UK Police helicopter budget cuts
chopper2004 - I think that you may have grabbed not only the wrong end of the stick but, perhaps, the wrong stick entirely.
Tigerfish - good to have you back.
Tigerfish - good to have you back.
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The Home Office said: “The National Police Air Service will provide a more consistent service while saving forces........."
If it's Home Office then it's different from the original NPAS statement,
iI it's NPAS then it's an admission that the original statement,
which promised a more efficient service while saving money, was WRONG.
Whoever is making the 'new' statement, the term "consistent" would appear to be much more appropriate.
I'm actually very concerned that the statement is true, and an NPAS service WILL be consistent :
Consistently arriving on scene too late to be effective,
Consistently declining requests for Air Support that would previously have received a response,
Consistently reducing the confidence of Police Officers on the ground, that they will receive the level of Air support they need,
Consistently reducing the Public's satisfaction with the Police service they receive,
Consistently improving the chances of criminals, including the serious and organised varieties, to escape and evade capture.
If the quoted 'new' statement is accurate, then ( whoever said it ) at least there now appears to be
an admission that NPAS will NOT be more efficient than the services provided now.
Which just leaves the cost - and those costs keep going up and up - a few Million here for new bases,
a few hundred thousand there for new top level jobs that hadn't originally been factored in,
unknown additional "shared costs" between those that do sign up,
to compensate for the lack of revenue from those that don't, etc etc etc .
No wonder NPAS still seem to be reluctant to reveal detailed costings - are they struggling to PROVE that NPAS will save any money at all ?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Beware the Ides of March, or more accurately, the Kalends of April.
Historical note:
The conspirators attacked in such numbers that they even wounded one another.
Historical note:
The conspirators attacked in such numbers that they even wounded one another.
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JAFO, perhaps Choppers 'stick' could be used as a magic wand and invent runway lighting, a met office, on site maintenance (well some times...) and an ILS at Honington (along with the other 135?)? Hang on a minute.....
J.A.F.O
My apologies, I must have got certain articles mixed up but please put me right! Cambs will lose their Explorer at some point and the Suffolk/Essex guys will be looking after the academic end of the A14 and M11 and A428
Art of Flight
I wish I could wave a magic wand
Cheers
My apologies, I must have got certain articles mixed up but please put me right! Cambs will lose their Explorer at some point and the Suffolk/Essex guys will be looking after the academic end of the A14 and M11 and A428
Art of Flight
I wish I could wave a magic wand
Cheers
Last edited by chopper2004; 22nd Nov 2011 at 13:27.
To be honest, chopper, you've got as much chance of being right as anybody; you don't get over 2000 posts on a topic if anybody really knows the answer.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
To be honest, chopper, you've got as much chance of being right as anybody; you don't get over 2000 posts on a topic if anybody really knows the answer.
Any news on the NPAS PAOC?
Just interested as NPAS will be operating the same number of aircraft as an operator such as DHL and wondered if the numbers operated under one organisation will be making a difference.
If for some reason the NPAS AOC isn't sorted by April 1st, will we actually have any air support? Looks like South Yorkshire could be both busy and making a profit from the start !
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Oh come on now Sid! Down south we reckoned we'd just about cracked this NPAS lark by thinking about forming a badge design working party for our region in time for actually getting it to meet by April and you go off on some obscure tangent raving about legislation
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Oh no !!!
An excuse for that blazing saddles video to be posted.
An excuse for that blazing saddles video to be posted.
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Chopper,
What is in the public domain is that the Norfolk aircraft is no more, Suffolk AOU has amalgamated with Norfolk ASU and the ex-Norfolk ASU observers now crew the soon to be ex-Suffolk 135P2+ along with pilots and observers (police and civilian) from the Eastern counties consortium (Suffolk/Essex/Cambridgeshire) The ex-Suffolk aircraft is to move to a new NPAS base at RAF Honington sometime in the future to better serve the expanded area of operations which includes Norfolk and Cambridgeshire, and in preparation has new owners stickers on the doors using the first 3 letters of the former owners and the last 4 letters of the new partners, 'SUFFOLK'. If not actually saving money with the new stickers they were at least a no-cost option. The Essex 135 is not moving to Honington and already has Kent stickers (3 years old now) on it so again whilst not saving money, not spending any either!
What is in the public domain is that the Norfolk aircraft is no more, Suffolk AOU has amalgamated with Norfolk ASU and the ex-Norfolk ASU observers now crew the soon to be ex-Suffolk 135P2+ along with pilots and observers (police and civilian) from the Eastern counties consortium (Suffolk/Essex/Cambridgeshire) The ex-Suffolk aircraft is to move to a new NPAS base at RAF Honington sometime in the future to better serve the expanded area of operations which includes Norfolk and Cambridgeshire, and in preparation has new owners stickers on the doors using the first 3 letters of the former owners and the last 4 letters of the new partners, 'SUFFOLK'. If not actually saving money with the new stickers they were at least a no-cost option. The Essex 135 is not moving to Honington and already has Kent stickers (3 years old now) on it so again whilst not saving money, not spending any either!
Oh Dear!
Now perhaps some of you might be starting to understand what I have been saying!
Can someone please explain to this simple mind, how one aircraft can provide rapid support to a Bobby in trouble, or any sudden serious crime incident, occuring somewhere in the three Counties of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgshire, - and get there in 15 minutes?
Policing is all about " The prevention and detection of Crime and the prosecution of offenders against the Peace". Or am I missing the point?
Come on Guy's lets find a way of bringing this debacle to public attention!
It is a 100% stone wall ***K up.
I might have been stabbed in the back once, but now I am really quite cross!
tigerfish
Can someone please explain to this simple mind, how one aircraft can provide rapid support to a Bobby in trouble, or any sudden serious crime incident, occuring somewhere in the three Counties of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgshire, - and get there in 15 minutes?
Policing is all about " The prevention and detection of Crime and the prosecution of offenders against the Peace". Or am I missing the point?
Come on Guy's lets find a way of bringing this debacle to public attention!
It is a 100% stone wall ***K up.
I might have been stabbed in the back once, but now I am really quite cross!
tigerfish
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Sorry Tiger, it is not about " rapid response", it is about rethoric like " enhanced service because the CC has acces to air support for 24 hrs", regardless of response times. The sad thing is that like most things political this can be spun in any fashion as to give the impression desired by the spinner. The trouble I have with all this is that I think it is the thin edge of a very uncertain wedge. We will have to see I suppose.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
How was NPAS created?
Just looking to the future, as there are going to be plenty of times ahead where we are all going to be placed in the redundancy pot, (legally or not) how does someone go about getting a job within NPAS ?
I realise that not all public sector jobs have to be advertised, but does NPAS really fall in to the so specialist a department that it doesn't need to? Surely that system, used incorrectly, allows those with 'other agendas' to fulfill them?
I realise that not all public sector jobs have to be advertised, but does NPAS really fall in to the so specialist a department that it doesn't need to? Surely that system, used incorrectly, allows those with 'other agendas' to fulfill them?
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Policing is all about " The prevention and detection of Crime and the prosecution of offenders against the Peace". Or am I missing the point?
( After all a 20 minute circle is only 1/3 of the Golden Hour during a Casevac
).Those definitions are probably still true on paper, but in reality we see more and more examples
of those higher up the food chain appearing to be more concerned with how something will look on their C.V.
or whether their plans can be achieved in time for the next New Year's Honour's nominations,
than the practical and / or personal effect their decisions can make,
while at the bottom of the ladder, at humble P.C. level, the main priority is often
"How can I get through another shift without dropping in the brown stuff?"
Never mind bringing NPAS to the attention of the Council Tax paying Public,
the vast majority of the tens of thousands of Police Officers and staff out there who are the main "customers"
( apologies for lowering myself to using such a term ) of Air Support Units,
have absolutely no idea of what NPAS is, or how it will affect their day to day brown stuff avoiding roles.
How to publicise it ? - Well, a lot of forces are now getting all Touchy Feely with their communities
by using Social media interaction such as Farcebook and Twatter,
so how about some of the information that IS in the Public domain being posted up ?
Hopefully the Public and other "customers" may ask some searching questions, and honest answers can be given ?
And there's always the option of starting a Government e-petition once the ball is rolling
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tigerfish,
I thought your post 2061 was as concise and accurate a summary of how air support will change for the worse under NPAS, as I have seen.
I suspect I am not alone in that. That we did not all post a "here here" does not mean that we do not agree with you: quite the reverse. Except for a few trolls or stirrers, almost everyone who owns this thread agrees with you.
The question you raise in your latest post is the difficult one.
We know what you say is correct. The career senior police officers who are trying to sell NPAS are acting now just like politicians, but it still surprises me that they are prepared to twist and turn and use political-speak to say half-truths and even lie about air support effectiveness. It may be borne partly of limited knowledge of how air support works - the only qualification in common that the names I see as senior NPAS postholders have seems to be no significant previous experience of air support.
But how do we raise this and where, so that it has any chance of changing things? Universal mediocrity of air support is on its way. Countless hours of wasted and pointless transits to wave an aerial police flag over a cold crime scene.
It may be that we should at least try to do something (in order to be able to say that at least we tried), but I regretfully doubt that we coal face (or ex) workers will be listened to.
I thought your post 2061 was as concise and accurate a summary of how air support will change for the worse under NPAS, as I have seen.
I suspect I am not alone in that. That we did not all post a "here here" does not mean that we do not agree with you: quite the reverse. Except for a few trolls or stirrers, almost everyone who owns this thread agrees with you.
The question you raise in your latest post is the difficult one.
We know what you say is correct. The career senior police officers who are trying to sell NPAS are acting now just like politicians, but it still surprises me that they are prepared to twist and turn and use political-speak to say half-truths and even lie about air support effectiveness. It may be borne partly of limited knowledge of how air support works - the only qualification in common that the names I see as senior NPAS postholders have seems to be no significant previous experience of air support.
But how do we raise this and where, so that it has any chance of changing things? Universal mediocrity of air support is on its way. Countless hours of wasted and pointless transits to wave an aerial police flag over a cold crime scene.
It may be that we should at least try to do something (in order to be able to say that at least we tried), but I regretfully doubt that we coal face (or ex) workers will be listened to.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
With an amount of units forming NPAS come April 1st, how will the staff of those units fair when other units close down in later years? Will the staff of the units being closed later be the only ones up for redundancy if no posts are available, or will everyone already part of NPAS be in the pot?
If it is the latter, does that mean the staff from the founding units will have to fight for their jobs perhaps up to 5 times over 3 years?
If it is the latter, does that mean the staff from the founding units will have to fight for their jobs perhaps up to 5 times over 3 years?
Helinut
Thanks for your support! I guess it comes under the heading of Covering Fire, ( See earlier ).
I guess the best that can be done is this. :- Don't miss any opportunity to bring to the attention of your local Media, local Councillors, Local MP's, the local Police Authority, your fears about the emansculation of their local Air support capability. Do they really understand the likely long term effects of what is proposed?
Give it to them in plain language, - as a professional Air Support practitioner. So far they have had the smoke & mirrors version, - the art of Political correctness. the public appreciate being told the truth, - What it is!
Tell em!
tigerfish.
I guess the best that can be done is this. :- Don't miss any opportunity to bring to the attention of your local Media, local Councillors, Local MP's, the local Police Authority, your fears about the emansculation of their local Air support capability. Do they really understand the likely long term effects of what is proposed?
Give it to them in plain language, - as a professional Air Support practitioner. So far they have had the smoke & mirrors version, - the art of Political correctness. the public appreciate being told the truth, - What it is!
Tell em!
tigerfish.