UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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Most of Scotland has to make do without Air Support because it isn't Scotland police it is a combination of individual forces. whilst they cover a large geographical area they don't have a large population - so basically they can't afford it. As for after 22:00 it isn't a case of managing without it - as if you want it you still get it , just takes a bit longer - but we all need to get used to that aspect of things!
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Here is a thought..... everyone is discussing TUPE, how does it stand if a pilot is employed or contracted by a specific force to fly that specific force area using that specific forces' aircraft. Under NPAS, there will be no specific force aircraft and no specific force area.... It will be a totally new organisation, flying completely new areas. How do TUPE rules apply? I would suggest they probably dont and everyone, regardless of whether an aircraft is operating from their current base will have to apply for employment under NPAS.
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I suppose that is the main outcome off all this restructuring, less aircraft over a larger geographical area means slower response times. Interesting that we are informed that the "20 minute response has not been affected", as I understood it , 15 minutes was the response time (a bit of a fib then). So there is a increase of 33% in the time a criminal has to do the job and get away on their toes. Sounds like a real bargain for the villains to me.
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Let's toss this one in the pan and see what sizzles :
What would happen if a Chief Constable or Police Authority,
from one of the forces earmarked to lose their aircraft,
decided not to play along with the NPAS game,
and said - "OI - NPAS - NOoooooooo !"
?
( Choose an appropriate regional accent to read the above line )
What would happen if a Chief Constable or Police Authority,
from one of the forces earmarked to lose their aircraft,
decided not to play along with the NPAS game,
and said - "OI - NPAS - NOoooooooo !"
?( Choose an appropriate regional accent to read the above line )
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money = power
Re Coccunutys commnets, Pan, fire etc.
I think if the CC or authority councillors decided not to go along with NPAS (Home Office), then those councillors and Chief may find funding such an operation rather difficult in the present financial climate...
Clevelands police authority chairman has been quoted in the past that he didnt want to join other forces, but has now amalgamated his traffic and firearms departments with Durham! money or the lack of it sure changes how some councillors think UP north..I wonder which cap badge they will wear?
NPAS is long overdue, seeing how quiet some northern areas really are..
Its not about single force empires anymore..its about using air support in neighbouring forces when required, without the need for a senior officer to authorise its payment beforehand.
I think if the CC or authority councillors decided not to go along with NPAS (Home Office), then those councillors and Chief may find funding such an operation rather difficult in the present financial climate...
Clevelands police authority chairman has been quoted in the past that he didnt want to join other forces, but has now amalgamated his traffic and firearms departments with Durham! money or the lack of it sure changes how some councillors think UP north..I wonder which cap badge they will wear?
NPAS is long overdue, seeing how quiet some northern areas really are..
Its not about single force empires anymore..its about using air support in neighbouring forces when required, without the need for a senior officer to authorise its payment beforehand.
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ACPO's own Press release confirms that the initial proposals are NOT set in stone,
and that there are LIKELY to be some changes ....
http://www.acpo.police.uk/pressrelease.asp?PR_GUID={4159BF46-892A-4ABA-B06E-8B2909D1353A}
So "Subject to addressing the concerns of forces" may well include, for example, the CC of South Yorkshire :
BBC News - Concern South Yorkshire helicopter 'could be scrapped'
.... and maybe the plans to have NO aircraft located in the "Second City", might also be a concern when you read ACPO's paragraph :
How on Earth would moving an aircraft completely out of the second largest Metropolitan Police Force area,
result in more, or just as "effective coverage" of that mainly urban area ?
and that there are LIKELY to be some changes ....
http://www.acpo.police.uk/pressrelease.asp?PR_GUID={4159BF46-892A-4ABA-B06E-8B2909D1353A}
The following is a breakdown of proposed base sites. Please note that these are likely to change ( my italics) they are as highlighted in the original proposal only. They are also subject to sign off from the relevant police authority. This is the planning principle. It may change subject to addressing the concerns of some forces.
- Western Counties (currently serving Avon and Somerset and Gloucester) and Wiltshire (Consortium with Great Western Air Ambulance) will reduce to one aircraft, combine and relocate to a new base at RAF Colerne;
- Sussex and Surrey will reduce to one aircraft, combine and relocate to a new base at Dunsfold;
- Norfolk and Suffolk will reduce to one aircraft, combine and relocate to a new base at RAF Honington;
- Merseyside aircraft will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- South Yorkshire aircraft will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- Cambridge aircraft will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- Dyfed-Powys aircraft will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- The RAF Henlow based aircraft from Chiltern Air Support Unit (Thames Valley, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire) will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- Essex aircraft will relocate to Southend Airport;
- Dorset aircraft will relocate to Bournemouth Airport;
- West Midlands aircraft will relocate to work from Wolverhampton Airport creating a two aircraft unit with Central Counties (West Mercia and Staffordshire). Both aircraft currently work under the Central Motorway Police Group banner;
- Western Counties (currently serving Avon and Somerset and Gloucester) and Wiltshire (Consortium with Great Western Air Ambulance) will reduce to one aircraft, combine and relocate to a new base at RAF Colerne;
- Sussex and Surrey will reduce to one aircraft, combine and relocate to a new base at Dunsfold;
- Norfolk and Suffolk will reduce to one aircraft, combine and relocate to a new base at RAF Honington;
- Merseyside aircraft will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- South Yorkshire aircraft will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- Cambridge aircraft will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- Dyfed-Powys aircraft will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- The RAF Henlow based aircraft from Chiltern Air Support Unit (Thames Valley, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire) will be withdrawn from service with provision continuing from other bases in the area;
- Essex aircraft will relocate to Southend Airport;
- Dorset aircraft will relocate to Bournemouth Airport;
- West Midlands aircraft will relocate to work from Wolverhampton Airport creating a two aircraft unit with Central Counties (West Mercia and Staffordshire). Both aircraft currently work under the Central Motorway Police Group banner;
BBC News - Concern South Yorkshire helicopter 'could be scrapped'
.... But the plans in detail would take away the air base which we currently have at Sheffield, and we would then get our service from bases in West Yorkshire, Humberside and Ripley in Derbyshire.
.... I think that's too far away.
.... I will fight to make sure we continue to get the service we need in Sheffield, which of course is our busiest area.
.... I think that's too far away.
.... I will fight to make sure we continue to get the service we need in Sheffield, which of course is our busiest area.
While the current service is capable of doing its day job, artificial boundaries have meant that helicopters are restricted to operating within their own force area. A national, borderless service will ensure effective coverage of urban and rural areas.
result in more, or just as "effective coverage" of that mainly urban area ?
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NPAS is long overdue,
Its not about single force empires anymore..its about using air support in neighbouring forces when required, without the need for a senior officer to authorise its payment beforehand.
Its not about single force empires anymore..its about using air support in neighbouring forces when required, without the need for a senior officer to authorise its payment beforehand.
Those that know FA are once again in charge of ruining a great service
Avoid imitations
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outsourcing with the cheapest bidder (though the cheapest bidder may in fact be direct employment).
There are masses of issues that I cannot see being sorted out by 2014 never mind 2012.
Yes the national route ought to be explored but at the moment they have just said they are going to do it and thats that.
And what do we have in charge? The ACPO Lead is the CC of Hampshire FC... sorry ASU .... now deceased..... the main operator is Kent who have never had an ASU except a decade ago they had a £25,000 budget for occasional use of a Cessna 172.... and the centre of operations is the railway police who were only allowed air support for X hours a year when Jarvis Engineering also an RIP company were not using the helicopter to see whether the points were working.
Now which bit of that rich mixture is exuding experience of the product?
Based on their 'experience' this team has decided that there will be savings of some 15M ...... but as I think I may have indicated there is no experience... so why did they not go for gold and save £100m instead? I am sure they can produce figures to 'prove' it.
When the real savings [overspend] arrives will they admit it? Of course not, they will then decide it was a savings figure relating to '2020' because that is how long it will take them to divest themselves the debts they are going to build up buying out the various contracts.
Yes the national route ought to be explored but at the moment they have just said they are going to do it and thats that.
And what do we have in charge? The ACPO Lead is the CC of Hampshire FC... sorry ASU .... now deceased..... the main operator is Kent who have never had an ASU except a decade ago they had a £25,000 budget for occasional use of a Cessna 172.... and the centre of operations is the railway police who were only allowed air support for X hours a year when Jarvis Engineering also an RIP company were not using the helicopter to see whether the points were working.
Now which bit of that rich mixture is exuding experience of the product?
Based on their 'experience' this team has decided that there will be savings of some 15M ...... but as I think I may have indicated there is no experience... so why did they not go for gold and save £100m instead? I am sure they can produce figures to 'prove' it.
When the real savings [overspend] arrives will they admit it? Of course not, they will then decide it was a savings figure relating to '2020' because that is how long it will take them to divest themselves the debts they are going to build up buying out the various contracts.
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Rainy night thoughts.
I keep wondering if anyone has actually asked RAF Colerne, Dunsfold, RAF Honington, Southend Airport, Bournemouth Airport or Wolverhampton Airport if they would/could actually be allowed to operate a Police Helicopter, or in some cases, increase the present helicopter operating hours and movements from their property.
I'm sure various financial managers are rubbing their hands in anticipation, but I can't wait for the locals to be told!
I'm sure various financial managers are rubbing their hands in anticipation, but I can't wait for the locals to be told!
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charity
If it was an air ambulance charity, it would make money.
Look at the air ambulance charity up here, they have just bought 2 dauphins, and still have change for a rapid response car.
Look at the air ambulance charity up here, they have just bought 2 dauphins, and still have change for a rapid response car.
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Don't Save Money...Make It!
Props,
Isn't this malarky the ultimate example of why Air Ambulances are charity run.
Also, it's about time companies such as 'Tracker' were charged for services.
For example;
http://www.tracker.co.uk/TRACKER/Doc...veryUpdate.pdf
TRACKER Recoveries 19,964
£100 a recovery for example, would have generated almost £2 million so far!
They would have to pay up, otherwise the company won't be able to exist when all the Police vehicles have the kit taken out!
If BT etc can charge Police Forces a fee to triangulate mobile phones, why not?
Isn't this malarky the ultimate example of why Air Ambulances are charity run.
Also, it's about time companies such as 'Tracker' were charged for services.
For example;
http://www.tracker.co.uk/TRACKER/Doc...veryUpdate.pdf
TRACKER Recoveries 19,964
£100 a recovery for example, would have generated almost £2 million so far!
They would have to pay up, otherwise the company won't be able to exist when all the Police vehicles have the kit taken out!
If BT etc can charge Police Forces a fee to triangulate mobile phones, why not?
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Sid, there are not as many tracker equipped cars out on the road as you might think, and even some of the few that are, belong to Tracker not the Police.
The current state of Tracker work, by the Police, is shadow of how it started out.
The current state of Tracker work, by the Police, is shadow of how it started out.
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props stopped. Well done to the team up there - that's a tremendous achievement.
As for Tracker, when I had my car stolen they were useless. 2 police cars couldn't find it - had to get the copter up in the end. Tracker were completely unhelpful & the system is far from flawed I found out.
N
As for Tracker, when I had my car stolen they were useless. 2 police cars couldn't find it - had to get the copter up in the end. Tracker were completely unhelpful & the system is far from flawed I found out.
N
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I have read through the posts and I think I should hold my hands up and say congratulations to NPAS, they have brought the ASU's together and achieved some goals that I had thought were not going to happen.
1: Ground the Liverpool aircraft where the scallies depite numerous attacks had failed
2: Remove the helicopter from Birmingham again despite the scallies
destroying one they returned like the phoenix from the flames.
3: Removing the South Yorks helicopter despite being very busy.... err that goes for the two above as well!!!
4: Moving the Birmingham helicopter out of the area and putting two at Wolverhampton where security is non-existant and now that its been on the news the scallies are already filling up their petrol cans.
All to save 15m which is nothing in the grand scheme of things, I reckon a few cuts to the PM and other MP's discreet private budgets would more than cover that, but hey the PM's wife must have her stylist at 60k a year
The loonies really have taken over the asylum
1: Ground the Liverpool aircraft where the scallies depite numerous attacks had failed
2: Remove the helicopter from Birmingham again despite the scallies
destroying one they returned like the phoenix from the flames.
3: Removing the South Yorks helicopter despite being very busy.... err that goes for the two above as well!!!
4: Moving the Birmingham helicopter out of the area and putting two at Wolverhampton where security is non-existant and now that its been on the news the scallies are already filling up their petrol cans.
All to save 15m which is nothing in the grand scheme of things, I reckon a few cuts to the PM and other MP's discreet private budgets would more than cover that, but hey the PM's wife must have her stylist at 60k a year
The loonies really have taken over the asylum
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Also, it's about time companies such as 'Tracker' were charged for services
Volvo, BMW, Vauxhall, Ford, Motorola, Sepura, BT, O2, Vodafone, etc etc all provide equipment to police services in order to help them carry out their duties. All of them make large profits by charging the police authorities, and ultimately us the tax payer, for supplying their equipment.
Tracker, however, provide their equipment free of charge!!!
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Mmmmmm, let's have a think about this. Believe it or not, apart from saving life, it is the primary role of the police to prevent and detect crime!
Yes, Volvo, BMW, Vauxhall, Ford, Motorola, Sepura, BT, O2, Vodafone, etc etc do provide the equipment to the police services paid for by the public... for public duties, however I would suggest that this type of equipment fulfils a multitude of roles in service of the public and just jobs for a particular commercial company.
Do the Police just do jobs related to BMW crime in their BMWs? Would they only attend a robbery at the Ford garage in a Fiesta? And goodness me, if Carphone Warehouse was to be ram raided, would everyone available be sent on foot
In the case of Tracker equipment, as highlighted, it is provided free, (electronics are cheap these days, both the receiving and transmitting systems), yet the punter is charged quite a price to have it fitted to their vehicle/plant etc.
It just seems not quite right in these times, that a commercial company such as RBS, with assets of £1.696 trillion rely on a struggling public service to do all the work for them for no cost.