engaging (if not set to manual).
Not having a qualified pilot at the controls of an aircraft running at flight RPM seems like an accident waiting to happen.
Robbie pilots can't be in such short supply to justify this approach.
One very lucky technician, one very annoyed owner.
Bell_ringer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 17:40
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: England
Posts: 112
I note the aircraft was over 12 years old and itís ARC wasnít current. I suspect it was getting a rebuild or overhaul. The rules seem crazy. I pass my ppl (H) and not allowed to fly until the paperwork comes through but an engineer can sit in the pilots seat, start the helicopter and get it up to flight rpm without a pilots licence. Thank god no one was killed.
valve guide is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 17:44
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The sky mainly
Posts: 221
For me, this accident is one of those "I told you so" moments.
Why? What did you tell us?

In my 31 years in the business, this is the first accident I've heard of with an engineer at the controls. I've seen 2 ground runs go horribly wrong with pilots at the controls.
Sky Sports is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 18:14
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 626
Ground running was discussed a couple of years ago
Helicopter Ground-Runs Performed by Engineers/Mechanics
and you even find rules in some country
https://www.casa.gov.au/file/117966/...token=8rns5oOS
or
http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/nqfdocs/units/doc/22888.doc
Flying Bull is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 18:38
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: N of 49th parallel
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by Sky Sports View Post
Why? What did you tell us?

In my 31 years in the business, this is the first accident I've heard of with an engineer at the controls. I've seen 2 ground runs go horribly wrong with pilots at the controls.
Sorry, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to say any more.....
Apate is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 18:41
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 59
Posts: 61
Sky Sports... you must have missed this one then !

in July 2015 a Gazelle (details on aviation safety network) was being ground run by an engineer and became airborne, result.... pretty much destroyed.
helipixman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 19:04
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
An engineer doing rotors running ground runs......surely not.
Really? There's no mystery or secret decoder ring needed to run a helicopter. Mechanics have been ground running helicopters around the GOM for decades. Sure a few have tried to earn their wings or dinged one up but it's not rocket science. How else would you get the aircraft ready for a first-light departure to earn revenue?
wrench1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 19:15
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 6,701
Er - get a pilot in early to do it.

A helicopter is essentially flying when the rotors are running so the intent to fly is already there.

Absolutely barking, just to try and save some money.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 20:26
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 619
I realise itís impossible to imagine but some engineers actually hold a pilotís licence. Perhaps the unfortunate person involved in this incident, did.

As for moving it before the AAIB visited - they may well have given permission for it to be moved and are more than likely not going to travel to Perth to see the helicopter anyway.

Who knows....?

PS Re the ARC bring expired. Not important for a ground run but even if the ARC had been renewed, G-INFO wouldnít show the updated info until the following midnight when the system updates.
smarthawke is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 20:51
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: N of 49th parallel
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by smarthawke View Post
I realise itís impossible to imagine but some engineers actually hold a pilotís licence. Perhaps the unfortunate person involved in this incident, did.
Possible - for sure. Likely - nope.
Apate is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 21:13
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: England
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by smarthawke View Post
I realise itís impossible to imagine but some engineers actually hold a pilotís licence. Perhaps the unfortunate person involved in this incident, did.

As for moving it before the AAIB visited - they may well have given permission for it to be moved and are more than likely not going to travel to Perth to see the helicopter anyway.

Who knows....?

PS Re the ARC bring expired. Not important for a ground run but even if the ARC had been renewed, G-INFO wouldnít show the updated info until the following midnight when the system updates.
He did not hold a pilots licence. I mentioned the expired ARC and age of the helicopter to point out that I felt some major work was likely to have been getting done which may or may not had something to do with the accident not as to whether it was legal or not to do a ground run. Itís common sense that you have to be able to do a ground run if the ARC has expired 🙄🙄🙄
valve guide is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 21:17
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The sky mainly
Posts: 221
I hold both licences.
Sky Sports is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service