Cumbria Helicopter crash discussion
Actually, fbw, it's not just SS & TC who have formed these opinions about MW's flying from the various youtube videos. I imagine that most professional helicopter pilots who have watched the videos are forming similar opinions.
Actually, fbw, it's not just SS & TC who have formed these opinions about MW's flying from the various youtube videos. I imagine that most professional helicopter pilots who have watched the videos are forming similar opinions.
I've seen enough after those live feeds to your vids SS.
Jazzy music, home vids, illegal aerobatic maonuevres, illegal aerial activities dropping pax, comparisons to astronauts, carpe diem.........and so it goes on.
This 'character' if I am to remain polite, obviously sees his life as one big action movie in which he played the lead role.
Dead man walking........................
I'm sure there are CRMI's out there who are already appropriating this material for their next presentation.
Thank goodness for SS and Gordy's input. I thought for a while that airmanship had gone gone out the window and the place was full of amateur aviators in denial
[Not forgetting the token mushroom].
If only 1 pilot has learned from this charade. Job done.
Please desist from responding guys - move on, Mark has.
Jazzy music, home vids, illegal aerobatic maonuevres, illegal aerial activities dropping pax, comparisons to astronauts, carpe diem.........and so it goes on.
This 'character' if I am to remain polite, obviously sees his life as one big action movie in which he played the lead role.
Dead man walking........................
I'm sure there are CRMI's out there who are already appropriating this material for their next presentation.
Thank goodness for SS and Gordy's input. I thought for a while that airmanship had gone gone out the window and the place was full of amateur aviators in denial
[Not forgetting the token mushroom].If only 1 pilot has learned from this charade. Job done.
Please desist from responding guys - move on, Mark has.
Chief Bottle Washer
Silsoe...the only person's making an ass on this forum are yourself and Mr T coupling....both of you with constant attempts at trying to put Mark down....your constant posting's of utube clips of what IN YOUR EYES are dangerous manouver's and practice's......Of course I guess you have never made a mistake in all your life as being Ex mil you guys dont do that of course!!!.... I really am now getting fed up with your constant drivel as it real has no bearing on any debate towards air safety.
Much as we understand your affinity to Mark, your attempts to prevent debate on this accident (on both threads) does your standing very little good. SS, TC, Coconutty, Gordy and many others here are respected and professional pilots giving their time and their experience to the benefit of others. There are some salutary lessons to be learnt and to deny them is doing nothing to advance flight safety.
As already said by others, if this discussion can help to prevent even one accident, it is worthwhile. As a professional pilot I agree with the opinions made as a result of watching the videos and reading of Mark's personality and temperament: refusing to discuss them will not help anyone.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Sorry fishbang, I was only bringing to the attention to others some examples of, from my point of view, how not to conduct yourself, especially in the public eye.
If you are after a bite, here goes; it won't be nice
I defy anyone not to watch the videos of Mark flying and not say, "There's an accident waiting to happen". Anyone from the aviation world that saw him fly like this should have had a word, no matter how good a bloke he was. That's one of the main problems in the aviation world, we tend not to speak up even when we know something is wrong. CRM covers that aspect and I have a prime example that I bring up on various courses, involving a very experienced Austrian Air Force Colonel, an experience Danish Fennec pilot and an experienced UK Lynx pilot, none of whom said anything when it started to go wrong! I know, I was there!
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP403.PDF
The 'tribute video' was taken at a public event and I would bet my bottom dollar that there was no display authorisation from the CAA and he was flying with the purpose of exhibition/entertainment. Watch the video again and notice that at 1:10 he isn't quite sure what manouevre he's going to do next.
It seems to me that Mark had a total disregard for flight safety, you know, that thing that I and many others try to instil in others. The take off or the rear door open on the 'tribute video' shows that!
If I hear the phrase 'We've all done it ourselves' again I will scream.
Yes we have, but only once. I have, only once gambled with the Chipmunk fuel consumption on a navex, only once 'gone for it' on a solo nav around Salisbury plan, only once flown the General that extra 5 mins to get another photo that left me flying over primary jungle with my arse chewing the Gazelle seat trying to reach fuel. Only once having met the General from his flight, entered Polish airspace from Berlin with General, ADC and P2 on board with worsening weather, being told we were under IFR and had to climb to 5,000' with the met from the exercise CP at the other end reported as clearing! Afterwards the General said he was ok with the flight, but wouldn't have objected to a night in Berlin!
Yes I have also been caught out with the weather, but landed early in a field near Shepshed, no need to push an extra mile or 2 to E.Mids airport. Then there was the airframe icing in Norway with the homing antennae waving like a fast wavey thing. But thats caught out!
Because of all these learning moments, I have been confident enough to stand up to authority and for example stopped the flight of 4 Gazelles pressing on from Yorkshire to Cornwall in bad November weather, even if it meant the boss was going to have to continue in a Lynx and be late for briefing by the bigwigs. The next day in the mess, many said that was the right descision, it wasn't a nice trip. Pity nobody stood with me at the time. (before CRM courses)
Because of these learning moments, I refused a Comp A task from Cornwall to Hereford because of bad weather in the early hours. I was told by 'authority' the met was ok, I checked with the mobile met unit, it was ****e. I was told it would be ok to leave under radar control and do a LWNA letdown over the severn East of Cardiff and then snurgle onwards. Straight away I went to the pax who had already been loaded onto the aircraft and told him that he was going to have to go by road and explained, that way 'authority wasn't going to come up with any other idiotic ideas to other pilots. The pax fully understood and thanked me anyway!
Then there's the standing up to authority when told it would be ok to fly a cab with a slight fuel leak, into the mission pod down, to the maintenance base. It is one thing to be told by senior engineering managers that it would be ok and for your company chiefs to say it's ok and then still refuse to go even if there was a shortage of duty engineers and a quick job. It was only when an observer put his foot down and took the ac offline that calmed the night down!
In the cool light of day, funnily enough, everyone understood why I refused. When you are asked, 'are you refusing to fly the aircraft to 'maint base'', you do tend to worry about your job, but if it did go wrong, who would have stood up and said, 'Yes I said it was going to be ok'...no-one!
It's simple things that save lives, watch the take off on the 'tribute video' or any of the vids. It used to be Tq Nc T4 CWP, but judging by the videos, Mark never carried out after take off checks. I am reminded of the time we took off and the P2 said 'Tq Nc T4 CWP', to which I replied, so you haven't noticed the Tq meter failure then!
I wonder what other checks weren't done, that may have been noticed and may even have prevented this incident! I am reminded of one of the guys on my APC walking out of the crewroom for a trip and coming back in 5 mins later. On the walk round he found a pitch change rod not connected!
Yes we all make mistakes and most of us learn from them, some of us pass on our mistakes and a few of us go out of our way to ensure others find out about not only our mistakes, but also those of others.
As much of a good guy Mark was, he was a Flight Safety nightmare and a danger to himself and others, let down by those around him who didn't have the courage to tell him to be a bit more careful, not from a legal point of view, but more importantly from a life saving point of view.
Sorry if that was a bit hard to hear fishbang, but you have missed the point of this thread which has been separated from the tributes and condolences thread for a very good reason and if you want to take me to court for what I have just said, I will happily appear.
The main thing is, and it's the cliche of cliches I know, but if my bite has saved one more life, wether it's PPL, CPL, ATPL, Mil, Civ, H or A then that's a good thing....isn't it?
If you are after a bite, here goes; it won't be nice
I defy anyone not to watch the videos of Mark flying and not say, "There's an accident waiting to happen". Anyone from the aviation world that saw him fly like this should have had a word, no matter how good a bloke he was. That's one of the main problems in the aviation world, we tend not to speak up even when we know something is wrong. CRM covers that aspect and I have a prime example that I bring up on various courses, involving a very experienced Austrian Air Force Colonel, an experience Danish Fennec pilot and an experienced UK Lynx pilot, none of whom said anything when it started to go wrong! I know, I was there!
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP403.PDF
Flying Display - Any flying activity deliberately performed for the purpose of providing an exhibition or entertainment at an advertised event open to the public. (Article 255 of the ANO)
It seems to me that Mark had a total disregard for flight safety, you know, that thing that I and many others try to instil in others. The take off or the rear door open on the 'tribute video' shows that!
If I hear the phrase 'We've all done it ourselves' again I will scream.
Yes we have, but only once. I have, only once gambled with the Chipmunk fuel consumption on a navex, only once 'gone for it' on a solo nav around Salisbury plan, only once flown the General that extra 5 mins to get another photo that left me flying over primary jungle with my arse chewing the Gazelle seat trying to reach fuel. Only once having met the General from his flight, entered Polish airspace from Berlin with General, ADC and P2 on board with worsening weather, being told we were under IFR and had to climb to 5,000' with the met from the exercise CP at the other end reported as clearing! Afterwards the General said he was ok with the flight, but wouldn't have objected to a night in Berlin!
Yes I have also been caught out with the weather, but landed early in a field near Shepshed, no need to push an extra mile or 2 to E.Mids airport. Then there was the airframe icing in Norway with the homing antennae waving like a fast wavey thing. But thats caught out!
Because of all these learning moments, I have been confident enough to stand up to authority and for example stopped the flight of 4 Gazelles pressing on from Yorkshire to Cornwall in bad November weather, even if it meant the boss was going to have to continue in a Lynx and be late for briefing by the bigwigs. The next day in the mess, many said that was the right descision, it wasn't a nice trip. Pity nobody stood with me at the time. (before CRM courses)
Because of these learning moments, I refused a Comp A task from Cornwall to Hereford because of bad weather in the early hours. I was told by 'authority' the met was ok, I checked with the mobile met unit, it was ****e. I was told it would be ok to leave under radar control and do a LWNA letdown over the severn East of Cardiff and then snurgle onwards. Straight away I went to the pax who had already been loaded onto the aircraft and told him that he was going to have to go by road and explained, that way 'authority wasn't going to come up with any other idiotic ideas to other pilots. The pax fully understood and thanked me anyway!
Then there's the standing up to authority when told it would be ok to fly a cab with a slight fuel leak, into the mission pod down, to the maintenance base. It is one thing to be told by senior engineering managers that it would be ok and for your company chiefs to say it's ok and then still refuse to go even if there was a shortage of duty engineers and a quick job. It was only when an observer put his foot down and took the ac offline that calmed the night down!
In the cool light of day, funnily enough, everyone understood why I refused. When you are asked, 'are you refusing to fly the aircraft to 'maint base'', you do tend to worry about your job, but if it did go wrong, who would have stood up and said, 'Yes I said it was going to be ok'...no-one!
It's simple things that save lives, watch the take off on the 'tribute video' or any of the vids. It used to be Tq Nc T4 CWP, but judging by the videos, Mark never carried out after take off checks. I am reminded of the time we took off and the P2 said 'Tq Nc T4 CWP', to which I replied, so you haven't noticed the Tq meter failure then!
I wonder what other checks weren't done, that may have been noticed and may even have prevented this incident! I am reminded of one of the guys on my APC walking out of the crewroom for a trip and coming back in 5 mins later. On the walk round he found a pitch change rod not connected!
Yes we all make mistakes and most of us learn from them, some of us pass on our mistakes and a few of us go out of our way to ensure others find out about not only our mistakes, but also those of others.
As much of a good guy Mark was, he was a Flight Safety nightmare and a danger to himself and others, let down by those around him who didn't have the courage to tell him to be a bit more careful, not from a legal point of view, but more importantly from a life saving point of view.
Sorry if that was a bit hard to hear fishbang, but you have missed the point of this thread which has been separated from the tributes and condolences thread for a very good reason and if you want to take me to court for what I have just said, I will happily appear.
The main thing is, and it's the cliche of cliches I know, but if my bite has saved one more life, wether it's PPL, CPL, ATPL, Mil, Civ, H or A then that's a good thing....isn't it?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
A pleasing thing to see on this thread, is that many of the names here sometimes don't always see eye to eye on a lot of matters, but his thread however, seems to have brought us all together in a common cause.
It's a real shame that Mark had to die to enable such a huge discussion about Flight Safety and I'm sure all our thoughts are with his family and friends.
RiP
It's a real shame that Mark had to die to enable such a huge discussion about Flight Safety and I'm sure all our thoughts are with his family and friends.
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . .
Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
John Gillespie Magee, Jr
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . .
Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
John Gillespie Magee, Jr
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The main thing is, and it's the cliche of cliches I know, but if my bite has saved one more life, wether it's PPL, CPL, ATPL, Mil, Civ, H or A then that's a good thing....isn't it?
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Back To The Thread
Guys this thread is supposed to be about what might have happened in Marks accident, lets try and get back to it, I'm sorry now that I mentioned my night flight, but just to clarify a few details
- I live in South Wales, we are surrounded by mountains over 2000ft, its always windy here, its not very often that the wind is under 15knts. I'm not suggesting that I know it all, but ive been flying in,around and over these mountains now for nearly 20 years, and I always expect the unexpected !!
- I'm not being a smart ass but before I go anywhere I check the Notams + the weather especially the 214 spot winds which I find most accurate.
- On the night in question I flew down from Huddersfield to Aberporth then back into South Wales the wind was forecast to be 20knts, unfortuanatly it increased in an isolated area to plus 40knts
- As for the weather forecast once past Cardiff there are no other Airfields available for a forecast, Pembrey is automated, most of the others Swansea + Haverfordwest are closed by 5pm
- In the night I like to always be at least 1000/1500ft above the highest object whether it be a City or Mountain, that normally means, that I'm at least 3000ft +, and fly Quadrangle Rules
As I stated earlier, normally I would have pressed on, and would have been quite pleased with myself when I got home, but on this occasion, I'd had enough and was very pleased with my decision to land, even rang my ex wife to pick me up !!!!!!
Now back to the thread, a pall of mine came up with an interseting comment this morning, he said that although the Gazelle is quick machine it seemed like a short distance from the take off point to end in such a high speed impact, he suggested that maybe the Helicopter took off down the Valley, didn't like what the weather was like and perhaps he was returning to his landing site.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
In the night I like to always be at least 1000/1500ft above the highest object whether it be a City or Mountain, that normally means, that I'm at least 3000ft +, and fly Quadrangle Rules
As I stated earlier, normally I would have pressed on, and would have been quite pleased with myself when I got home,
I won't give up
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Firstly - I'm in tune with TC, SS, Gordy etc.
In addition to my previous posts, however, md 600 raised another issue -
Licence, ability or background make little difference, it's all to do with the style of flying , whether it's legal and/or sensible & whether he had any real idea of the risks.
As has been mentioned, you will find professional PPLs and less-than-professional AT/CPLs, just as you do in any profession - lawers / builders / doctors, etc. Sadly, in this case there's a multitude of evidence that would indicate that the style of flying was frequently somewhat less than responsible, safe and/or legal.
What some people have unfortunately regarded in a positive light . . .
was known in the military, especially when un-authorised, as "wazzing" and could result in disciplinary action if discovered. Authorised low-level training had strict controls (& I imagine still does) - weather/briefing/pre descent checks/height limitations/understanding consequences of emergencies at low level etc. - a risk-managed exercise that enabled pilots to discover both piloting & aircraft limits, ready for the day in battle when they might need both - as I did. Sadly, as so often in gung-ho young pilots, it was normally when more two or more limits (piloting, weather, aircraft or legal) were exceded at the same time that things had a habit of going wrong, often with fatal consequences.
Whilst the military appreciated the benefits, but made every effort to minimise the risks, inherrent in low flying, it was a necessary part of the job & appropriate training was therefore in place. However, it's not a regime that's encouraged, or generally allowed, in General Aviation, unless you're inspecting pipelines, railways, pylons etc, as there's little need to spend time close to the ground, unless landing or taking off. Height just gives you a bit more time to sort things out, as a general rule. Those who do work in the low level environment tend to be older, experienced, pilots who have a bit more to loose than the same "invincible" individual in his twenties - I know, I was there, I did it, BUT, like SS & others, I learnt, sometimes by scaring myself, that it wasn't the key to a long life!
Low level flying is exciting for the simple reason that it's dangerous - it follows Dr Johnson's (1709-1784) mantra that "the prospect of hanging sharpens the mind wonderfully" - for "hanging", read "death", in the low flying environment.
Whilst some have slated Tailboom's actions in South Wales, I'd have to agree that it's better to admit a slight error of judgement, whatever the consequences from this community, than be asking God why he couldn't log on to pprune, just one last time, to explain!!
In addition to my previous posts, however, md 600 raised another issue -
but where in this topic has any one said what licence he held
he could have a DA, he could have a instrument and cpl maybe even a atpl or just a night rating , one thing for sure l he was not a pilot with HM gov thats obvious otherwise he couldnt do any wrong in your eyes
he could have a DA, he could have a instrument and cpl maybe even a atpl or just a night rating , one thing for sure l he was not a pilot with HM gov thats obvious otherwise he couldnt do any wrong in your eyes
As has been mentioned, you will find professional PPLs and less-than-professional AT/CPLs, just as you do in any profession - lawers / builders / doctors, etc. Sadly, in this case there's a multitude of evidence that would indicate that the style of flying was frequently somewhat less than responsible, safe and/or legal.
What some people have unfortunately regarded in a positive light . . .
he was very generous.....even treating pax to a spot of low level
Whilst the military appreciated the benefits, but made every effort to minimise the risks, inherrent in low flying, it was a necessary part of the job & appropriate training was therefore in place. However, it's not a regime that's encouraged, or generally allowed, in General Aviation, unless you're inspecting pipelines, railways, pylons etc, as there's little need to spend time close to the ground, unless landing or taking off. Height just gives you a bit more time to sort things out, as a general rule. Those who do work in the low level environment tend to be older, experienced, pilots who have a bit more to loose than the same "invincible" individual in his twenties - I know, I was there, I did it, BUT, like SS & others, I learnt, sometimes by scaring myself, that it wasn't the key to a long life!
Low level flying is exciting for the simple reason that it's dangerous - it follows Dr Johnson's (1709-1784) mantra that "the prospect of hanging sharpens the mind wonderfully" - for "hanging", read "death", in the low flying environment.
Whilst some have slated Tailboom's actions in South Wales, I'd have to agree that it's better to admit a slight error of judgement, whatever the consequences from this community, than be asking God why he couldn't log on to pprune, just one last time, to explain!!
Last edited by zorab64; 23rd Mar 2011 at 14:45. Reason: request to add MD600's quote & resulting adjustment of subsequent para
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Nice one Zobra,
I think you explain nicely perhaps why some get a bit upset when an ex-mil pilot raises his head and makes comment. I think it's the attitude of risk awareness that is hammered into them throughout their career that highlights some risks that are not necessarily apparent to others.
It's not a 'better than' attitude, its more of a 'what if' attitude.
I especially like you highlighting, 'Sadly, as so often in gung-ho young pilots, it was normally when more two or more limits (piloting, weather, aircraft or legal) were exceded at the same time that things had a habit of going wrong, often with fatal consequences'.
Can I just add that it's not necessarily just the young.
Can you 'quote' MDs comment for those that missed it.
I think you explain nicely perhaps why some get a bit upset when an ex-mil pilot raises his head and makes comment. I think it's the attitude of risk awareness that is hammered into them throughout their career that highlights some risks that are not necessarily apparent to others.
It's not a 'better than' attitude, its more of a 'what if' attitude.
I especially like you highlighting, 'Sadly, as so often in gung-ho young pilots, it was normally when more two or more limits (piloting, weather, aircraft or legal) were exceded at the same time that things had a habit of going wrong, often with fatal consequences'.
Can I just add that it's not necessarily just the young.
Can you 'quote' MDs comment for those that missed it.
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 23rd Mar 2011 at 08:09. Reason: missed the 'like' in middle paragraph
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SS, excellent post, I hope a few people on here read and re-read that post a few times.
Im not a heli pilot, but to me, those videos make my skin crawl. To me he is a risk taker, and conducting a regular operation in mountanous terrain, esp at night with him at the helm was always going to end this way. Just a matter of when, not if.
Theres a few on here who are letting their emotions get in the way of flight safety, but as the saying goes, the truth always hurts!
FBW, you are respected on these forums by a lot of people, please dont spoil that reputation.
Safe flying!
Edit: thankfully no one else was onboard at the time!
Im not a heli pilot, but to me, those videos make my skin crawl. To me he is a risk taker, and conducting a regular operation in mountanous terrain, esp at night with him at the helm was always going to end this way. Just a matter of when, not if.
Theres a few on here who are letting their emotions get in the way of flight safety, but as the saying goes, the truth always hurts!
FBW, you are respected on these forums by a lot of people, please dont spoil that reputation.
Safe flying!
Edit: thankfully no one else was onboard at the time!
Last edited by Cactus99; 23rd Mar 2011 at 08:16.
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OK guys maybe time for me to call a halt...
Cactus thanks for your kind words.
I guess my judgement has been clouded somewhat by be-friending Mark as one of my top customers, not only that but the fact he was a bludy good bloke and one in a million.Not only that despite what others felt he had more experiance at mountain flying gained over the past 10 years than many will achieve in a life-time.
My main concern when I came to this post was that folk seemed to be jumping to conclusion's....yes the weather was **** and I must admit when I first was told of the accident that was the first thing that came into my mind. Rather than jump to conclusions though I would rather wait to see the full facts.
Its always the same on PPRUNE when an accident happens.....the experts and do gooders crawl out from the undergrowth and spout off their feelings....in some cases they talk sense in others....well as I said earlier just follow the post's after the BAW 777 landed short at EGLL.
The problem I have with all of this is that most folk on PPRUNE remain annonymous....the likes of TC and SS, what they say is probabally all good stuff after years spent in aviation, that said though for all I know they may indeed be bus conducters or train drivers!!
Anyway what ever...through my job I have met some great folk, to be honest you rotary boys and girls are some of the best,its because of that that I do indeed get attatched and it hurts badly when things go wrong and some are lost....so from now on I will leave you all in peace....I am sorry if I have ruffled some feathers but I guess you all old and ugly enough to cope with that....one thing for sure I dont suffer fools glady so I guess in a way a little like Mark I am always keen to let the world know my feelings!!
OK so then that's about it....I now have a Moody 38 to get launched
so its off to the sea for me.....that air is far too bludy dangerous!!
Good luck to you all and safe flying.
Cactus thanks for your kind words.I guess my judgement has been clouded somewhat by be-friending Mark as one of my top customers, not only that but the fact he was a bludy good bloke and one in a million.
Not only that despite what others felt he had more experiance at mountain flying gained over the past 10 years than many will achieve in a life-time.My main concern when I came to this post was that folk seemed to be jumping to conclusion's....yes the weather was **** and I must admit when I first was told of the accident that was the first thing that came into my mind. Rather than jump to conclusions though I would rather wait to see the full facts.
Its always the same on PPRUNE when an accident happens.....the experts and do gooders crawl out from the undergrowth and spout off their feelings....in some cases they talk sense in others....well as I said earlier just follow the post's after the BAW 777 landed short at EGLL.
The problem I have with all of this is that most folk on PPRUNE remain annonymous....the likes of TC and SS, what they say is probabally all good stuff after years spent in aviation, that said though for all I know they may indeed be bus conducters or train drivers!!
Anyway what ever...through my job I have met some great folk, to be honest you rotary boys and girls are some of the best,
its because of that that I do indeed get attatched and it hurts badly when things go wrong and some are lost....so from now on I will leave you all in peace....I am sorry if I have ruffled some feathers but I guess you all old and ugly enough to cope with that....one thing for sure I dont suffer fools glady so I guess in a way a little like Mark I am always keen to let the world know my feelings!!OK so then that's about it....I now have a Moody 38 to get launched
so its off to the sea for me.....that air is far too bludy dangerous!!Good luck to you all and safe flying.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Before you bang out fishbang,
There is a huge difference between being experienced in mountain flying and flying a-b in mountainous terrain 6 days a week for 10 years. Would Mark for example be able to brief a Squadron of helicopter pilots before they go mountain flying training in Saillagouse on the different techniques and 'gotchas'. ?
I would be interested to know on which of the many mountain flying courses available in the UK he attended or instructed/passed his knowledge on, or was this experience learnt on the job !
I don't think you'll find it hard to discover who SS is.
He isn't one to hide behind a username, google silsoesid for example, oh dear don't go looking at that helitorque profile, you may be dissapointed that I'm not driving the No5 into town
The way he likes to look at it is that if people know who he is, his posts have a certain substance to them
Please don't stop reading this thread fishbang, we appreciate your input, but in the kindest way I don't think you are looking at it from an aviators point of view. Hopefully we can all learn from this and I know personally how hard it is to see the picture when you lose a family friend. G-BLUN
With changes nationally, one day soon I may well find myself a bit further North than usual and be calling for your help.
Until then, all the best and happy sailing
SS
Not only that despite what others felt he had more experiance at mountain flying gained over the past 10 years than many will achieve in a life-time.
I would be interested to know on which of the many mountain flying courses available in the UK he attended or instructed/passed his knowledge on, or was this experience learnt on the job !
The problem I have with all of this is that most folk on PPRUNE remain annonymous....the likes of TC and SS, what they say is probabally all good stuff after years spent in aviation, that said though for all I know they may indeed be bus conducters or train drivers!!
He isn't one to hide behind a username, google silsoesid for example, oh dear don't go looking at that helitorque profile, you may be dissapointed that I'm not driving the No5 into town
The way he likes to look at it is that if people know who he is, his posts have a certain substance to them
Please don't stop reading this thread fishbang, we appreciate your input, but in the kindest way I don't think you are looking at it from an aviators point of view. Hopefully we can all learn from this and I know personally how hard it is to see the picture when you lose a family friend. G-BLUN
With changes nationally, one day soon I may well find myself a bit further North than usual and be calling for your help.
Until then, all the best and happy sailing
SS
30yrs aviation
17yrs in FAA of which 3 in N America teaching mountain flying. Waterbird.
3 tours Sharks display team. QHI. CFS agent.
13yrs Police/HEMS. CP N Wales Police, flying the most varied and demanding areas anywhere in the UK. CRMI.
Type rated on 11 a/c.
Now running a training service for some of the best rotary pilots in the world.
If anyone wants to to organise an aviation workshop / pi**up evening in a local pub in the NW, count me in, I can even arrange a visit to the sharp end
I accept your apology fishbangwheeze.
17yrs in FAA of which 3 in N America teaching mountain flying. Waterbird.
3 tours Sharks display team. QHI. CFS agent.
13yrs Police/HEMS. CP N Wales Police, flying the most varied and demanding areas anywhere in the UK. CRMI.
Type rated on 11 a/c.
Now running a training service for some of the best rotary pilots in the world.
If anyone wants to to organise an aviation workshop / pi**up evening in a local pub in the NW, count me in, I can even arrange a visit to the sharp end
I accept your apology fishbangwheeze.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Sir Nialll Dementia;
9 500 rotary hours
3 300 fixed wing
ATPL/H/IR (incl 620 Gazelle)
ATPL/A/IR
Currently senior pilot in a corporate operation.
I met Mark a couple of times, I never flew with him, but was concerned at some of the manouvres I watched.
3 years ago an old friend who had worked (not as a pilot) in civvy helicopter aviation rang me and told me that she had just been introduced to Mark and that he was carrying out pleasure flying (in his Gazelle) at an event she was attending (a corporate jolly)
She questioned whether it was legal in a machine of that registration, and what his license was (apparently a CPL). She watched the first trip and refused an opportunity to fly on one of the later trips that day. (there were ten more flights, all as "exciting" as the first)
She contacted CAA enforcements and was told that the aircraft and pilot were familiar to them from other reports.
Mark struck me as a risk taker, you don't get involved with what he did at Honister without that trait, sadly many such people believe that success in one area of your life will lead to success in all areas (and in this job I've met a few of them) The unseen menace of severe windshear/downdraughting can happen in the Honister area, I met it myself in an S76 a couple of years ago, coming past the mine with full power on we were going down whether we wanted to or not. At night, possibly in iffy weather it could have been a serious handful.
FBW. Your grief is understandable. Most of us on this forum who make a living flying helicopters have a list of friends who have ended their careers in some pretty spectacular ways (I've got a course photo with an awful lot of faces Tip-exed out), from an early stage we get used to sitting in the crewroom/pub/ at a keyboard questioning how the hell they did it, it may seem callous, but that questioning may help us to learn and stay alive. As a well known contributor to PPrune your views will always be respected because in your job you are one of the pros we rely on, don't be hard on us when we start trying to work out what went wrong.
SND
9 500 rotary hours
3 300 fixed wing
ATPL/H/IR (incl 620 Gazelle)
ATPL/A/IR
Currently senior pilot in a corporate operation.
I met Mark a couple of times, I never flew with him, but was concerned at some of the manouvres I watched.
3 years ago an old friend who had worked (not as a pilot) in civvy helicopter aviation rang me and told me that she had just been introduced to Mark and that he was carrying out pleasure flying (in his Gazelle) at an event she was attending (a corporate jolly)
She questioned whether it was legal in a machine of that registration, and what his license was (apparently a CPL). She watched the first trip and refused an opportunity to fly on one of the later trips that day. (there were ten more flights, all as "exciting" as the first)
She contacted CAA enforcements and was told that the aircraft and pilot were familiar to them from other reports.
Mark struck me as a risk taker, you don't get involved with what he did at Honister without that trait, sadly many such people believe that success in one area of your life will lead to success in all areas (and in this job I've met a few of them) The unseen menace of severe windshear/downdraughting can happen in the Honister area, I met it myself in an S76 a couple of years ago, coming past the mine with full power on we were going down whether we wanted to or not. At night, possibly in iffy weather it could have been a serious handful.
FBW. Your grief is understandable. Most of us on this forum who make a living flying helicopters have a list of friends who have ended their careers in some pretty spectacular ways (I've got a course photo with an awful lot of faces Tip-exed out), from an early stage we get used to sitting in the crewroom/pub/ at a keyboard questioning how the hell they did it, it may seem callous, but that questioning may help us to learn and stay alive. As a well known contributor to PPrune your views will always be respected because in your job you are one of the pros we rely on, don't be hard on us when we start trying to work out what went wrong.
SND