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Bristow S76 Ditched in Nigeria today Feb 3 2016

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Bristow S76 Ditched in Nigeria today Feb 3 2016

Old 22nd Feb 2016, 13:07
  #261 (permalink)  

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Absolutely Concur

HC,



Lots of cliches come to mind (People in glass houses etc, There but for the Grace of etc)

NEO
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Old 22nd Feb 2016, 14:32
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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Absolute Rubbish!

Originally Posted by HeliComparator
If this was say a UK crew, and the sort of comments we are reading on here were in the UK press, there would be outrage on here along the lines of not speculating about the cause and blame for an accident before the proper story was known. But it seems that if you are Nigerian you are guilty by default on here.

Maybe there was crew error, maybe not, but at this stage we don't know so why not cut the crew a bit of slack as we would do if they were white?
The unfortunate truth is hard to swallow I'm afraid ! Say did you hear that NATO has recommended that all future advance training of 2 of its tactical helicopter squadrons deployed in Easter Europe should only be trained by Nigerian military pilots ( probably due to the superior training they receive)

If you cannot fly a circuit with the AP off on a 76 you should not fly the 76.

Bahhh
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Old 22nd Feb 2016, 15:38
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah, this forum never sees white male pilots getting publicly skewered for a stupid mistake that may or may not have killed them and everyone on board.
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Old 22nd Feb 2016, 21:27
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@RyRy: you're wrong. That white male pilot who flew into a crane in bad weather in London a couple of years ago got publicly skewered here pretty good. If I recall. For example.
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Old 22nd Feb 2016, 23:16
  #265 (permalink)  
 
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NCAA has ordered all airlines operating the Sikorsky S76C series to carry out safety

NCAA Orders Immediate Safety Inspections On Sikorsky S76C Helicopters

By Samson Echenim
— Feb 22, 2016 4:28 am The Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) has ordered all airlines operating the Sikorsky S76C series to carry out safety inspections on the helicopter type with immediate effect.
The directive came two weeks after the aviation regulatory agency suspended operation of the Sikorsky S76C++ in the country, following two crashes within an interval of only six months and involving same type of helicopter operated by Bristow Helicopter Services in Nigeria.
The NCAA yesterday said as an interim safety measure, the under-listed safety inspections affects all Sikorsky S76C series helicopters operating in Nigeria.
They include Visual Inspection in accordance with relevant S76C AMM 20-32-00; detailed inspection in accordance with relevant S76C AMM 66-00-00 and detailed inspection in accordance with relevant S76C AMM 66-10-00, 66-20-00, 66-30-00, 66-40-00.

“The Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) wants to reiterate that it will not leave any stone unturned to ensure that air transport is safe and secure in Nigeria,” the NCAA noted in the statement signed by its general manager, Public Affairs, Mr Sam Adurogboye"


What these inspections are? Can this be a lead where the root case actually is?
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 08:34
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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@RyRy: you're wrong. That white male pilot who flew into a crane in bad weather in London a couple of years ago got publicly skewered here pretty good. If I recall. For example.
I may be wrong, but I suspect RyRy was being facetious.....
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 09:03
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Chapter 66 is normally the blade folding system but maybe different on Sikorskys as I recall their AMM's being very different to 'proper' ones!
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 09:16
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Chapter 66 for the Sikorsky S76 is the Powertrain, main gear box, intermediate and tail gear box , tail rotor drive shafts, rotor brake system, electrical system for the gear boxes ( chip detectors, pressure , temp, warning sensors on the main gear box).


From what I understand the authorities want an enhanced inspection of the flight controls and drivetrain.


Reading between the lines they are not sure what happened and want the aircraft critical systems inspected until they figure it out.
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 10:50
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From what I understand the authorities want an enhanced inspection of the flight controls and drivetrain.

Reading between the lines they are not sure what happened and want the aircraft critical systems inspected until they figure it out.
It is interesting to know how these State of the Art offshore helicopter companies are addressing this risk on their Safety Management System? The risk, an accident that seems to repeat, and associated loss of controllability of the helicopter?

This risk should be taken account in Safety Management System that "S76 could lost its controllability and will come unflyable". This is a Safety risk and predicted probability and severity must be evaluated. If the consequence is the most likely the fatal and probability x time per 1.000.000 flight hours then the outcome will be "RED RISK". The question after this is: how this risk can be mitigated? At the moment I can't see any possibility to mitigate this risk if these aircrafts will be flying?

This will not be limited for SMS/Safety Manager this will be also the matter of TC holder's. What is the TC's holders should create emergency instructions for safe recovery of aircraft in the event where a S76 will lose its controllability and helicopter steering will come illogical?

At least S76 accidents in 1986 in Sutton (4 kills) , 10th of August 2005 Copterline (14 kills) , August 12 Bristow Nigeria (6 kills) and 3 February 2016 (no causalities).

The available information about the last 3rd of February, 2016 accident is supporting assumption that all of these accidents are related loss of helicopter controllability. This is a serious situation and not acceptable that helicopter has a risk to come suddenly unflyable without any warning or any cautions. We are talking about a helicopter which is certified under requirements of Transport Category Helicopter.

This will be the matter what Safety Mangers who are responsible for S76 operations should take account.
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 11:30
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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@ Copterline 103: I think each of those S76 accidents mentioned were unique of themselves. Except for 3 February which we only have to speculate on, but fair chance I reckon it will be unique of itself also.

If a MR blade comes off in flight, dual servo actuator failure, flight control rod coming undone, all those things will result in the loss of the aircraft. Each of which has only happened once in the whole fleet since it first went into service over 35 years ago (as far as I know). Unfortunately for the crews concerned it happened to them, and there was nothing they could do to prevent the outcome.

Not just the S76. AW139 has had tail booms fall off, and TR blades depart the scene in-flight. It can happen to any aircraft. Sometimes bad luck strikes, when crossing the road, flying helicopters, and anything else we might do in life.
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 11:40
  #271 (permalink)  
 
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If a MR blade comes off in flight
only happened once in the whole fleet
It depends if you include G-BJVX (https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aar-...x-16-july-2002) although I agree with you that each one is unique and cannot be grouped into one 'risk'.
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 12:24
  #272 (permalink)  
 
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The S76 is a safe aircraft. Esso has been operating them in Australia putting 10,000 hours per year onto their fleet for 35 years. They haven't lost a single aircraft, not even put one in the water. And before that, Bell 212 and B412. And before that, Bell 205 and Bell 47. 46 years total operating in the Bass Strait oilfields, with weather similar to the North Sea, not a single accident. Offshore helicopter flying can be a safe endeavour with the right people and the right systems in place.
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 12:37
  #273 (permalink)  
 
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only happened once in the whole fleet
This for sure if that only happen once in the whole fleet. But if you consider all accidnents and also all incidents reported and unreported the the case could be different.

If these kind of identified risks will be e.g. in automotive industry the reactions and the actions will be different. I have been earlier naive that in the aviation the safety is always the first.

I'm counting on the NCAA and Nigerian AIB that they will dig it out what is the root case. My tip is to condider the Mixing Units design "it really mixing the helicopter's controllability if any malfuntions happen in the helicopters's flight controls system".

More than 700 units of S76 still flying and the most likely this 3rd February, 2016 accident is not the last one (related the loss of helicopter controllability). I hope that I'm wrong.
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 12:51
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Copterline 103

Copterline,

Are you always so cheerful?

Trog
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 13:07
  #275 (permalink)  
 
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The mixing unit on the S76 is the most ingenious component on the whole aircraft. It was designed by a guy using a slide rule. There is no way Sikorsky will change the design of the mixing unit. No way.
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 13:38
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And why would they? It may be complex but it works just fine.
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 15:24
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The mixing unit on the S76 is the most ingenious component on the whole aircraft. It was designed by a guy using a slide rule
The tale I heard (I assume apocryphal, but maybe true!) was that he ended up in an asylum afterwards!
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 16:09
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I hear that was after he'd looked at the mixing system on the Westland WG30, which was amazing.

S.76 still a very safe aircraft though. Accidents occasionally happen, sad but true.

Sq
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 16:17
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Mixing unit

Heard the same tale!
After looking at the one in FSI WPB for a long, long time I concluded he was already in the asylum when he designed it!
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Old 23rd Feb 2016, 17:15
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...he is now in the cemetery, unfortunately. I recall Nick Lappos pay tribute to him on the forum here a few years ago.

Anyway, my point being, anybody who comes on here and suggests the mixing unit might need to be re-designed might not know the S76 very well. What is the proposed alternative, rip out all the mechanical stuff and replace it with a fly-by-wire computer? I hope not, everybody enjoys those before and after mixing unit jam malfunctions in the simulator! Makes for hours and hours of interesting observations when I'm teaching the stuff.

Remember. Jam after the mixing unit, control inputs have no effect on tail rotor control, expect pedal inputs to cause movement of the collective. Jam before the mixing unit, you still have collective yaw coupling control (tail rotor pitch changes normally with collective movement). With either of these jam malfunction you can still safely land the aircraft, preferrably on a nice long runway, but certainly do not attempt a landing on the water. This causes a lot of confusion. I don't know why.

p.s. I'm not speculating this crew had this malfunction.

Last edited by gulliBell; 23rd Feb 2016 at 18:40.
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