UK Police helicopter budget cuts
In Parliament
Just to point out that 'things' can be 'done' in relation to the loss and movement of aircraft is a story in today's paper in Bristol... things that are not on Pprune even....
An MP has criticised plans to move a police helicopter that covers the Bristol area from Filton to Wiltshire.
Filton and Bradley Stoke MP Jack Lopresti said taking the helicopter to RAF Colerne could lead to a rise in crime in Bristol. The Tory MP said: "The helicopter is based less than three minutes' flying time from Bristol so it can react to any serious crime in the city." He has now laid down a Parliamentary question on the issue.
OK so its only a pin prick but just a few million more might make a change. I believe that this particular move is the result of pressure from pprune sources.
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Actually, the 2008/9 cost to the UK economy of an "Un-natural" death was 1.2M, - (Home Office/NHS figures). I believe, but cannot confirm that the 2009/10 figure is closer to 1.4M.
The source of your numbers is the Home Office/NHS. Doesn't that tell you something? Who needs to show that billions of taxpayers funds are being fantastically well spent on emergency response, helicopters, A&E, the whole 9 yards?
Reflect for 10 seconds on the true actual costs incurred with an accidental death. Emergency services involvement is usually fairly short-lived. There may be some hospitalisation costs, care and hotel charges, but by definition these are also short-lived. The state may bear some funeral costs, but usually not. An investigation may well consume a lot of manhours, probably to no great benefit. Are we up to £100K yet, in terms of manpower resources and equipment use? I doubt it.
So where does the £1,400,000 "cost" per accidental death come from?
From all sorts of imaginary and unquantifiable "economic costs", that's where. Any civil servant worth his inex-linked final salary pension can go on finding those until he has reached the figure he was told to reach.
I've done it myself in cost-benefit analyses designed for clients with schemes to promote, such as new airports. It's the assumptions that count, but they are buried out of sight. Such as "let us assume that a businessman's time is worth $257.48 per hour. Or, if necessary to massage the numbers a bit, $416.28 per hour". And so on.
Do you know something? I can produce, using precisely the same techniques with precisely the same basis in fact, figures which would show that the cost of the accident victim not dying are far higher than the costs of his/her death. So if you simply let him/her die, you not only save the cost of the emergency response, you save the huge costs that saving his/her life would incur, over his/her remaining lifespan.
Ridiculous, of course. It would be as absurd a piece of spin as saying that a death costs £1.4m. But that would not stop the manipulators using it, or the gullible believing it. After all, it says "Studies show....." at the beginning.
So if you simply let him/her die, you not only save the cost of the emergency response, you save the huge costs that saving his/her life would incur, over his/her remaining lifespan.
That should go down well at the subsequent inquiry! So using your own ideas would that mean we no longer carry out casevac's and Mispers?
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loads of money in Cleveland - new hq planned
There must be loads of money up here in the Northern regions.
The Cleveland Police Authority are now planning to build a new force HQ up the road from the old one by 2013 !!!!
I bet they are going to have their own swimming pool and gym to go with their own parking bays right next to the front door!
Plans unveiled for new Cleveland Police HQ - Local News - News - Gazette Live
Councillors playing with public money gone mad!
The Cleveland Police Authority are now planning to build a new force HQ up the road from the old one by 2013 !!!!
I bet they are going to have their own swimming pool and gym to go with their own parking bays right next to the front door!
Plans unveiled for new Cleveland Police HQ - Local News - News - Gazette Live
Councillors playing with public money gone mad!
Authority chairman Councillor Dave McLuckie, says the key to the move will be gaining planning consent for part of the Ladgate Lane site to be used for housing - and then its sale.
He said the move could be afforded because the sale of Ladgate Lane with approval for housing development should generate enough cash to meet the costs of both acquiring the site at Hemlington Grange and constructing the new building.
He said the move could be afforded because the sale of Ladgate Lane with approval for housing development should generate enough cash to meet the costs of both acquiring the site at Hemlington Grange and constructing the new building.
Just thought you may have forgotten the bit at the end...
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Didnt forget actually
Re; How to pay for the new building. A plan set in jelly I believe.
The ex British Steel site was built on foundary waste material (slag metal) according to HQ staff, which will make it difficult to excavate or build on.
Nobody wants to build at the moment (bit of a recession).
Why would anyone want to buy an old site which has major groundwork problems to add to the cost of building houses which are not being built?
The authority chairmanMcLuckie is well aware of these problems. He is a fan of making large expense claims, and using PFI to fund the latest new police stations in the area. He was the person who shouted from the roof tops about not wanting to amalgamate with Durham and Northumbria a year or so ago. Losing personal power may be be the answer there though?
£10 million for a new HQ is a lot of money to use out of a police budget that is already facing cutbacks. Its only the publics money though isnt it!
The latest from the Cleveland Police Authority is that they are now considering privatising the SOCO dept and hand it over to the private French firm Steria!! Which is after McLuckie promised not to privatise front line Police jobs!
He's still claiming all his expenses though! The same police authority members claimed £200k in expenses for all the councillors last year
Controversial Cleveland Police partnership could be extended to include officer roles (From The Northern Echo)
Last edited by props stopped; 1st Jan 2011 at 20:59. Reason: Latest SOCO announcement
lack of maintenance?
One thing that does worry me is the danger in the interim period of lack of unit maintenance. I am Not talking about aircraft maintenance but everything else.
If you are the chief, and aware that in about 12-18 months you are going to have to hand the whole thing over into the ownership of someone else, how much money are you going to spend between now and then in keeping things going?
Indeed if the machine develops an expensive problem between now & then and its not covered by warranty or other contract, are you going to do it?
I don't know the answer but I bet someone is going to find out pretty soon!
Tigerfish.
If you are the chief, and aware that in about 12-18 months you are going to have to hand the whole thing over into the ownership of someone else, how much money are you going to spend between now and then in keeping things going?
Indeed if the machine develops an expensive problem between now & then and its not covered by warranty or other contract, are you going to do it?
I don't know the answer but I bet someone is going to find out pretty soon!
Tigerfish.
Now thats a good way of saving money...
Police chiefs pocket 5-figure bonuses when thousands of officers face job loss risk | Mail Online
Police chiefs pocket 5-figure bonuses when thousands of officers face job loss risk | Mail Online
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10DowningSt
Im afraid you didnt..!
and yet you wrote
Without even casting doubt about the figure, which to use your terminology, is bollox..
33 police units x 2 million pounds each = 66 million.
Do you not find the sums somewhat simplistic..!!
and as for
Im afraid this comment alone shows how far removed you are, from knowing what your talking about.
How many "airborne pursuits result in a conviction".. erm nearly all of them..!
How many for more serious than "vehicle and traffic crime" .. What do you define as vehicle crime..?
No insurance ?
No licence ?
Disqualified driver ?
Stolen car ?
Stolen car from a burglary ?
Stolen car from a robbery / car jacking ?
Perhaps you could propose a sliding scale of which of these is serious enough to warrant an aircraft attending.. (oh wait, NPAS are probably going to that.!!)
Im all for balanced debate. But you are confusing Police Work with running a business.
It ISNT the same nor should it ever be.
Savings can be made without chopping the size of the fleet.
Now is not the time when frontline resources are being stretched to remove a massive force multiplier.
However, I'll retire from this fray; I had hoped to introduce some balance into the discussion, but I can see that it's not a welcome notion.
may I ask why otherwise sentient adults unquestioningly accept and pass on as "fact" financial and statistical numbers without ever looking twice at them and saying to themselves, "That cannot be right; let's see how they worked that out"?
Police Air Support activities costs the taxpayer £66,000,000 per year.
33 police units x 2 million pounds each = 66 million.
Do you not find the sums somewhat simplistic..!!
and as for
Exactly how many of the airborne pursuits result in a conviction at all, let alone one for something more serious than vehicle and road traffic crime?
How many "airborne pursuits result in a conviction".. erm nearly all of them..!
How many for more serious than "vehicle and traffic crime" .. What do you define as vehicle crime..?
No insurance ?
No licence ?
Disqualified driver ?
Stolen car ?
Stolen car from a burglary ?
Stolen car from a robbery / car jacking ?
Perhaps you could propose a sliding scale of which of these is serious enough to warrant an aircraft attending.. (oh wait, NPAS are probably going to that.!!)
Im all for balanced debate. But you are confusing Police Work with running a business.
It ISNT the same nor should it ever be.
Savings can be made without chopping the size of the fleet.
Now is not the time when frontline resources are being stretched to remove a massive force multiplier.
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10 Downing....
Apol's for the late response, been busy dealing with a little lateness myself....
Instead of posting such condescending and obnoxious rubbish, why don't you - as you concede your figures are probably wrong, just sod off and get them right, then try again ?
While you're there try working out which currency you're going to use
Apol's for the late response, been busy dealing with a little lateness myself....
Since you seem unfamiliar with this kind of calculation
While you're there try working out which currency you're going to use
... let us assume that a businessman's time is worth $257.48 per hour
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Wilts Air Ambulance
Further to the earlier post by PANews regarding the use of Colerne, this is from the local rag..
From the Wiltshire Times Website:
From the Wiltshire Times Website:
Wiltshire's air ambulance will be scrapped and replaced with just one aircraft serving the county, Avon and Somerset and Gloucester under new proposals for a National Police Air Service.
Under the austerity plans, the number of police helicopters and air bases will be slashed by a third across England and Wales.
But, it is claimed the measures will provide a more effective and "joined-up" air service, while simultaneously driving down costs.
It is understood Wiltshire Chief Constable Brian Moore has spoken out against the proposal because of the county's unique joint deal with the NHS to fund the air ambulance.
There are currently 30 police air bases in England and Wales that serve 33 aircraft, costing forces £66 million a year.
Under the plans this will be cut to 20 bases serving 23 aircraft - shaving £15 million off the air support budget.
The plan for Wiltshire would see the combined service based at RAF Colerne.
Rather than each force having its own helicopter patrolling its region, the new national service will be responsible for the whole of England and Wales and be operated from one central command centre.
There will also be a clear "user requirement" laid out, meaning cost-intensive flights will be approved only if they are necessary.
The ground-breaking proposals were put forward today by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), which has been working with the National Policing Improvement Agency.
Acpo president Sir Hugh Orde said: "This project is all about enhancing the service we already have for less money."
The project is already said to have the support of the majority of chief constables across England and Wales and is hoped to be officially rolled out in April 2012.
However, it will be the separate police authorities, who currently own the air bases and aircraft, who decide whether the "borderless" air service goes ahead.
As well as the proposed 23 aircraft - of which the Metropolitan Police will have three - there will be three spare helicopters on standby.
The oldest helicopters of the current fleet will be sold off along with some bases, which have large overhead costs. Acpo believes some jobs will be lost as a result of the overhaul, but said a number of officers would be redeployed.
Hampshire Police Chief Constable Alex Marshall has spearheaded the proposals and will be the head of NPAS.
He said that police helicopters across England and Wales currently offer 19 hours of coverage, but the new set-up would allow 24 hours.
The current response rate - which sees 97 per cent of the population receive air support in 20 minutes - would not be affected.
"There will also be a more specific user requirement focusing on searching for high-risk people who have gone missing, catching criminals who have committed a crime and for surveillance," added Mr Marshall.
"This is not merely a cost saving exercise. While the current service is capable of doing its day job, artificial boundaries have meant that helicopters are restricted to operating within their own force area. A national, borderless service will ensure effective coverage of urban and rural areas."
He added that if the proposals were given the green light and were successful, other aspects of the police service could be nationalised.
Sir Hugh, who represents the 42 police forces in the United Kingdom, said: "What we will get is a slightly enhanced service for less money without taking away from front line policing."
Not all forces have shown support for the National Police Air Service proposals.
South Yorkshire Police, which would have its helicopter withdrawn from service under the plans, claimed that the densely populated city of Sheffield would suffer.
The force's Chief Constable Meredydd Hughes said today: "The plan as presented today does not provide an adequate service to one of Britain's biggest cities, and treats Sheffield very poorly by comparison with Leeds, Bradford, Hull or Manchester.
"The proposal would rely on one of the UK police's busiest helicopters serving Leeds and Bradford to the north, and another currently serving Nottingham and Derby to the south, and there is no doubt that the response to Sheffield would be too slow, and far below the standard of today. The third helicopter proposed is based in Humberside."
Under the plans, aircraft serving the Merseyside, Cambridge and Dyfed-Powys regions would also be scrapped.
Sussex and Surrey would reduce to one aircraft, combine and relocate to a new base at Dunsfold.
Norfolk and Suffolk would also follow suit, relocating to a new base at RAF Honington.
Essex and Dorset's force aircraft would move their bases to Southend and Bournemouth Airport respectively, with aircraft serving West Midlands Police relocating to Wolverhampton Airport to form a two-unit base with West Mercia and Staffordshire.
Chief Constable Hughes added: "The report hides the deficiencies of the proposed service within generalised response times to the force as a whole, but it is the areas of highest crime; densest population; and major sports stadia which receive the poorest service."
The plans would also see aircraft covering Thames Valley, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire withdrawn from service, with provision continuing from other bases in the area.
Under the austerity plans, the number of police helicopters and air bases will be slashed by a third across England and Wales.
But, it is claimed the measures will provide a more effective and "joined-up" air service, while simultaneously driving down costs.
It is understood Wiltshire Chief Constable Brian Moore has spoken out against the proposal because of the county's unique joint deal with the NHS to fund the air ambulance.
There are currently 30 police air bases in England and Wales that serve 33 aircraft, costing forces £66 million a year.
Under the plans this will be cut to 20 bases serving 23 aircraft - shaving £15 million off the air support budget.
The plan for Wiltshire would see the combined service based at RAF Colerne.
Rather than each force having its own helicopter patrolling its region, the new national service will be responsible for the whole of England and Wales and be operated from one central command centre.
There will also be a clear "user requirement" laid out, meaning cost-intensive flights will be approved only if they are necessary.
The ground-breaking proposals were put forward today by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), which has been working with the National Policing Improvement Agency.
Acpo president Sir Hugh Orde said: "This project is all about enhancing the service we already have for less money."
The project is already said to have the support of the majority of chief constables across England and Wales and is hoped to be officially rolled out in April 2012.
However, it will be the separate police authorities, who currently own the air bases and aircraft, who decide whether the "borderless" air service goes ahead.
As well as the proposed 23 aircraft - of which the Metropolitan Police will have three - there will be three spare helicopters on standby.
The oldest helicopters of the current fleet will be sold off along with some bases, which have large overhead costs. Acpo believes some jobs will be lost as a result of the overhaul, but said a number of officers would be redeployed.
Hampshire Police Chief Constable Alex Marshall has spearheaded the proposals and will be the head of NPAS.
He said that police helicopters across England and Wales currently offer 19 hours of coverage, but the new set-up would allow 24 hours.
The current response rate - which sees 97 per cent of the population receive air support in 20 minutes - would not be affected.
"There will also be a more specific user requirement focusing on searching for high-risk people who have gone missing, catching criminals who have committed a crime and for surveillance," added Mr Marshall.
"This is not merely a cost saving exercise. While the current service is capable of doing its day job, artificial boundaries have meant that helicopters are restricted to operating within their own force area. A national, borderless service will ensure effective coverage of urban and rural areas."
He added that if the proposals were given the green light and were successful, other aspects of the police service could be nationalised.
Sir Hugh, who represents the 42 police forces in the United Kingdom, said: "What we will get is a slightly enhanced service for less money without taking away from front line policing."
Not all forces have shown support for the National Police Air Service proposals.
South Yorkshire Police, which would have its helicopter withdrawn from service under the plans, claimed that the densely populated city of Sheffield would suffer.
The force's Chief Constable Meredydd Hughes said today: "The plan as presented today does not provide an adequate service to one of Britain's biggest cities, and treats Sheffield very poorly by comparison with Leeds, Bradford, Hull or Manchester.
"The proposal would rely on one of the UK police's busiest helicopters serving Leeds and Bradford to the north, and another currently serving Nottingham and Derby to the south, and there is no doubt that the response to Sheffield would be too slow, and far below the standard of today. The third helicopter proposed is based in Humberside."
Under the plans, aircraft serving the Merseyside, Cambridge and Dyfed-Powys regions would also be scrapped.
Sussex and Surrey would reduce to one aircraft, combine and relocate to a new base at Dunsfold.
Norfolk and Suffolk would also follow suit, relocating to a new base at RAF Honington.
Essex and Dorset's force aircraft would move their bases to Southend and Bournemouth Airport respectively, with aircraft serving West Midlands Police relocating to Wolverhampton Airport to form a two-unit base with West Mercia and Staffordshire.
Chief Constable Hughes added: "The report hides the deficiencies of the proposed service within generalised response times to the force as a whole, but it is the areas of highest crime; densest population; and major sports stadia which receive the poorest service."
The plans would also see aircraft covering Thames Valley, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire withdrawn from service, with provision continuing from other bases in the area.
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Wilts Air Ambulance
Here's a follow-up article from the local press...
Wiltshire Air Ambulance vows to fly on alone
Wiltshire Air Ambulance vows to fly on alone
Wiltshire will continue to have an air ambulance should the police pull out of the shared helicopter, although it would mean a considerable increase in fund-raising, the boss of the air ambulance appeal said this week.
Proposals were announced on Tuesday that would result in the number of police helicopters in England and Wales reduced by a third to save money.
The proposals, by the Association of Chief Police Officers, would mean Wiltshire Police sharing a helicopter with forces in Avon and Somerset and Gloucestershire and for it to be based at RAF Colerne.
David Philpott, chairman of the Wiltshire Air Ambulance Appeal, said yesterday: “My information is that Wiltshire Constabulary will be staying in the contract with GWAS for the next four years and not relocating the helicopter to Colerne and if that is the case the constabulary should be congratulated.
“We have to plan for what I consider is the inevitable which is after 2014 there will be a stand-alone air ambulance for Wiltshire but this gives us plenty of time to gear up our fundraising efforts.”
The running cost of the joint helicopter is £1.3 million a year, with the police paying £800,000 and the Wiltshire Air Ambulance Appeal charity contributing £500,000, which includes paying the wages of the paramedics.
Mr Philpott said a stand-alone air ambulance would cost between £1.5 million to £2 million a year.
He said: “It is a big ask for the people of Wiltshire to increase fund-raising by more than 200 per cent but it’s been done elsewhere. We need to set out the case properly.”
Wiltshire’s police helicopter and air ambulance is one of only three such joint aircraft in the country and is one of only two air ambulances that can fly at night due to the specialist police equipment on board.
ACPO want the changes to take effect in April 2012 but Wiltshire Police’s contract with the Great Western Ambulance Service to operate a joint police helicopter and air ambulance runs until December 2014.
Both the police and GWAS can terminate the contract but need to give 18 months’ notice and pay a financial penalty.
Wiltshire Chief Constable Brian Moore said Wiltshire Police is committed to co-operating on a police/air ambulance helicopter until 2014.
He said: “Thereafter we will have to review what’s going to happen. It is desirable but not essential to have a police helicopter exclusively for our own use, provided that there is adequate air ambulance cover. But we will be looking to spend more money on frontline services designed to keep people safe.”
Dr Richard Riseley-Prichard, who lives in Allington near Devizes and was co-founder of the Wiltshire Air Ambulance Appeal, said: “The joint helicopter has worked brilliantly in every respect and also provides the most cost effective air ambulance in the country.
“I am very sad to think it might finish and rather surprised that the Home Office hasn’t recognised what a cost effective service it is. I can’t believe the air ambulance will die if the police withdraw.
“I’m quite sure that the people of Wiltshire will continue to give donations.”
Proposals were announced on Tuesday that would result in the number of police helicopters in England and Wales reduced by a third to save money.
The proposals, by the Association of Chief Police Officers, would mean Wiltshire Police sharing a helicopter with forces in Avon and Somerset and Gloucestershire and for it to be based at RAF Colerne.
David Philpott, chairman of the Wiltshire Air Ambulance Appeal, said yesterday: “My information is that Wiltshire Constabulary will be staying in the contract with GWAS for the next four years and not relocating the helicopter to Colerne and if that is the case the constabulary should be congratulated.
“We have to plan for what I consider is the inevitable which is after 2014 there will be a stand-alone air ambulance for Wiltshire but this gives us plenty of time to gear up our fundraising efforts.”
The running cost of the joint helicopter is £1.3 million a year, with the police paying £800,000 and the Wiltshire Air Ambulance Appeal charity contributing £500,000, which includes paying the wages of the paramedics.
Mr Philpott said a stand-alone air ambulance would cost between £1.5 million to £2 million a year.
He said: “It is a big ask for the people of Wiltshire to increase fund-raising by more than 200 per cent but it’s been done elsewhere. We need to set out the case properly.”
Wiltshire’s police helicopter and air ambulance is one of only three such joint aircraft in the country and is one of only two air ambulances that can fly at night due to the specialist police equipment on board.
ACPO want the changes to take effect in April 2012 but Wiltshire Police’s contract with the Great Western Ambulance Service to operate a joint police helicopter and air ambulance runs until December 2014.
Both the police and GWAS can terminate the contract but need to give 18 months’ notice and pay a financial penalty.
Wiltshire Chief Constable Brian Moore said Wiltshire Police is committed to co-operating on a police/air ambulance helicopter until 2014.
He said: “Thereafter we will have to review what’s going to happen. It is desirable but not essential to have a police helicopter exclusively for our own use, provided that there is adequate air ambulance cover. But we will be looking to spend more money on frontline services designed to keep people safe.”
Dr Richard Riseley-Prichard, who lives in Allington near Devizes and was co-founder of the Wiltshire Air Ambulance Appeal, said: “The joint helicopter has worked brilliantly in every respect and also provides the most cost effective air ambulance in the country.
“I am very sad to think it might finish and rather surprised that the Home Office hasn’t recognised what a cost effective service it is. I can’t believe the air ambulance will die if the police withdraw.
“I’m quite sure that the people of Wiltshire will continue to give donations.”
There are threads within threads in all of this and it is often difficult to work out who is for and who is against. For instance I was not aware that the CC of Wiltshire was a little peeved. That might at least allow the post 2014 air ambulance to use the same current base at headquarters. Assuming that the fund raise is successful - and why shouldn't it be?
There are other air ambulances affected by these proposals - Devon for instance, with accommodation, pilotage and maintenance all locked into D&C Police HQ. - and that will take some chewing over.
You may have read somewhere that Magpas the 'Doctors on helicopters' group up in Cambridgeshire is fundraising around £1M. Of course they fly as air ambulance volunteers on the Cambridge police helicopter as well as East Anglia AA out of Wyton. They will stop flying with the AA in the New Year [replaced by a commercial arrangement based in London] and the police aircraft will probably go in a year or so. Very quietly in the background the CEO of Magpas is David Philpott.... now that is a familiar name.....
Threads within threads....
There are other air ambulances affected by these proposals - Devon for instance, with accommodation, pilotage and maintenance all locked into D&C Police HQ. - and that will take some chewing over.
You may have read somewhere that Magpas the 'Doctors on helicopters' group up in Cambridgeshire is fundraising around £1M. Of course they fly as air ambulance volunteers on the Cambridge police helicopter as well as East Anglia AA out of Wyton. They will stop flying with the AA in the New Year [replaced by a commercial arrangement based in London] and the police aircraft will probably go in a year or so. Very quietly in the background the CEO of Magpas is David Philpott.... now that is a familiar name.....
Threads within threads....
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The Met Police Air Support unit is under threat
The Met Police Air Support unit is under threat ? MayorWatch
What a pity Ms Borwick didn't get to the sentence in the media announcement that says "As well as the proposed 23 aircraft - of which the Metropolitan Police will have three - there will be three spare helicopters on standby."
Now if one was Boris, One would feel a 'dead cert' back scratching exercise coming on
London Assembly Member Victoria Borwick is seeking assurances from Boris Johnson that the Metropolitan Police Service’s air support will not be reduced after Government ‘austerity plans’ proposed that the number of police helicopters and air bases be slashed by a third across England and Wales.
These decisions are still being debated and I am calling on the Mayor to protect London’s citizens in a cost effective way, otherwise once again London ends up subsidising the rest of the country, when we need this resource immediately available in the capital.
Now if one was Boris, One would feel a 'dead cert' back scratching exercise coming on
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The man is completely deluded
Thesauraus - "Austerity" = the trait of great self-denial
How far is it to that 90 degree blind bend at the bottom of the hill you mentioned ?
Methinks a complete 180 would be a better option
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How many "airborne pursuits result in a conviction".. erm nearly all of them..!
Then we may be able to 1 keep air support 2 put more cops on the streets 3 put more scum in jail
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Latest from Cleveland's Authority on saving money
I've added the latest details on Clevelands privatisation plans in my thread above. post # 882
The Cleveland Police Authority are now even looking into turning the SOCO dept over to a private firm!
They really have lost the plot to save a few bob!
The Cleveland Police Authority are now even looking into turning the SOCO dept over to a private firm!
They really have lost the plot to save a few bob!
We know about South Yorkshire complaining, and I mentioned the other day about the Bristol MP going off on one.... it seems the Bristol Evening Post has picked this storyline up in a big way today. An article and a very pro Editorial in the hard copy and the article in the on-line version.
OK so it may have been a low news day but it is something.
This is Bristol
OK so it may have been a low news day but it is something.
This is Bristol
A FORMER top-ranking police officer responsible for introducing a helicopter to cover the Bristol region has warned of soaring crime rates if it moves from its base at Filton to Wiltshire.
Retired police superintendent Brian Allinson said the outstanding success of police helicopters was based on the speed at which they can respond to incidents as they are happening.
The Filton-based helicopter can fly to the scene of an incident in Bristol within three minutes, but this could stretch to at least 20 minutes if it was moved to RAF Colerne.
The Evening Post revealed earlier this week that Filton and Bradley Stoke MP Jack Lopresti had tabled a question on the issue to the Home Secretary Theresa May because he fears the move would lead to an increase in crime.
Mr Allinson said the proposals to move the helicopter base were typical of the "woolly thinking that bedevils these plans".
He said: "At present, the Western Counties Air Operations Unit covers the counties of Avon and Somerset and Gloucestershire.
"It is based less than three minutes flying time from Bristol because that is where the major crime problem lies. Until the creation of the unit, the area suffered very high levels of vehicle crime, vehicle pursuits and on-street crime such as ram-raiding. The omnipresence of the helicopter within a few minutes has markedly reduced that effect. The proposal to close the unit at Filton and move it to RAF Colerne will have a very serious effect on the aircraft's ability to reach Bristol in an acceptable timescale.
The flying time alone is approaching 20 minutes, leaving nothing at all to allow for communication difficulties and start-up times. I would submit that the proposals will make the aircraft's ability to provide any meaningful service to Bristol almost impossible."
Mr Allinson was responsible for introducing the police helicopter on a part-time basis in 1989 and it became a 24-hour, seven-days-a-week service in 1995. He said: "Our earliest lesson way back in the 1980s confirmed that unless it was possible to have an aircraft overhead the scene of the incident within 20 minutes of its inception, then its ability to have any effect on the incident was markedly reduced. "In other words, if it wasn't possible to get it there quickly, it probably wasn't worth sending it, for the criminal would be long gone."
Mr Allinson, now a self-employed consultant who liaises between the police and the helicopter industry, stressed that he welcomes the setting up of a national police air service. He said the move would lead to cheaper overheads that would make it easier for police forces to pay for helicopters. The helicopter costs more than £1 million a year to run and, according to the latest statistics, deals with more than 3,300 police tasks each year, about 2,200 of which are crime-related.
Mr Allinson warned: "These plans bear nothing of a drive for more efficiency but merely a desire to save money. The fleet is to be reduced from 32 helicopters to 23 and the number of bases from 27 to 20. Not only do these plans remove close-in air supports for the key cities of Bristol, Liverpool, Birmingham and Sheffield, but they leave the jam spread so thinly over the rest of the country that aircraft will always be operating at the limits of their effective range.
"In addition to these major flaws, the plans also place the responsibility of administering the new body with the British Transport Police, an organisation that knows next to nothing about police air support."
Another factor is the notoriously poor weather at RAF Colerne, which would hamper flying, whereas the Filton base has 24-hour landing lights which helps the police helicopter to return to its base in poor conditions. The formation of a national police air service is being led by Alex Marshall, Chief Constable of Hampshire police.
His project leader is Police Superintendent Richard Watson, who said they recognised that helicopters were a very valuable tool in police work. But he said that they needed to be run more efficiently. He said the new service would mean more helicopters were available to cover when incidents occurred. Mr Watson said that a balance had to be achieved in what could be provided in the light of public spending cuts.
A final decision will not be made until next year and after police authorities have been consulted for their views.
Retired police superintendent Brian Allinson said the outstanding success of police helicopters was based on the speed at which they can respond to incidents as they are happening.
The Filton-based helicopter can fly to the scene of an incident in Bristol within three minutes, but this could stretch to at least 20 minutes if it was moved to RAF Colerne.
The Evening Post revealed earlier this week that Filton and Bradley Stoke MP Jack Lopresti had tabled a question on the issue to the Home Secretary Theresa May because he fears the move would lead to an increase in crime.
Mr Allinson said the proposals to move the helicopter base were typical of the "woolly thinking that bedevils these plans".
He said: "At present, the Western Counties Air Operations Unit covers the counties of Avon and Somerset and Gloucestershire.
"It is based less than three minutes flying time from Bristol because that is where the major crime problem lies. Until the creation of the unit, the area suffered very high levels of vehicle crime, vehicle pursuits and on-street crime such as ram-raiding. The omnipresence of the helicopter within a few minutes has markedly reduced that effect. The proposal to close the unit at Filton and move it to RAF Colerne will have a very serious effect on the aircraft's ability to reach Bristol in an acceptable timescale.
The flying time alone is approaching 20 minutes, leaving nothing at all to allow for communication difficulties and start-up times. I would submit that the proposals will make the aircraft's ability to provide any meaningful service to Bristol almost impossible."
Mr Allinson was responsible for introducing the police helicopter on a part-time basis in 1989 and it became a 24-hour, seven-days-a-week service in 1995. He said: "Our earliest lesson way back in the 1980s confirmed that unless it was possible to have an aircraft overhead the scene of the incident within 20 minutes of its inception, then its ability to have any effect on the incident was markedly reduced. "In other words, if it wasn't possible to get it there quickly, it probably wasn't worth sending it, for the criminal would be long gone."
Mr Allinson, now a self-employed consultant who liaises between the police and the helicopter industry, stressed that he welcomes the setting up of a national police air service. He said the move would lead to cheaper overheads that would make it easier for police forces to pay for helicopters. The helicopter costs more than £1 million a year to run and, according to the latest statistics, deals with more than 3,300 police tasks each year, about 2,200 of which are crime-related.
Mr Allinson warned: "These plans bear nothing of a drive for more efficiency but merely a desire to save money. The fleet is to be reduced from 32 helicopters to 23 and the number of bases from 27 to 20. Not only do these plans remove close-in air supports for the key cities of Bristol, Liverpool, Birmingham and Sheffield, but they leave the jam spread so thinly over the rest of the country that aircraft will always be operating at the limits of their effective range.
"In addition to these major flaws, the plans also place the responsibility of administering the new body with the British Transport Police, an organisation that knows next to nothing about police air support."
Another factor is the notoriously poor weather at RAF Colerne, which would hamper flying, whereas the Filton base has 24-hour landing lights which helps the police helicopter to return to its base in poor conditions. The formation of a national police air service is being led by Alex Marshall, Chief Constable of Hampshire police.
His project leader is Police Superintendent Richard Watson, who said they recognised that helicopters were a very valuable tool in police work. But he said that they needed to be run more efficiently. He said the new service would mean more helicopters were available to cover when incidents occurred. Mr Watson said that a balance had to be achieved in what could be provided in the light of public spending cuts.
A final decision will not be made until next year and after police authorities have been consulted for their views.