Cumbria Helicopter crash discussion
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30+ years & 5,000+ rotary hours, (to maintain some level of anonimity, a subject I've touched on before) but I trust my posts are balanced enough to speak for themselves.
FBW - Concur with others that your contributions have been valuable. They've helped to stir discussion and encourage others to raise issues that may not otherwise have emerged - enjoy the sailing but don't pull the plug on pprune.
Fly/Sail (& walk sideways!) carefully
FBW - Concur with others that your contributions have been valuable. They've helped to stir discussion and encourage others to raise issues that may not otherwise have emerged - enjoy the sailing but don't pull the plug on pprune.
Fly/Sail (& walk sideways!) carefully
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Speaking for my son (CPL(H), 250 hours including about 40 on B206, looking for work - well you have to start somewhere) we find discussions such as this on Pprune hugely valuable as a way of learning how to be a better, safer pilot. Thanks to all of you.
There is wazzing around and there is dangerous flying possibly above the ability of the pilot or the aircraft . Low flying , torque turns etc could be called wazzing around and would get scorn from loads of pilots on here ...but when planned , just like crop spraying , can be perfectly safe but look exciting . I have done my fair share of that , like many people , but at least i was trained to do it . I must admit i had not seen many of the videos and thought this was a typical pprune bash against someone having some fun .
Some of you here just have a v poor bedside manner ( typically Mil i know !!) and immediately get peoples backs up re cpl,s , millions of hrs etc just look at the fuss over the R66 take off .....it may have been showy offy but it was not dangerous in my view .....we have to accept that some people obey rules and others push them . I have employed and flown with many mil pilots , some with more hrs incl combat than most of you ....they still wazzed around when the time was right . Having said that i have to admit , having seen the videos etc i would not have flown in the back seat and i was misguided being defensive .
Some of you here just have a v poor bedside manner ( typically Mil i know !!) and immediately get peoples backs up re cpl,s , millions of hrs etc just look at the fuss over the R66 take off .....it may have been showy offy but it was not dangerous in my view .....we have to accept that some people obey rules and others push them . I have employed and flown with many mil pilots , some with more hrs incl combat than most of you ....they still wazzed around when the time was right . Having said that i have to admit , having seen the videos etc i would not have flown in the back seat and i was misguided being defensive .
Cracking thread chaps - it is sad that someone has to die in order that such wisdom, as espoused by SS, TC et al, is listened to - I hope that any PPL/CPL/ATPL perusing this thread will read and inwardly digest so that they don't have to learn the same lessons the hard way.
I place myself with some of the older and bolder here - 30 years mil flying, 8000 hrs, 3000 hrs instructional and side wholeheartedly with their analysis of Mark's (slightly flawed) personality as applicable to aviation matters.
RIP Mark, sadly you are not the first nor, even more sadly, will you be the last.
I place myself with some of the older and bolder here - 30 years mil flying, 8000 hrs, 3000 hrs instructional and side wholeheartedly with their analysis of Mark's (slightly flawed) personality as applicable to aviation matters.
RIP Mark, sadly you are not the first nor, even more sadly, will you be the last.
Thank you ALL for your contributions
I for one am extremely greatfull for everybody who contributes to Rotorheads, whether experienced of not. We as helicopter pilots have very little interaction between each other, being away on jobs mostly, regarding safety and flying (besides the yearly CRM when we all get together) and I for one find PPruNe the perfect place for this. The amount of informative and helpfull information that gets given freely here is increadible and I applaud those giving it. I learnt early in my career from a great man, who died in a helicopter crash low level - due to mechanical failure, that there is one thing that is free in life....INFORMATION, so pass it on as you are helping someone whether you know it or not.
As I have mentioned before, the amount of thinking that this thread has given me, is increadibly.
Keep it coming people.... You're saving lives.... Don't think of it as "if only one person thinks twice...." There are a lots of US thinking twice, and benifiting from discussions like this.
PPruNe Rotorheads is a site that I check in with everyday, like the met/notam etc, as you never know when you might miss something of importance that you might benefit from on todays flight...
Now 10 yrs in aviation with 3000 hrs, 80% spent in the curve!!! with hands securely on the controls thinking "what if" and trying to keep it as safe as possible...
Thank you again everybody...
As I have mentioned before, the amount of thinking that this thread has given me, is increadibly.
Keep it coming people.... You're saving lives.... Don't think of it as "if only one person thinks twice...." There are a lots of US thinking twice, and benifiting from discussions like this.
PPruNe Rotorheads is a site that I check in with everyday, like the met/notam etc, as you never know when you might miss something of importance that you might benefit from on todays flight...
Now 10 yrs in aviation with 3000 hrs, 80% spent in the curve!!! with hands securely on the controls thinking "what if" and trying to keep it as safe as possible...
Thank you again everybody...
What a refreshing start to the day after reading that Flyting. Even with all your hours you still feel humbled by whats going on in the aviation world.
None of us stops learning - ever. We should all hope to benefit from other peoples good and bad experiences.
Hope to see you contributing more often in future?
Even with all your hours you still feel humbled by whats going on in the aviation world.None of us stops learning - ever. We should all hope to benefit from other peoples good and bad experiences.
Hope to see you contributing more often in future?
SND
She watched the first trip and refused an opportunity to fly on one of the later trips that day. (there were ten more flights, all as "exciting" as the first)
She watched the first trip and refused an opportunity to fly on one of the later trips that day. (there were ten more flights, all as "exciting" as the first)
These sorts of threads are invaluable, even for non-aircrew like myself. Theres plenty of info to be shared both on and off forum as I have done with people here in rotorheads and other parts of the site. Every days a learning day.
js, 28 years of assorted aviation experience.
Flyting
Isn't this the whole point of PPRuNe - to learn? It certainly is for me.
There are all sorts on this forum: PPLs, CPLs, ATPLs, owners/operators, engineers, ATCs, CAA staff, journalists, insurers, instructors, students, handlers and so on. Some have lots of hours, some have none. Some ferry VIPs around, some spray crops, some go to war. Some sit in armchairs waiting to flick peanuts at the first opportunity. Not one of us will ever know it all, but if you're interested in learning then IMO there isn't a better place to do it.
If someone posts an opinion in good faith, then they shouldn't be flamed for it - that will just stifle debate. If someone posts an experience that they know was wrong, they should be thanked for sharing that experience so others can learn from it, not lambasted and labelled an idiot! If an opinion can be changed for the better through someone else's experience, then use this forum to educate with a mature and measured response instead of the pompous and emotional rhetoric that so often ensues? We will all learn and become safer pilots.
We still don't know what went wrong for Mark although we have our suspicions; hopefully time will tell. I am also grateful to have learned a lot from this thread, so at least something +ve has come out of Mark's death.
I for one am extremely greatfull for everybody who contributes to Rotorheads, whether experienced of not.
There are all sorts on this forum: PPLs, CPLs, ATPLs, owners/operators, engineers, ATCs, CAA staff, journalists, insurers, instructors, students, handlers and so on. Some have lots of hours, some have none. Some ferry VIPs around, some spray crops, some go to war. Some sit in armchairs waiting to flick peanuts at the first opportunity. Not one of us will ever know it all, but if you're interested in learning then IMO there isn't a better place to do it.
If someone posts an opinion in good faith, then they shouldn't be flamed for it - that will just stifle debate. If someone posts an experience that they know was wrong, they should be thanked for sharing that experience so others can learn from it, not lambasted and labelled an idiot! If an opinion can be changed for the better through someone else's experience, then use this forum to educate with a mature and measured response instead of the pompous and emotional rhetoric that so often ensues? We will all learn and become safer pilots.
We still don't know what went wrong for Mark although we have our suspicions; hopefully time will tell. I am also grateful to have learned a lot from this thread, so at least something +ve has come out of Mark's death.
I tend to read aaib & faa reports, if people with a lot more hours experience than me get it wrong, it's not going to be a problem for me personally to screw up big time.
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Mark Weir obituary | Education | The Guardian
extract:
extract:
A careful and experienced pilot, he also had an adventurous streak that led to a £400 fine in January 2011 for an unauthorised stunt, dropping the champion paraglider Felix Rodriguez from 3,050m (10,000ft) to perform an "infinite tumble" at last year's Lakes Charity Classic airshow.
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Certainly looks like Mark lived life to the full and helped others along the way (30 employees at the mine amongst other ventures). I offer no opinion on the circumstances of his death, just sadness at another loss and I just count myself lucky to still be around when so many of my friends have gone the way of Mark for all manner of reasons.
I probably bite off as much as I can chew a couple of times a year, if I didn't my employer would soon get the idea I was turning down do-able jobs too often. I just wish I knew which 'couple of times' in advance.
Safe flying all.
I probably bite off as much as I can chew a couple of times a year, if I didn't my employer would soon get the idea I was turning down do-able jobs too often. I just wish I knew which 'couple of times' in advance.
Safe flying all.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
From the same article;
Eventually, you don't !
Interesting report ahead
Among many local tributes, the writer and broadcaster Eric Robson, who chairs Cumbria Tourism, spoke of the "tremendous joy" Weir brought through ideas that he "pushed through when everyone else was saying you can't do that or you'll never get away with it".
Interesting report ahead
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Missed it, but downloading for later.
Saw a minutes worth around the 45 minute mark (the sheep). His comments and attitude about risk....sums it all up really !
Saw a minutes worth around the 45 minute mark (the sheep). His comments and attitude about risk....sums it all up really !
Mark Weir documentary, 2100 this Sunday (23rd Oct) on BBC4 for those who may be interested
BBC iPlayer - Tales from the National Parks: The Lake District
The instant one knows it all....and cannot learn from others....it is time to hang up your headset!
I always took the approach to flying that I could learn from anyone of any skill level or experience background. I made it through a career of flying without an accident or chargeable incident...mostly due to lots of luck but also as a direct result of being willing to listen to anyone...and learn.
I don't believe I ever met Mark Weir....but he seems a very interesting fellow.
Aviation never progressed without someone being willing to try the new and different. After all....isn't flying supposed to good fun now and then?
Running afoul of the authorities having done so does not in itself connote being "wrong", "negligent", or in anyway "dangerous". Lord knows...one has to be a Philidelphia Lawyer to keep up on all the Regs, Rules, and Policies the Crats Agin Aviation seem to publish by the Ream. Even with the very best of intentions one can step on a crack in the sidewalk.
Without having full knowledge of the circumstances (causes) of an event....I find it objectionable for anyone to criticize an individual particularly when they are unable to defend themselves.
Add me to the list with Gordy and the rest of the Gang.
I always took the approach to flying that I could learn from anyone of any skill level or experience background. I made it through a career of flying without an accident or chargeable incident...mostly due to lots of luck but also as a direct result of being willing to listen to anyone...and learn.
I don't believe I ever met Mark Weir....but he seems a very interesting fellow.
Aviation never progressed without someone being willing to try the new and different. After all....isn't flying supposed to good fun now and then?
Running afoul of the authorities having done so does not in itself connote being "wrong", "negligent", or in anyway "dangerous". Lord knows...one has to be a Philidelphia Lawyer to keep up on all the Regs, Rules, and Policies the Crats Agin Aviation seem to publish by the Ream. Even with the very best of intentions one can step on a crack in the sidewalk.
Without having full knowledge of the circumstances (causes) of an event....I find it objectionable for anyone to criticize an individual particularly when they are unable to defend themselves.
Add me to the list with Gordy and the rest of the Gang.